to not know how to respond

[strawberrypip]

hello,

I recently got in touch with my biological father again. We spoke on the phone.

Quick background - him and my mum were in their early 20s, not in a relationship and didn't know each other fantastically well but knew of the other through their friends. I was conceived on one night they spent together. He decided he wanted no involvement as he was in his words "having the time of his life" and "did not want to bring up a baby with someone he didn't really know".

He also said by the time he found out (my mum was about 5 months gone) there was nothing he could do anyway. I'm assuming he meant abortion/adoption conversations etc. and he said that what was he supposed to do, he had no way of knowing that could of happened. I said well, to be fair, you and my mum must of known when you were having unprotected sex that it was a possibility and he replied saying well millions of people do that so that's not really a good point strawberrypip.

The guy now wants to try and build a relationship with me and my daughter but I feel like he's not acknowledged anything? I'm also a bit gobsmacked by the millions of people do it so he doesn't really have anything to feel bad about comment...

I don't really know what to say

My mum has always felt guilty I think. The situation of course wasn't ideal but I know it is doable. A friend of mine found himself in this situation 3 years ago, at 22. Had just met a girl, she was pregnant within a month. He has stood by the child even though he is not in a relationship with the mother. So I think this is probably also why his excuses don't really wash with me.

There you are then. You say your mum feels a bit guilty about the way you came into then world. Your dad clearly doesn't. Your mum made up for your, er, disorganised entry into the world by being a responsible mum once you WERE here, always there for you (I assume?). Your dad didn't. It's YOU who sought HIM out. And he's STILL making excuses.

The way I see it, will he bring more happiness to your life, or just bad feeling? From what you've said, if I were you, I would just acknowledge that he doesn't seem to be the person you would have hoped he'd be. He's not matured, or had an epiphany and become responsible. I know in this situation, my husband would have at least apologised for not being there when you were a child. He was a bit immature in his youth but I think he would have stepped up anyway.

As others have pointed out, that is NO reflection on you, as he didn't even know you. It's no reflection on your mum either, as he didn't know her either! If it were me I think I'd just leave it, unless you need to stay in contact for things like medical history reasons.

I mean ffs don’t most women who sleep with someone hope it might develope into more?! I don’t know how people are suggesting that means she trapped him?! He didn’t use protection, he wasn’t trapped

No, he wasn't trapped unless the OP's mum told him that she was on the pill when she wasn't (and I assume that's not the case) and it's also fine to sleep with someone just becuase you hope it might develop into something more. But "something more" doesn't usually mean wishing for a baby 9 months later, does it? I means starting an actual relationship, going on dates, and eventually a long time later, settling down together. There HAS to be an acknowledgement that responsibility for contraception, particularly when you aren't in a steady relationship with someone, falls to both parties. OP has already said that her mum feels guilty about that. Her dad doesn't. He's a twat, and no-one would choose a twat for a dad.

I'm just struggling a bit to see how we can move forward in the way he is suggesting because i am having a hard time getting past his attitude.

You can't. You know in your heart that what you've found is a selfish twat of a man. He only parented his other children because there was a woman in the picture making it easy for him and at that point, he wanted to be settled in a family instead of partying. All about him.

You know too that if you did try and look past what you've seen and 'build a relationship' - it won't be a healing or pleasant experience for you, or even a real relationship, because this is just more of the same - all about him. He now wants to tick the box of 'doing the right thing' now you're usefully an adult who doesn't actually need anything. The small things you've already 'asked' - essentially, for an explanation of his utterly shit actions - has already been brushed off. There will be more, endless brushoffs to come. He's not worth it. He really isn't. I'd think VERY carefully about introducing this non-father into your DD's life as a grandad, for sure.

BUT - naturally you're torn. He's your father, will you regret it? Honestly, I think you'll regret it more if you allow this stupendously selfish, thoughtless man to elbow his way in, rewrite your narrative, and pop you into a bit-place in his own family.

