OH refusing Xmas plan change

[lamby12]

I think OH is being selfish and childish - is he?

We were always going to have Xmas day at our house, for one reason or another we've never been at home or not having major renovations etc so we said since last year we'd have this Xmas at home and host for my parents, his parents and any other family. We have a 2yo.

MIL & FIL decided last month they wouldn't be coming. They are boderline vulnerable and have been shielding throughout. My grandma would usually be with relatives aboard (she alternates each year) but she's in the equation with us this year due to restrictions. She's not bothered about Covid, says she might not be around much longer anyway (she's been saying that for 10+ years).

So it's now us, my parents and grandma on Xmas day (3 households) nobody's done much prep re food and we're taking it all very relaxed this year due to the uncertainty.

My mum suggested yesterday they'd feel more comfortable re grandma if we came to them as their house is considerably bigger with lots more socialising space, so more scope to naturally distance. She also knows OH is working flat out up to Xmas as a key worker, we haven't done any food shopping yet, we're tight on money and I'm knackered from being on my own with a toddler all the time. So all that combined she is trying to be helpful and relieve any pressure of us hosting.

I said great idea. OH flew off the handle, poking holes in the science of whether more space is safer, being argumentative about it, calling them stupid for suggesting it (all this just said to me). Acting like they're doing something malicious 'I've been looking forward to Xmas at home and they throw this in at the last minute' type ranting.

Saying he's not going?!? The decision hasn't even been made it was just discussion, not expected to be heated discussion.

I don't know if their science about space is right but if it makes them feel more comfortable who cares? They do everything for us. They are also offering to host coming from a nice place. Oh and I'm pregnant, so I'm bloody knackered and would love to not cook etc.

Should add, we're at home just us Boxing Day and I've offered to cook mini Xmas dinner #2 with OHs fave bits, so that will be our day at home if that's what he wants.

His reaction was so angry and nasty about my parents I told him he's a selfish and needs to take a long hard look at himself. All he ever gives a damn about is what he wants to do. Normally we all just go along with his preference but why should we? He's no reasons other than he'd prefer it. Who the hell at this time of Covid suggests NOT coming to Xmas day because of what house were at. Who cares?

AIBU to tell him he's a selfish ?

@timeforanewstart

Thank you - you've got it spot on.

The Christmas issue aside - you have a big problem here.
You are married to someone who cannot / will not tolerate things not playing out “his way” - who when it suits him, can be relaxed and “let’s just see” but when he is challenged or put in a position where he feels his choice has been removed, reacts with real venom, spite and selfishness.

It is totally normal to be a bit peeved or frustrated at someone changing plans last minute (I realise you didn’t do that - just wanted a discussion) but even so, if you had changed the plans it would be reasonable and normal for him to have a bit of the hump (as we probably all would) and feel a bit put out - but it’s not reasonable or normal to verbally berate the other person, make threats to ruin the whole thing or launch into a tirade against innocent bystanders (your parents).

Honestly he sounds absolutely awful - I realise he will have good points, everyone has their good and bad moments) but it sounds like this is his default setting when it comes to not getting his own way. You’re set up for a life of compromise on your part or arguments and sulking / vitriol when you refuse to compromise. Not a good place to be.

In your shoes I would wait until he is approachable (should’ve have to!) and I would very calmly point out that no decision had been made but that the more you think about it the more sense it makes space wise and that actually no I don’t feel like prepping and cooking Xmas dinner for 5 adults and a child and that I will be going to my parents and you are welcome to come but if you choose not to then I don’t want to hear anymore about it.

I would conclude by saying your behaviour has been appalling and you need to urgently work on your ability to consider other people’s needs along with your own and that our lives WILL NOT be determined by one persons wants. This is not a dictatorship.

And then his reaction would determine if I saw a future with him or not

Your DM can take responsibility for cooking in your house. She can buy the food and pre-prepare it if you're too tired to cook.

Eh? Why can't the DH do this?

I can see why he's disappointed, and as a one off I'd say go with the original plan BUT this sounds a toddler tantrum because he always gets his own way and I think you have a much bigger problem.

