To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?

[Planetzog]

From conversations I've had, and from what I've read on here, I think there's still loads of (understandable) confusion around the Christmas bubble concept. So household A might be meeting 2 other households between 23rd and 27th, perhaps lunch with household B on Christmas day, then drinks with household C on Boxing Day. But while households B and C both count A as one of their households, they don't know each other and have a different third household each - D and E. Sorry, complicated but can't think of a clearer way of describing what I mean.
Anyway, my point is that the repercussions of Christmas could end up being worse than expected as even more households get together over Christmas as they don't understand that the 3 households should be fixed? I've looked up the gov guidelines and they are not clear at all.

YABU - Everyone understands that Christmas bubbles are fixed with the same 3 households.

YANBU - People are choosing their own differing bubbles as described above.

I thought it was clear, but my mother didn't fully understand - and she's been very very strict about the rules, so not choosing to misunderstand I don't think.

My mum is having my sister (and kids) and my brother on Christmas day. She then asked if I'd be going on boxing day and i had to explain that that's too many households/too many people in total and that I'd just drop presents off beforehand without going indoors.

People are confused and think its 3 households at a time rather than 3 in total

We're tier 2 and have been for ages. We are meeting people outdoors instead of indoors - but this doesn't have to be limited to a 3 household bubble as its outdoors.

I hadn't realised tiers were in place for Christmas as you can now travel across tiers/ meet indoors etc.

So can tier 3 meet outdoors? Are they allowed to meet other family outdoors to avoid indoor mixing of more groups?

@dementedpixie

My mum is having my sister (and kids) and my brother on Christmas day. She then asked if I'd be going on boxing day and i had to explain that that's too many households/too many people in total and that I'd just drop presents off beforehand without going indoors.

People are confused and think its 3 households at a time rather than 3 in total

And I worry about my mum having all these interactions as she is on the shielding list and should be minimising who she is in contact with

Toad - I don't think its a covid police thread (noone is being told what to do) but a discussion about the fact the rules aren't working! Have you worked out your bubble?

It's definitely confusing for people of even above average intelligence.

I think they should have used the word chain.

People who are planning to have one other family group over on Christmas Day think they're being extra cautious, but not if that group meets one other another day, and that group met one other a different day and so on and so forth.

It's a chain, not a bubble.

To those saying it's better than all the school mixing: sort of, but it's also introducing new people into the mix when there hasn't been 10/14 clear days from all your children being in school!

I agree that there's confusion and misunderstanding and a lot of people will be in chains rather than strict bubbles, but there will also be a lot of 'I'm alright jack' people in the middle of bubbles of 3 who will decide that they will see both sets of parents, or a parent and a sibling and not give a flying fuck that this stops the other two households from seeing anyone else, even if it's the parents of a husband and wife who don't really know each other and rarely meet.

But you also have to apply some common sense, the rules are clearly written with families who travel and stay for several days - the provision for the husband could go to his family and the wife to her family and count these as separate bubbles indicates this.

However, all DP and I immediate family all live in the same city so all our visits will be a couple of hours to catch up and exchange presents over drinks and mince pies, with no-one staying overnight. So DP and I will see DM and DSis who are a bubble already. We will also see MIL and her DH, each for a short, socially distant indoor visit with no hugging. So that's your 3 households there.

But DSis will probably see her adult DD, again for a short, socially distant indoor visit, and MIL will see her other DS and family. So obviously this is all outside the rules, but there is no way that each household taking part in a couple of short, socially distant indoor visits within the 5 day period is a greater risk than 3 families getting together in one house for 5 days, even though the latter is within the rules and the former is not.

This is why I have cancelled Christmas. There were going to be 3 households but I know that one of those households is mixing with at least 6 households including mine so I have canned it. I'm rather angry at them putting me in this position TBH.

@WillSantaBeComingToTown

Just bore off

This is yesterdays news

If you want to be the self righteous covid police then fine with you own family but I am sick to detha of people who think that it is their mission in life to inform the ignorant because they are superior.

Why not concentrate on your own life?
I don't think people are trying to be superior at all. Many are fearful of losing loved ones or their livelihoods and are appreciative of what we all need to do to minimise transmission.

If people just concentrate on themselves then more people will die as a result. It is everyone's moral duty to protect the lives of others in these unprecedented times. We live in a free country but that doesn't mean we are devoid of responsibility.

You do not know who has the virus, asymptomatically, and could therefore transmit it among your bubble over Christmas. Each day people have died who did not have (or at least weren't aware of) underlying circumstances. That person could be one of your loved ones. It could be you.

@WillSantaBeComingToTown

FearlessGreatExpanse

If only you knew what I did for a living!

It is not about the rules. It is about the self righteous who think that they are superior and need to explain to the poor thick people.

Think about what people did under Enver Hoxha, it seems unbelievable to us now until we read some of the threads on here.

People have lost a sense of reality.

Finding it darkly amusing amd very ironic that you’re having a go at people trying to be superior yet you’re also trying to make yourself sound superior in your post by reference to your job which is irrelevant and a historical character who many (including me) will not have heard of.

But I think you’re being hysterical. These are short term rules which are necessary to stop
Hospitals being overwhelmed.

I’m far more concerned with what the right wing of the Tory party are trying to do with Brexit. That will have a far bigger and more damaging impact than Covid.

