Neighbours beat up my mother in law- what should we do?

[LangClegTheBeardedVulture]

Posting for traffic.

My MIL has lived in her home for around 10 years. Semi detached bungalow in a cul-de-sac.

Last year a young couple moved into the adjoining house and had a baby. My MIL has been complaining about them being noisy for a while and the police have been involved (in what capacity I don’t really know).

My MIL is convinced this couple want to drive her from her house so they can buy it and knock through as the guy’s a builder.

Anyway, this situation has been going on for a while and has been getting steadily worse, especially during lockdown; MIL lives on her own and we haven’t been able to visit, neither have her 2 sisters.

Yesterday, my MIL went out and came home to find a garden ornament she had on her front lawn had been broken; she blamed the neighbour and began throwing bits of it into their garden in a temper. The guy came out and they started shouting at each other and at some point my MIL hit him.

He then hit her back and two women came out of his house and also joined in and they beat her up.

When the police came they asked the man if he wanted to press charges as MIL started the fight. She is about 5ft tall and 71 years old and has been beaten black and blue- DH has taken photos of her injuries.

However, I think some of the previous incidents with the neighbour may not be quite as she has described. She may be experiencing some cognitive decline which lockdown has exacerbated- but as we don’t see her often it is hard to be sure. We’ve not noticed any bad behaviour from those neighbours when we’ve been at her house but she says it’s because they know we’re there so they keep quiet. She’s also not always the easiest woman to be around, she is stubborn and can be a very black and white thinker- she’s had various disputes with other neighbours about parking and other matters which are pretty trivial and I’d probably have just let go.

We do not want this situation to escalate and feel the best thing would be for her to sell the house and move, either closer to us or closer to her younger sisters- she, understandably, doesn’t want to be driven from her home by these people. It’s hard for DH to keep an eye on her as he can’t drive and there is no one else who can help as she is NC with her daughter and her sisters are 100 miles away. I’m getting very worried about her safety and mental health. If we had a spare room she’d be welcome to live with us, at least for a while, but that isn’t a possibility atm.

I’m just looking for advice on how best to help with the situation. Short term, we want her to feel safe, in the long term we want to make sure she’s close to family so she’s less isolated and we can step in and help. We also don’t want this situation to escalate further.
Any and all advice welcome. DH is really worried.

@Yohoheaveho

Good luck reasoning with someone who when they were young was difficult and who now has paranoid delusions.... the only way to avoid these awful situations is for people to move into suitable accommodation before they develop cognitive issues

Good luck with that, especially if the person doesn't want to.

My mother was in her late 70s when she started picking arguments with neighbours like that. It came to a head when she kept showing me her bruises and saying my Dad was beating her up. I rushed round there one night and he was cowering on the stairs while she had a knife on him. The bruises on her arms were where he had tried to hold her away. I called her GP for advice the next day and they sent someone round almost immediately. She was on tablets for a while which helped but then declined and had to go into a care home after a spell in hospital. She never accepted that there was anything wrong with her and was often violent to the staff. The dementia suggestion does ring true to me.

If you only have her word for what happened (and the bit about 'pressing charges' makes it sound like fiction) you need to speak to either the neighbours or the police to find out what really happened. It's possible that the police weren't there at all.

I wouldn't place too much store on what the police have done. It's hardly uncommon for the police to get it wrong/ take the wrong side in a dispute.

I suspect it's pretty uncommon for the police to take the side of three or four young people against one old lady in her 70s in a punch-up.

I have a neighbour who constantly makes malicious complaints. Believe me it is a nightmare to live next to someone like that.
Although its obvious something is wrong mentally all sympathy goes as they can be truely visicous. People like that ruin lives and I feel sorry for her neighbours.

Okay, I’ve read all of your responses so far, and thank you. Your perspectives are all welcome and I’m trying to keep an open mind about the situation. Sorry, this post is going to be loooooong.

I am really sorry for the people who have gone through similar (either with a family member who is unwell or those who have suffered at the hands of a neighbour). This is a complicated and difficult situation and I am completely out of my depth, as is DH. Thank you to those who’ve shown sympathy.