You need to stop being so easy going, going forward and see what his reaction is like when you even up the decisions to 50/50. He might learn that he needs to compromise or it may become more apparent that he has abusive tendencies, but either way you need to find out by being less easy going in the future

@StockTakeAndWatermelons

There are so many people facing disappointing last minute plans for Christmas. Many of whom manage to do so without throwing a tantrum and being so awful to the people they are meant to love the most.

Actually many of them did manage not throw a tantrum. I tantrummed all day on Sunday. On Monday I sorted out what needed to be rearranged.

Give him a day to get used to the idea OP. Give him the pros to both of you (but especially you). Then if he still doesn't want to consider, he's being an arse.

didn't manage not to throw a tantrum

@Faultymain5 do you normally get your own way all the time?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want Christmas at home and to be upset if that's taken away once he was looking forward to it (No excuse for being vile though.)

That said, he should absolutely be prepared to do the heaps of work that go with hosting!

[quote Kalula]@ThelmaNotLouise

She is not allowed to have Christmas with her parents. Everything has to be his way or the highway.

He SHOUTS her down into submission and silences her when she basically says to him she needs help.

He doesn't care about the stress, her health, or the health of his unborn child. He does not respect her feelings or want to do anything to lighten the load for the woman who is carrying his child.

He makes threats that he will separate the family on Christmas Day.

Ummmm....... what about that, does not scream narcissistic abuser, in neon flashing lights?

Yes, people, myself included, can be to quick to say 'LTB' and all that, but this, this is clear as day. There is a selfish man who does nothing to help his pregnant partner, makes sure she does everything his way, doesn't see how exhausted she is, doesn't do anything to lighten the load (unlike my father, and my DH who both did most of the Christmas dinners when mum/I were pregnant, because that's what good caring fathers/husbands are supposed to do), and when she rhetorically says to him 'I need help, I can't do this on my own', he shouts her down, silences her, and lays down the law. I must be reading this in the Twilight Zone because how is her OH not abusive?[/quote]
He's not said she can't have Christmas with her parents at all - he's said he wants to stay at home, like he thought was happening.

Also, from OP just now: my mum has got him loads of pressies, does a stocking for him like he's a kid, has baked him loads of his fave Xmas bits that his mum usually does.

That doesn't sound like them going for Christmas is a "suggestion". This has been planned behind his back.

I'm all for calling out abusers, but this man is not one.

Also, from OP just now: my mum has got him loads of pressies, does a stocking for him like he's a kid, has baked him loads of his fave Xmas bits that his mum usually does.

That doesn't sound like them going for Christmas is a "suggestion". This has been planned behind his back.

I didn't realise that a stocking present and baked goods couldn't be transported to the OP's house and are therefore evidence of this being planned behind his back.

I mean, that's a leap and a half.

OP wrote:

I'm not sure about narasasistic abuser but he always gets his own way and the issue is he's happy to put me in a horrible position i.e go without me (that's not easy for anyone to do with DC, I'd feel like shit) or go along with my way.

Don't know about anyone else, but personally I'm sick and tired of the hackneyed, done-to-death, cavalier diagnoses of 'Narcissist'. These days every second person claims to know one, and every third person seems competent to diagnose one as well. Who'd have guessed it's actually a complex and very rare condition?

I'm not blaming him for not wanting to spend Christmas with his in-laws rather than at home (neither would I). I blame him for his attitude. 'Abuser' he likely isn't, even if he does have a tendency to want his own way all the time. What he is, is a stubborn, immoveable, selfish man who's clearly bought into the misogynistic assumption of 'wife-work' and expects his exhausted, pregnant wife will wait on him hand and foot and take on all the labour of Christmas. Fuck that.

LTB? Maybe - for this one day. I'm not at all sure I'd see Christmas with my parents as being in a 'horrible position' in the circumstances. It might even be the fastest way of bringing him to heel and showing him how you won't accept being treated in the future. Perhaps he hasn't also paused to consider that if he'd been willing to get off his backside in the first instance, perhaps Christmas with the DPs wouldn't even look so appealing to you as it does right now. It would do no harm at all to point this out.

