To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?

[Planetzog]

From conversations I've had, and from what I've read on here, I think there's still loads of (understandable) confusion around the Christmas bubble concept. So household A might be meeting 2 other households between 23rd and 27th, perhaps lunch with household B on Christmas day, then drinks with household C on Boxing Day. But while households B and C both count A as one of their households, they don't know each other and have a different third household each - D and E. Sorry, complicated but can't think of a clearer way of describing what I mean.
Anyway, my point is that the repercussions of Christmas could end up being worse than expected as even more households get together over Christmas as they don't understand that the 3 households should be fixed? I've looked up the gov guidelines and they are not clear at all.

YABU - Everyone understands that Christmas bubbles are fixed with the same 3 households.

YANBU - People are choosing their own differing bubbles as described above.

Yes, *theinternetmakesmyeyesfeelsick I believe you can, as long as you stick to the general rules for your Tier - social distancing and the rule of 6 in Tier 2 but I'm not sure about other tiers.
I'm going for a socially distanced bike ride with a couple of friends on Dec 23rd but they don't count as part of my bubble as we will be outdoors all the time.

It is a crazy situation. Anyone who chooses to mix with multiple households over Christmas is just being incredibly selfish and stupid in my opinion.

We are just seeing DS, we haven't got anyone one else within 200 miles to see anyway

People realise what they want to realise.

The Christmas bubble rules are stupid, but not hard to understand.

Indeed how the virus works and is transmitted is not hard to understand either.

I'm past judging anyone and I understand that there are circumstances where going ahead with a Christmas bubble - or even bending the rule - is necessary and even fairly safe, if people follow self-isolation procedures.

What I find hard to take is anyone playing fast and loose, pretending they don't know what they can/should do or trying to find little loopholes everywhere, then pretending to be oh so shocked when the January shitshow hits.

[quote SoCrimeaRiver]@RedskyAtnight I'd agree (we're family A only meeting family B) but I can empathise with B and C if they realise this set-up leaves them disadvantaged because they're not "lead" family A.[/quote]
This is exactly the problem and why this is impossible to police. Every family will assume they are A so following the rules either misguidedly or will just claim ignorance on what everyone else in their bubble is up to.
Of course everyone should be forming their bubbles carefully and having discussions over who’s in and who’s out but unfortunately that’s not how some family dynamics work.
It would have been far simpler to have allowed for one other household to link for Xmas then there wouldn’t have been the danger of links forming, but I guess that would have been too unpopular.

How are the rules not clear? I’ve completely stopped watching and reading the news so I can only presume it’s the media making things seem confusing, which isn’t surprising. Watching the news is a total waste of time (IMO)

I havent voted as I think the truth is that everyone knows full well what the rules are but are choosing to do as they please.

@SpiderGwen somehow I doubt people who are going to mix more than three households will care about that. It will ultimately come down to a question of who is going to know.

I think virtually everyone understands - it’s not that hard - but some people are choosing not to understand.

@theinternetmakesmyeyesfeelsick

Please can somebody answer this one then. I get that I can only see two of my three children as we make one bubble of three and none of us can mix with other one. OR my 3 children can form a bubble of three and see noone else.

But - if we/they form a bubble as per the guidelines I'm not sure if I understand whether or not we/they can meet people from another household OUTSIDE and socially distanced over the Christmas period.

Could we, for example, all meet on Christmas day on our local beach and see other that way which would be 4 households but not an exclusive bubble

You can meet people outside of your bubble as per normal tier guidelines. Meeting people outside in a public space (e.g. your beach plan) is allowed at Tier 3, so that would be perfectly fine wherever you are. If you're (all) in Tier 2 or Tier 1, you could meet outside in someone's garden.

3 families, 3 bubbles and you can only mix with each other? If you mix 3 families on Christmas Day you are not supposed to mix with other people the other days.

3 families, one bubble, not 3 bubbles.

@Teakind

I think the bubble rules are very clear but some people are choosing to interpret them to suit what they want to do.

Exactly this. People pretending to be confused to get what they want.

@DailyPotion

Until I read it on here and actually thought about it, I thought that too! It doesn't affect me as I'll only be seeing my mum indoors and nobody else

I hadn't fully thought it through either, but it could affect you, if your mum also intends to play bridge or meet her sister and her family. I'm sure she's not, but as an example, it's made me realise it's probably almost impossible to manage.

It's a good point actually. She doesn't have a sister close by but might see single friends. I think they are sensible though and meet outside (and her local pubs etc (she's tier 2) seem to be quite hot on checking that people are same household/bubble if they go indoors anyway.

Everything is clear. Some idiots just choose to ignore the rules.