DH photographed her bruises at our home (she drove to us)- big bruises on her chest and arms. I believe she could have been attacked, but as others have pointed out, older people bruise easily and she could have fallen if the man pushed her away. The women who attacked her may have been holding her back. I don’t know, and until I can speak to people who were there I’ve only got what MIL has told DH. I don’t know who called the police.

To the people suggesting CCTV or a Ring cam: This is something we’ll be looking into - we’d like something we can monitor so we can try to figure out what’s going on with her mental health and see if she will consider moving.

My DH and I definitely want her to move, but I don’t think she’d agree to supported accommodation and she’s already said she wouldn’t want to move in with us as she likes her own space (and I agree she’d probably be a nightmare to live with). Moving in with us also isn’t possible now as we don’t have the space, but we are in the process of moving to a bigger house. As mentioned before, she’s also very stubborn and getting her to “give in” and move will be very challenging as she sees it as the neighbours driving her from her home.

Is it possible to get some kind of noise detectors so we can try to hear what she says she’s hearing? From what she’s described, it’s not just regular family noises like the baby crying, but if we can’t come up with evidence they’re actually being a nuisance to her then she might be experiencing some kind of auditory hallucinations- is this something that can happen in dementia? I don’t want to just not believe her though- am trying to keep an open mind to all possibilities.

MIL doesn’t have carers and lives independently- apart from some arthritis she doesn’t have anything physically wrong with her. Mentally, she has had depression for a long time, it’s likely got a lot worse during lockdown, and I do think she needs to be assessed.

I agree with the people who said the idea the neighbours want to knock the houses together is extremely unlikely. Will the police disclose any information to us regards the previous incidents they’ve been called out to, as I would like to get a fuller picture of what’s going on from people who aren’t emotionally invested.

We know she doesn’t have proof of who broke the ornament and she acted unreasonably by throwing the bits and hitting the man. However if she has got some kind of delusion they’re out to get her, then it’s logical why she came to the conclusion they broke it.

To be clear, I don’t know what she threw the broken object at- she says she threw the bits into their garden, not at the house or a person. I have never known her to pick a physical fight before. I’m not trying to excuse her behaviour, she was clearly out of control and she definitely started this confrontation.

I also never said she was a timid woman- she’s not at all! However, she is vulnerable- she’s elderly, isolated and possibly mentally ill.

I will be speaking with Age Concern as well to see if they can help in any way.

It’s fair to say MIL doesn’t take responsibility for the situations she finds herself in. She has lived a life which has seen a lot of conflict. She had a very bad relationship with her own mother (also not an easy or forgiving woman) and she’s been acrimoniously divorced twice from abusive husbands. Her mum also had dementia which went undiagnosed for a long time.

My SIL is the much older and only sibling to my DH; she and MIL have had an incredibly fractious relationship since SIL was a teen. There are periods of NC, followed be reconciliation and then another fallout. SIL and MIL have similar personalities, which doesn’t help- both very strong willed and loathe to admit it when they’re wrong. SIL is can be inconsiderate and MIL is very intolerant of other people’s flaws . SIL is not a and can also be unreasonable and bizarre. The NC thing is kind of mutual, although there’s some discussion going on of an olive branch and reaching out. It won’t last and is likely being fuelled by “it’s Christmas” bollocks.

MIL moved from her home town (100 miles away from where we are now, FIL and her sisters still live there) to her current home, which is about 30 mins away from us, in order to be closer to her DGC. DH is not emotionally close with either of his parents, but their relationships are amicable. DH hates conflict and would go out of his way to avoid it, he’s highly anxious and this is basically his worst nightmare. The fact he can’t drive also means he isn’t able to visit her easily on his own. He feels really powerless, guilty and like a shit son.

I am wary of approaching the neighbours for a couple of reasons, although I completely understand why many of you suggested it. We are strangers to one another and I don’t know how they’d react to me knocking on the door seeing as how bad things have gotten.

I also don’t want to fuel my MIL’s paranoia that people are out to get her- I’m one of the few people she trusts and there’s a chance she could think I was taking sides with the neighbours if she saw me speaking to them- as I mentioned, she is a very black and white thinker and she often struggles with seeing things from other people’s points of view. She can be a very difficult person, and she does seem to think the worst of people’s motives- with the exception, it seems, of me and DH. She has few friends.