I would probably reply along the lines of 'Sorry, I don't actually think I want to take this relationship any further. Your justifications for the way you treated my mother tell me a lot about your character, as well as telling me what kind of relationship me and my DD would be likely to have with you. What you did wasn't ok, if you genuinely don't think that, you're not the kind of person I'd want my father to be.'

@Pinkdelight3 I have already acknowledged that my mum was responsible as well but her character hardly needs a dressing down when she stood by that responsibility.

I dont understand that argument against my mum at all. what do you want me to do? be angry at her for not having an abortion? be mad at her for standing by me? she knows she was stupid and naive. she has made up for it and then some by being the wonderful mother she is.

he, on the other hand, nearly 26 years later is still trying to cover his sorry arse by claiming he was "young". I had my daughter at the same age. it's not young imo and it's a bullshit excuse, just like giving a false address after you've had unprotected sex with someone. his actions and choices are his responsibility and his alone.

OP, where were this man's parents in all of this? Are they aware of your existence? I would hate to think that any 24 year old of mine got someone pregnant and then didn't step up and be a father in SOME way, even if it was just to provide monetary support if that's the mother's preference. If they were around, knew about the situation, and didn't encourage some kind of relationship so they could forge a grandparently one with you then they are also to blame here, I think. I know it wasn't ideal circumstances but there are plenty of people who ARE in settled relationships and who have a baby together, and then later split up, and most grandparents would want to keep that relationship with their grandchild up.

@YoniAndGuy thank you. I think you've articulated it pretty perfectly sadly :(

The excuses don’t wash with me. I know two men who became parents in their teens (so much younger than your Dad at 24!). One of them became a Father after a brief fling, she didn’t tell him until she was 8 months pregnant and she turned up at the door with a huge bump. He said he wanted nothing to with it and slammed the door in her face but she contacted him when the baby was born and he changed his mind immediately once he saw the photo. He knew the baby was his and he had to be in his life. He was 18 so six years younger than your Dad and he has 50:50 contact with his son. Another guy actually had two children to two women by the time he was 19. Looks awful on paper but he’s always been in his children’s lives and sees them 50% of the time too, he’s a great Dad by all accounts.

Your Dad was 24. It’s just not a great excuse to say he was too young for the responsibility at all. He didn’t want to be with your Mum, fine but he still should have showed up for you. The initial shock and fear is normal and fine but he could have got in contact at any point over the years and just hasn’t even tried to. He’s now trying to make excuses for his behaviour rather than apologising and admitting he was wrong. I’d give him a wide berth personally.

yes his whole family knew. they said he was their duty and they had to stand by him as he was their concern.

I can't see how we can move forward without him acknowledging the choice he made

But he has acknowledged it, he's been very blunt about all of it from the sounds of it and told yuo the truth.

@Apollo3 acknowledging, as in, being accepting and understanding of the anguish he caused by making the choice he did. he doesn't care to - he has so far just looked at it from his point of view and thrown excuse after excuse.

yes his whole family knew. they said he was their duty and they had to stand by him as he was their concern.

I guess that explains why he turned out so selfish and irresponsible then. For me this would just cement my doubts about forging ahead with a relationship. None of them sound pleasant. Think carefully about what it would add to your life beyond what you already have, because there is a risk that it could make you unhappy if you try and have a relationshp with people who don't have the same mindset as you and your family.

This man has treated you badly your whole life. He has treated your mum terribly and when reconnected to you has made no reference to any remorse on his part, he hasn’t changed. He is a selfish person.

You have the power to stop him and his family, (who only stood by him as he was their concern - disregarding a child (you) in the process) from ever being near your daughter. This isn’t depriving her, this is giving her a better life away from them, he hasn’t made you a priority in his life, why do you think he will treat your daughter any better. He won’t and I’m sorry that he has treated you all this way.

I agree with your partner and brother “sack him off” I am so sorry you are going through this. Wholeheartedly agree with @YoniAndGuy. Hope you have a great Christmas with your daughter.