The bubble metaphor worked well in the beginning, self - contained and if it breaks, it breaks for all. Now we have bubbles of 150 in schools, childcare 'bubbles' vs support 'bubbles' and if a school bubble breaks not everyone in the bubble has to isolate. It's therefore lost any meaning. Add Christmas bubbles to the long list of others.

Our household (A) planned to have my brother (single B) and in laws (C) for Xmas.

Unfortunately in laws are also seeing SIL family (D), auntie and family (E) and their siblings (F and G). SIL will also be seeing her BIL family (H) and in laws (I).

But I can’t say anything because I’m being unreasonable not wanting to see them (whilst not seeing my own parents!!)

It will be interesting to see if Boris and his chums , and Rishi sunak who is known for his lavish summer parties will be sticking to the three household rule. I doubt it. I think allowing three households to mix during Xmas is a stupid idea but Boris probably wants to mix with numerous households himself and is therefore allowing it.

@theinternetmakesmyeyesfeelsick

Please can somebody answer this one then. I get that I can only see two of my three children as we make one bubble of three and none of us can mix with other one. OR my 3 children can form a bubble of three and see noone else.

But - if we/they form a bubble as per the guidelines I'm not sure if I understand whether or not we/they can meet people from another household OUTSIDE and socially distanced over the Christmas period.

Could we, for example, all meet on Christmas day on our local beach and see other that way which would be 4 households but not an exclusive bubble

You can see people outside as per your tier rules, up to the max of 6 people. So if it goes over 6 people you can't all meet up together, but 6 or under you can.

Many people are interpreting the guidance to suit themselves and using it to selfishly justify what they are doing.
Some people are visiting before 23rd to avoid traffic or staying later. Others are seeing more people than recommended as they either don’t understand or don’t care.

We are just staying as one household in a tier 2 area (fairly low risk as both adults WFH do Click & Collect only fo out for walks but have two children at two different secondary schools - neither seeing friends outside of school).
But mum late 70’s no care needs lives with brother who works in a supermarket (they are forever going shopping...for something to do every day or every other day supermarket, B&M, butchers, card-shop, Chemist, local Spar, newsagents etc etc. But because they don’t go to town centre and don’t buy much or stay too long they think they are ok and it doesn’t matter?!?
Sister goes round to mums 4 or 5 times a week (goes in doesn’t stay long about 20-30 minutes). Sometimes visits with 10 year old niece who still meets and goes to friends houses she is at school with them (so it doesn’t matter) and 18 year niece (who is at Uni and home for hols who sees sixth form friends but X and Y are ok as they are nice girls from clean homes!! She sometimes visits with my sister but also visits my mum additionally on her own. Sis and partner both going out to work and sis has taken my mum to cafe’s in the car and said they are from the same household.
MIL in a tier 3 area and already in a three household Christmas bubble with SIL and SIL’s partners parents. Although not sure SIL’s partners parents won’t be seeing their other adult children and young grandchildren just before or just after Christmas but they are staying with SIL Christmas day night.
We have decided not to see anyone over Christmas as its just easier and safer.

The rules should of just been everyone stay at home , only bubble with a single person or vulnerable person .

This bubbling up with 3 family's is unfair . What happens if you have more than 2 children how do you pick . Or which set of parents can you visit . Or siblings and inlaws .... the list can go on

It's awful.

What ever the rules are , they will be broken

We're alone this Christmas but I honestly do not believe everyone will not follow the rules on purpose. I thought it was you can meet 3 households inside at one time until someone corrected me. I then had a quick look at the website and thought each family could have a bubble of 3. Obviously this is incorrect.

I'm not thick. I know this virus is bloody shit, I guess people are dealing with it by directing anger and animosity towards others. Makes it less a scary when you can blame the stupid idiotic public, which obviously, does not include you.

I thought all other rules were suspended for the Christmas period so you can only see your 3 bubble inside or outside etc and cannot see anyone else AT ALL?

We are in wales which has reduced down to 2 households BUT a single adult/parent can join as part of a support bubble so FIL is coming - he lives alone. Apart from going to the supermarket or a walk in the woods he doesn’t leave his house. SIL (but a different dad) is also coming. So technically 3 households for Christmas but it’s still within the rules. Secondary aged DC have been off school since last Friday and primary DC since Wednesday so by Xmas Eve they will have been ‘isolating’ enough to be at minimal risk of having covid and passing it on. DH is WFH and although I’m in the office only 4 of us in a 3 story building so minimal risk there.
Hopefully we have done enough to minimize the risk between ourselves and won’t be meeting other family etc.

@BrieAndChilli

As I understand it, you can see other people in accordance with the tier rules that apply where you live.

The Christmas bubble rules are perfectly clear but people will use them to suit their own agenda regardless which is why the infection rates arent slowing down