We are going to my mum and dads on Christmas Eve. DH and I are working over the Christmas period and we won't be coming home til the 28th. Won't be seeing anyone other than the 4 others in my "professional bubble" at work.
They are in our support bubble anyway as mum is disabled

Yes, only a few days between schools finishing and the Great Christmas Madness starting on the 23rd. 22nd for travel to and from NI and if they have any more Covid cases you may be stranded on the ferry. Also loads of people already go into other people’s houses who aren’t in their bubble.

Even if you have a fairly small family, in many cases it would involve having complicated conversations trying to reconcile the arrangements of people who don’t know each other. It’s unrealistic to think people will do this, more likely they’ll just think, oh well, we’re only seeing x and y and ignore what x and y are doing.

@Toadintheroad

People are choosing there own risk levels as adults I would assume. I hate all these Covid police threads!

Dear Lockdown-extender

your actions impact others so we will call you out on this. Don’t care that you hate it.

Love and kisses
The Covid Constabulary

@Gobbycop

Who the fuck cares.

I hope people just sensibly as they can do as they please.

Totally agree.

All this faux "but people don't understand" really means "I am a superior person because I will be sticking to the rules unlike you grubby, stupid, granny killing oiks".

We will actually be sticking to the rules - we are seeing my parents for an afternoon but not staying overnight - but it's not my job to be the moral police on what everyone else chooses to do. I can't influence what arrangements other people have, or how many people next door decide to have for Christmas lunch.

2020 has show just how desperate some people are to be involved in everyone else's business. And as for the "well covid is everyone's business, if there;s not a hospital bed for you yadda yadda" - just give over with that. The blame game and trying to guilt trip people for catching a virus is ridiculous. Just stop it.

Think of it this way. You have to be a little triangle of 3 households at most. None of you can meet anyone else.

All this faux "but people don't understand" really means "I am a superior person because I will be sticking to the rules unlike you grubby, stupid, granny killing oiks"

Stop trying to turn this into a class argument. Class is irrelevant and you’re simply trying to undermine the other side of the argument by applying the “liberal elite” Trump/Brexit approach.

Your actions affect me, my actions affect you. As decent humans we both should be considering others when assessing our own actions.

Live and kisses
The Covid Constabulary

@RememberSelfCompassion

Charming.

I think too most under 40s without health conditions have realised they'd likely be fine. So want Christmas as normal /feel they're sacrificing for others. I dont know the answer.

They could SI for 10 days following their over-size gathering of young and healthy only. As they should not have contact with the outside world (and all those who are not invulnerable)

Unacceptable? Well yes, but so is mixing extensively without realising that you are a transmission risk, and the people you transmit to are not all as low risk as you are.

I've discussed this with a few other people and they've been discussing it with their friends and family. It seems that the majority of people are making their own rules and doing their own thing - "following their instincts" and interpreting the rules to suit their own needs, like Dominic Cummings did. Some of them have actually mentioned him by name.

@FearlessGreatExpanse

All this faux "but people don't understand" really means "I am a superior person because I will be sticking to the rules unlike you grubby, stupid, granny killing oiks"

Stop trying to turn this into a class argument. Class is irrelevant and you’re simply trying to undermine the other side of the argument by applying the “liberal elite” Trump/Brexit approach.

Your actions affect me, my actions affect you. As decent humans we both should be considering others when assessing our own actions.

Live and kisses
The Covid Constabulary

Eh? Who said anything about class?

OP thinks she's superior because she's more switched on, more understanding, more compassionate, more ramped up to fight the good fight against Covid. The people she perceives as not "understanding" aren't oiks because of their class - they have upper class oiks too, you know.

It’s the government’s fault for giving everyone the impression that viruses take Christmas off. And when MPs are are going to parties with 27 people and Boris travels to Brussels for “discussions” that could have been done by phone or video conference, you can’t blame people for feeling that there is some tyranny going on.

@RaspberryCoulis

“Eh? Who said anything about class?”

You did! Do you not know the meaning of the word “oik” which is what you suggested people like me were calling those who are choosing not to follow rules/guidelines?

Perhaps try and understand the meaning of words before you use them?

So, let me get this right.

3 families, 3 bubbles and you can only mix with each other? If you mix 3 families on Christmas Day you are not supposed to mix with other people the other days. It is 3 bubbles, over the 5 days. Not 3 different bubbles every day?

Why not concentrate on your own life?

OP, isn't telling anyone what to do. Just pointing out that either the guidance isn't clear or people are wilfully misunderstanding it. I don't really understand telling someone to 'just concentrate on their own life' in the context of a pandemic. Come January I'll be back working in a school, shoulder to shoulder in packed corridors with 1800 teenagers and 200+ staff. So other people's choices do have the potential to impact on my family's safety unfortunately. Other posters will be worried about vulnerable family members or their jobs being at risk if lockdown is extended because of all the mixing indoors at Christmas. Saying "just concentrate on your own life" is massively simplistic.

YANBU - lots of people either don’t understand or are deliberately misconstruing the rules. I don’t blame anyone though, because they’re so pointless and illogical anyway that even if they are followed to the letter (bloody difficult to do and maintain family harmony) they won’t actually prevent a spike in January. I think lots of people recognise that and are just thinking ‘fuck it, we’ll mix households and just be careful’.

@iVampire I agree - but from what I've seen of my local area I think some people have realised it in all likelihood wont affect them and don't care. :( Even some quite sensible people.

Hence me being worried about sending my primary aged kid back into the melting pot of school after all this. I'm even wondering about pretending they're ill. I've never done that before, I'm always completely honest about absence.