I think you need to protect yourself and leave him be. He sounds like he is going to cause you a world of pain. To him he probably doesn't care to even recognize what he did wrong. He probably thinks he was great to 4 of his kids so he is happy with that. You are never going to get a healthy relationship from him. Right at this point you want acknowledgement about the past and he won't give you that. So where do you think the future is going? Sorry op, think long and hard before pursuing this.

Don't believe for a second that man has been a decent father.

He took no responsibility then and he's taking no responsibility now.
He's got another child similar age to you, so he didn't learn anything from what happened with your mum.
My dad is similar unfortunately and it is hard.
But think if being in contact is actually adding anything to your life? Can say you don't want to deprive your child with contact from their family. I'd good family were interested they would have been in touch, they've made their position clear.
Do what's best for you, not what you feel guilted into.

I think he has acknowledged it, just not in the way you wanted. How can he say anything else if it's the truth? He's acknowledging the person he was then, unpalatable as it may be. He's telling you that he grew up and made the best of it with his future children and would like to get to know you.

It's hurtful to you, as you want him to have good reason or regret. But you can't change who he was. You just have to decide if you want to get to know who he is now.

acknowledging, as in, being accepting and understanding of the anguish he caused by making the choice he did. he doesn't care to - he has so far just looked at it from his point of view and thrown excuse after excuse

Well, from his point of view, he didn't want to be a father at that point, so he wasn't. And he's not wrong that a lot of people make that choice.
It was his choice to make, same as it was your mothers choice to make to have a child alone. They made their choices and that's just how it is.

I think you were expecting too much, to be honest. You want him to feel bad for what he did to you, but he doesn't.

I was in a similar situation. Tried to make some kind of relationship, but like your bio father, mine didn't seem to feel any guilt or any feeling of letting me down. It rumbled along for a year, then totally fizzled out. He just wasn't or couldn't be what I wanted / needed him to be. It was a wake up call for me. Took the attitude that he hadn't been around so I wasn't missing anything.

@Apollo3 right. so, my whole point of this post, is to wonder why he now expects a relationship to be able to develop without anything from his side or any like of acceptance of what he did. I dont think I'm the one expecting too much.

*kind

@strawberrypip it wasn't an argument against your mum. I said that she stepped up and took responsibility and he didn't. no implication that you need to be angry at her. I'm just trying to point out the futility of being angry at him. He didn't seek you out, you went to find him and are angry at him for covering his sorry arse with what you see as excuses but what he sees as his truth - and in fairness lots of people were (and still are) having unprotected ONS and not taking responsibility for it either with emergency contraception etc or by taking care of the DC, so it's not like his truth is unfounded in reality. Lots of men don't step up in these situations and he's justified that to himself and feels his parenting since makes up for it. I'm not saying he's right, but I'm saying you're on a hiding to nothing thinking he'll be a good guy after all these years and say the right things. You know who he is already from his actions and his words are meaningless. Either draw a line and build a relationship with him from here based on who he is, or reframe him as a sperm donor and close the door on him. Even if he said sorry, he wouldn't mean it. He's not sorry and he stands by his decision to not do anything.

Some people only see things from their point of view , can't put themselves in anyone else's shoes , nothing is ever their fault . It sounds like he is one of these people. He expects a relationship because he is your bio dad and believes he has that right by the sound of it .

And I don't know that he does expect a relationship - from what you've said, that just sounds like something he'd say to (again) think the best of himself. But if he wanted a relationship, he'd have come to you for one.

@Pinkdelight3 I think my decision has pretty much been made really, from reading on here others in similar situations didnt work out and from having my eyes well and truly opened to he obviously hasn't changed that much

I will probably just not contact him and if/when he calls again and asks about meeting I will be honest and say I dont think I can forget the last 25 years and that its foolish to believe we can based on the attitude he has towards it.

If he had said what he did was shitty, he just didn't want the responsibility etc you might have some inclination to pursue a relationship with him.

But telling you what a great dad he is now is of little use to you.

I wouldn't actively pursue things. If he wants it, let him drive it.

Sadly I think you might find he just can't be bothered.

You can hold your head high, knowing your mother was 2 parents to you and sounds like you had a lovely upbringing.

Focus on that and your own family now.