The idea she could rent her house and then move and rent somewhere closer to family is a good one (Gods know what she’d be like as a landlady though!) If she moved near to her sisters she’d be in a cheaper area (me and DH live in an expensive city)

The neighbour did not want to press charges. And I don’t think it would help to de-escalate this situation by MIL pursuing a criminal complaint either.

@snakesandknives
The situation you described is the kind of thing I am worried will happen if we don’t get something sorted out soon. MIL was initially quite positive about this couple when they moved in and seemed to like them- they introduced themselves and from what she told me they seemed pleasant and normal people.

Sorry, this post is going to be loooooong
No need to apologise you did a great job with the paragraphs so your post is totally readable 😊

Bruises on her arms and chest do sound more like she has been restrained than “beaten up”. Punching someone on the arms would be a strange way to have a fist fight.

on your question of monitoring, there are really good cameras now that also pick up sound for little money - pet cams or nanny cams you might see them listed as - but obviously MIL would have to want this

Sounds like an urgent assessment of her mental health capacity is required, social services and GP can help with this. For yourselves, speaking to your local carers uk branch could give you good advice. You don't have to be the official carers and you are as the nearest family the carers in a sense. If her capacity is good and the neighbours are not acting criminally, some councils have good neighbour mediation services.

They sound far more like bruises from a push (chest) and being held back (arms). Why should anyone, male or female, young or old just stand there and let someone attack them? It's more likely they ran out to restrain her.

If you want an easy life, your husband needs to learn to drive. Could you teach him?

If not, you could offer her choices. Anger management course then

• a move in with you
• sheltered accommodation
• a lodger

I wouldn't learn to drive unnecessarily, just notify social services

I would suggest investing in surveillance cameras and a decibel meter on a tablet or hooking it up to a computer, so you can look at the data. You may even be able to get a company to do this for a week or so if you’re not sure about doing it yourself.

You may find appointing a solicitor would be helpful: they could speak to the neighbours as a less invested party and present your concerns in such a way that you simply want to gather information, and work with the police to get the full story. In addition, they can use this information to work with the council and courts to determine if an independent arbitrator with Power if Attorney would be appropriate to help with her decisions. This means your DH won’t be dragged into conflict if decisions are made around sheltered accommodation, as he isn’t directly involved in the decision.

You may find - given your description of her personality - that she would be keener to move if she felt the neighbours wants her to stay for some purpose she disagrees with. Before that point, however, have a long term care plan in place so you are not directly responsible. She would most likely sell her house, but if it is rented, an independent arbitrator/POA would appoint a management company to take care of that.

The neighbour did not want to press charges. And I don’t think it would help to de-escalate this situation by MIL pursuing a criminal complaint either.

More likely the police asked the neighbour if they wanted to take it further and at this time they don't.

If she tries to press charges she may end up with a warning/caution as it is likely she is the one harassing them by constantly complaining to the police about them. Plus as they have a baby/toddler that child is considered more vulnerable than your MIL.

One of my former neighbours' found this out to her cost as she was causing trouble and only when I pointed out that she was endangering a toddler did all the local services kick in to deal with her. I should add the toddler's parents didn't raise any complaints.

Anyway if there is another incident the neighbours won't be given a choice in what the police do.

My df had vascular dementia, he was paranoid about the neighbours.

A relative of mine was the same when she was in the early stages of Alzheimer’s Disease. She believed her neighbours were banging on pipes to annoy her and that they were stealing her washing.

When my relative dropped something of hers on the pavement, a neighbour recognised it and kindly brought it to her door. In return, my relative swore at her and accused her of stealing it.

My relative started banging on her walls to get back at her neighbours for “banging on the pipes”. When a neighbour called round to have a word with her, she slapped his face.

My relative was reluctant to go into residential care, but she eventually agreed. Once she’d settled in, she seemed much calmer and happier than when she was living alone.

I’m not saying your MIL is the same, but I would encourage her to see her GP.

I'd try to have a quiet word with other people who live nearby. Surely they would have seen something, either from the latest incident or earlier ones.

Get CCTV, ensure the police stay involved (I’d be pressing charges) and maybe alert social services because of your MILs age.

None of them come across very well in this story though.

