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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?

178 replies

Planetzog · 18/12/2020 07:53

From conversations I've had, and from what I've read on here, I think there's still loads of (understandable) confusion around the Christmas bubble concept. So household A might be meeting 2 other households between 23rd and 27th, perhaps lunch with household B on Christmas day, then drinks with household C on Boxing Day. But while households B and C both count A as one of their households, they don't know each other and have a different third household each - D and E. Sorry, complicated but can't think of a clearer way of describing what I mean.
Anyway, my point is that the repercussions of Christmas could end up being worse than expected as even more households get together over Christmas as they don't understand that the 3 households should be fixed? I've looked up the gov guidelines and they are not clear at all.

YABU - Everyone understands that Christmas bubbles are fixed with the same 3 households.

YANBU - People are choosing their own differing bubbles as described above.

OP posts:
JustBumblingAlong · 18/12/2020 08:35

@plannit

I think that if households A, B and C are a bubble for household A but they see those households at different times say Christmas for B and Boxing Day for C - B can then have a household D after they've seen A as they never mixed with B!

It's complicated but not increasing their risk surely?

But household D then has a third household too making their bubble A, D and E and so on. It doesn’t increase the risk to the households you meet early on, but the household you meet last could be exposed to who knows how many other households if others in that chain have also introduced a different third.
FreeFallingFree · 18/12/2020 08:36

Yes, that's inevitable, I think, Planetzog SAGE said in mid November one day's relaxation would require 5 day's lockdown. It's not that Government don't know this, it's that they have decided it's worth going ahead in the understanding there will have to be a lockdown in new year to compensate. The argument, as far as I can tell, is they know many people would ignore the law if mixing was made illegal and normalising lawbreaking is not something they want to do.

TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 08:36

@plannit

I think that if households A, B and C are a bubble for household A but they see those households at different times say Christmas for B and Boxing Day for C - B can then have a household D after they've seen A as they never mixed with B!

It's complicated but not increasing their risk surely?

But if A has Covid, they have now potentially passed it to B,C and D.

And if D takes the same attitude and says they have only seen B, and they then see E and F...

It isn't just about individual risk, it is about spreading.

Nameoff · 18/12/2020 08:37

Iv tried to explain too, especially to my aunt, her son my cousin can’t go visiting his girlfriend and his family on Xmas. If he wants to she can’t come to dinner end off. My parents are in their 70s. Can’t chance it

Trousersareoverrated · 18/12/2020 08:40

DHs family think it’s fine to meet up with as many as people as they like in the 5 days as long as no more than 3 households at once. They will not be told otherwise and we are the awkward ones for saying we won’t meet up with them 🙄. They do know that it’s against the rules but are choosing misinterpret rather than just say they are not going to bother following them

BiarritzCrackers · 18/12/2020 08:46

This is absolutely happening, from conversations I've been having. The messaging in November should have emphasised the "exclusive bubble" element more, as people have taken the "see two other households bit" and not really grasped what it's meant to achieve.

So a married couple are seeing both her parents and his parents, but each set of parents aren't bothered about seeing each other (understandably), and are instead seeing their other children. Whose spouses are seeing their parents. So instead of bubbles, chains of interconnected households are happening.

RememberSelfCompassion · 18/12/2020 08:47

Ive got a family member who is a mgaistrate who hadn't quite clicked that if he saw me and my sisters family "before" Christmas with his partners family.... not only was that more than 3 households but also would mean my sister and I couldn't see anyone.

On the other side of the family Ive a relative who wants to see me xmas eve (which we are doing, will be our only indoor contact) but I know full well shes going onto another relative. In her eyes thats then 2 so she's okay. But that relative is also seeing one more 🤦‍♀️. I think its where we're having short daytime visits people arent realising theres a chain. So the relatives that arent seing me don't think of me as thier bubble even though a relative will be going between us.

These are all bright people. Im worried about the risk so for us we have one person visit and we're the begining of the chain....

RememberSelfCompassion · 18/12/2020 08:48

Biarritz that's exactly whats happening here.

QuantumJump · 18/12/2020 08:50

I think most people do understand, and if they're ignoring the rules it's deliberate.

Hazelmazel · 18/12/2020 08:51

It is absolutely happening from conversations I've had with friends. People will interpret it however they like to fit what they want to do. We're staying at home and not mixing.