*That doesn't sound like them going for Christmas is a "suggestion". This has been planned behind his back"
I agree and maybe he had some suspicions that were confirmed yesterday.

akittencalledjesus That's true, it just sounds like a bit of a drip-feed. Lots of nice stuff being planned to appease him for the last-minute venue switch?

I’m in a similar position but no children and I’m on the OH side of things. I’m gutted that Xmas day is now going to spent driving to PIL and having our millionth mediocre Xmas dinner with them then drive home when actually I would prefer to stay home for once and not be a guest .

I tried to explain my viewpoint and if I really insisted we would have stayed here. But then I’d have upset MIL and and OH who I had to strongarm into staying which is just bloody depressing.

@ThelmaNotLouise she was going to bring the stocking, baked stuff etc. Was always the plan. Point of saying that was she goes above and beyond to pander to him and make him feel nice. We all do. He's interpreted the last minute change SUGGESTION as an attack on him, it was supposed to help him out too, inevitably he'll help me with some hoovering in the morning (he's not a total tool) and will mind DC while I start the cooking. Washing up, helping me tidy after, etc. So my mum thought it would be a pressure of him too. He's doesn't see it that way but the point is this is not some long hatched plan to move his Xmas - we really don't care that much?!?

@ThelmaNotLouise Her parents were going to theirs, so of course she'd already have baked those things to take to their home! It doesn't mean it was planned! It simply means the parents had planned to go to OP's house, bought the presents/stockings etc ready to bring, but after grandma said something, and her mum obviously saw she was struggling, changed their mind. The presents, stockings etc would have clearly been taken to whichever house they went to.

If a man who ignores the cry for help from his partner, who bullies and shouts her down, won't listen to her, says nasty things to her about her and her parents while he is shouting at her isn't abusive to you, well, I'd just say you have a very different definition of abusive to me. Abuse isn't just physical. It is also neglect, it is also emotional, verbal. What they OP describes most definitely comes under abuse by any definition if you ask a professional. It might be normal to you to not allow your partner any say, to shout her down and verbally abuse her - but it's not to me. Check with any Women's Aid. It is the very definition of abuse.

*are therefore evidence of this being planned behind his back.

I mean, that's a leap and a half.*

Exactly!

Also, i would be really annoyed to know my OH said “great idea” about something before checking with me because then if you say after discussion “no thank you” as a couple it’s obvious who said no and it breeds resentment!

Ok some of you guys are getting carried away that this was some elaborate conspiracy theory to 'switch venue' at the last minute. I'm not going to explain again that this was a last minute suggestion from my mum to help us out (as she saw it!) there really has been no behind his back conspiracy, none of us have had the time of effort for that sort of rubbish!

Sorry, cross-posted with OP.

Oh and lastly my MIL also goes above and beyond to make me feel welcome, she is lovely but it’s also suffocating .

OP where do you normally have Christmas?

This change is just because her parents have a bigger house and are richer. Which is feck all to do with Covid

What a weird interpretation. When we had small children we also had less space than either of our sets of parents who each used to host their DC/GDC at Christmas. Now our kids are grown up, we regularly host the generations either side.

At some point in the future probably our kids will take that on. Its nothing to do with one generation trying to brag about their "riches" and entirely about families helping each other in the way they can at the time in question.

How dare his MIL bake him nice treats because he can't see his parents at Christmas. It must be a conspiracy to get him to agree to his MIL hosting, not just a kind gesture, right?

And as the OP confirmed, these items would have been brought over to the OP's house. Who'd have thought that possible? It's a Christmas miracle.

The OP's mum sounds like a very kind-hearted person considering everyone: the elderly relative, her pregnant DD and her keyworker son in law.

Also, i would be really annoyed to know my OH said “great idea” about something before checking with me

Why, is the OP not entitled to her own thoughts and opinions unless agreed to by her husband? Are we living in the 1950s?

I mean, they can decide to turn down the offer and the OP would still think it was a good idea. And rightfully so.