Arms and chest would indicate to me she was restrained and pushed away. It is not impossible she was punched in the chest or arm, but unlikely. And the fact it’s also nigh on impossible to believe three people beat the shit out of an old lady and the police said it was her fault as she threw the first punch

I think it is likely she’s very ill. Isolated and it’s excaberated, it’s all she’s got to think about, the neighbours, so she’s focused on everything they do.

Personally I’d call the police myself and say you’re worried about her, what happened, as she’s telling you one story that could not be true. I’d also get a doctor to assess her. Do it under the guise of she needs her bruises checked, especially as on the chest area. Then speak to her gp and explain it is likely she’s suffering from dementia and has got to the stage she physically attacked a neighbour.

My mother had auditory hallucinations with her vascular dementia. She was convinced my sister had twins and she could hear them crying all the time.

@VestaTilley

Get CCTV, ensure the police stay involved (I’d be pressing charges) and maybe alert social services because of your MILs age.

None of them come across very well in this story though.

Press charges against who? The mil? If she’s unwell that’s not going to be helpful. The neighbours? As the police didn’t give this option it appears she attacked and they just tried to stop it

In addition what are you going to do when an elderly lady comes at you ans starts hitting you. You can’t just stand and take it. You need to restrain her in some way. To try to stop it.

The fact she’s now physically assaulting people snd fhen lying they attacked her, is a really bad sign.

This is largely conjecture.

No one knows if this lady is cognitively impaired. Even if she is, she's still been assaulted.

I find it worrying how so many people are playing down her injuries as basically self inflicted...would you be happy to visit a relative in hospital or care home and find them black and blue?! I suspect not. So why is this different?

I'm a social worker for vulnerable adults.

I would call the police with her, so you have her consent and then ask the police for as much detail as possible. If possible, I would ask the neighbors for their side of the story. I would be very surprised about the police taking no action if several people have assaulted her, even if she started it. I would put her cctv up, with her agreement. I would try and increase my contact with her to look for evidence of cognitive decline, forgetting dates, appointments, phone calls etc. If this is the case, you need to start with her GP. If you think she is paranoid or has delusions, it's also her GP. They may refuse to see her without her consent, so tell them you are concerned she is unable to give informed consent. It could be worth contacting anti social behaviour team at the council, they may offer cameras etc. If she has got mental health problems or a cognitive impairment then you can contact adult safeguarding at the council.

Would she want to move near you? I would want to work out what is going on first. If she has no mental health/cognitive needs and she is just being unpleasant then I would want to stay out of it to some extent. Getting to your 70s doesn't suddenly mean you can treat other people badly. But it sounds like something else might be going on

There's no way that police came because three adults were beating the shit out of an old lady, and only asked the man present if he wanted to press charges 'because she started it'.

There's just no way!

CCTV is a must: however, as you say she seems to have dementia/Alzheimer’s and this could simply be her way of dealing with it. Some people turn quite vile even if they’ve been lovely their whole lives.
I would ask if you can have a mental health assessment, speak to age concern and SS, as well as the police (see if you can get the whole story).
Is there any way you could have her temporarily whilst you wait for these assements?

@Grenlei

This is largely conjecture.

No one knows if this lady is cognitively impaired. Even if she is, she's still been assaulted.

I find it worrying how so many people are playing down her injuries as basically self inflicted...would you be happy to visit a relative in hospital or care home and find them black and blue?! I suspect not. So why is this different?

No one would want that bit it doesn't mean that the neighbors are to blame either. They need to get to the bottom of this behavior and the best way to start os having her evaluated for vascular dementia

Unless the police turned up while it was all going on and witnessed anything, they will be relying on both sides versions of events.

We don't actually know if that is what they told MIL. The reality is some police aren't very interested in neighbour disputes (I speak as someone who was threatened by a neighbour and had my property damaged. The police never even sent anyone out!). Unless and until OP can speak to the police she won't be clear on what exactly they said. We also don't know how much they may have been influenced by the neighbours account or encouraged to see MIL as a mad old woman and the aggressor (ageism/ sexism wouldn't exactly be unheard of in the police...).

I think the advice given by Keha is pragmatic and sensible, although maybe speaking directly to the neighbours may not be a good idea especially if that risks your relationship with MIL.