To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?
RememberSelfCompassion · 18/12/2020 08:52

I think January will be awful.

I v concerned about primary schools being open (im vulnerable.) We know lots of people are asymptomatic. So young parents with say little aymptoms and kids with a "cold" all spreading. And primary schools staying open because kids habe little problem with the virus. I don't want them bringing it home to me. 🙄 We'll get fined if we keep her off.

WillSantaBeComingToTown · 18/12/2020 08:53

Just bore off

This is yesterdays news

If you want to be the self righteous covid police then fine with you own family but I am sick to detha of people who think that it is their mission in life to inform the ignorant because they are superior.

Why not concentrate on your own life?

Attention seeking through public information threads to make you feel above everyone else is unnecessary.

Original poster
Planetzog · 18/12/2020 08:55

I also think some people hear "3 households" and think that means 3 households in addition to their own. Or that's how they're choosing to interpret it.

OP posts:
Brighterthansunflowers · 18/12/2020 08:55

Bubbles are supposed to be exclusive. Just three households, even if A and B never meet they’re in a bubble if they both meet C.

It’s really very fucking clear but selfish dicks are just ignoring it

RememberSelfCompassion · 18/12/2020 08:56

Charming.

I think too most under 40s without health conditions have realised they'd likely be fine. So want Christmas as normal /feel they're sacrificing for others. I dont know the answer.

Imaginetoday · 18/12/2020 08:58

@plannit

I think that if households A, B and C are a bubble for household A but they see those households at different times say Christmas for B and Boxing Day for C - B can then have a household D after they've seen A as they never mixed with B!

It's complicated but not increasing their risk surely?

Nope...if A has virus they pass to B and C even if at different times. B then pass to D

Then we have ABC AND D passing to their households, kids, grannies ....

Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 08:58

I think it's pretty clear. But people will say it isn't and choose to interpret it differently because they don't want to do it.

Original poster
Planetzog · 18/12/2020 08:59

I'm not judging anyone's choices. Just dreading the inevitable lockdown. I'm the opposite of the covid police. I'm over this whole thing, totally sick of it.

OP posts:
Ginfordinner · 18/12/2020 09:00

I think this diagram explains the way bubbles work very well.

To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?
PoppyOppy · 18/12/2020 09:00

I think the bubble rules are very clear but some people are choosing to interpret them to suit what they want to do

This. I've had a friend tell me ”Mary is in my bubble because I don't go out” Mary’s husband is a teacher, 2 teen sons, one at school, the other works in a shop. And friend’s husband works in a hospital. Hmm

PoppyOppy · 18/12/2020 09:03

I do see light at the end of the tunnel

That might just be the train coming towards you! Confused

Rockbird · 18/12/2020 09:04

YANBU. I think I'm a reasonably intelligent woman, and I've been following the rules since the start. But it was only when I mentioned to SIL that we would see in laws and my parents that she said they then couldn't visit my parents because they were in the bubble with us and my in laws. I really didn't get it till then.

As it happens we're not visiting anyone at all this Christmas so it's all academic but I was a bit slow on the uptake Blush

CouldBeOuting · 18/12/2020 09:10

The rules are VERY clear but people are claiming they aren’t in order to bend them to suit their own wishes.

Personally, I think it’s ridiculous to relax the rules and we will be having Christmas with just the three of us who live here and our DD will join us by video call - she will be alone as her NHS worker housemate will be working.

However, I know very few people who have actually followed the rules at any point anyway and I think the “powers that be” are fully aware of that. They are simply hoping that the few families that ARE behaving correctly will have at least some effect.

My SIL for instance is always going on about people not wearing masks or getting too close to her in shops and “obey the rules covidiots” and then loads of pictures on FB of her having sleepovers with her grandchildren, family dinners with all her children (who don't live there) and her Mum and siblings .... she’s decided that as they are family that is “just one household”.

Theterrorrun · 18/12/2020 09:13

I think the roles are not unclear, but the reality of interconnected human relationships is such that working out how it applies in your circumstances can be complex and confusing. Many people are genuinely getting muddled and others are suiting themselves. If we did what we normally do, the chain would amount to at least 16 households and probably nearly as many again from interactions from other people within those households (obviously we are not doing anything remotely like that and have made quite big sacrifices to stay within the rules).

Theterrorrun · 18/12/2020 09:14

*rules are not unclear