To think that many people don't realise the Christmas bubbles of 3 households have to be the same for each of the 3 households?

[Planetzog]

From conversations I've had, and from what I've read on here, I think there's still loads of (understandable) confusion around the Christmas bubble concept. So household A might be meeting 2 other households between 23rd and 27th, perhaps lunch with household B on Christmas day, then drinks with household C on Boxing Day. But while households B and C both count A as one of their households, they don't know each other and have a different third household each - D and E. Sorry, complicated but can't think of a clearer way of describing what I mean.
Anyway, my point is that the repercussions of Christmas could end up being worse than expected as even more households get together over Christmas as they don't understand that the 3 households should be fixed? I've looked up the gov guidelines and they are not clear at all.

YABU - Everyone understands that Christmas bubbles are fixed with the same 3 households.

YANBU - People are choosing their own differing bubbles as described above.

I agree that people are wilfully misunderstanding or just choosing to either push the rules, or ignore them completely. It’s understandable tbh, I don’t blame people. The three households thing simply can’t work for many families because they are blended and there are step relatives involved, even where they want to follow the rules.

It’s like the rules were written with only perfect nuclear families in mind and the rest of us are ignored or set up to fail. So personally, as someone who physically can’t stick strictly to the rules, who is apparently perfectly safe to work in a school and who thankfully has no one vulnerable around, I will technically be in indirect contact with more than three households this Christmas. It will still be nothing like a normal Christmas.

3 families, 3 bubbles and you can only mix with each other? If you mix 3 families on Christmas Day you are not supposed to mix with other people the other days.

That is exactly right.

Yeah people are interpreting it as " no more than three households at a time" when actually it's "no more than three households in total full stop*

Until I read it on here and actually thought about it, I thought that too! It doesn't affect me as I'll only be seeing my mum indoors and nobody else.

I think a lot of people are going to try to do things outside though - a friend told me yesterday when we were out for a walk that her parents have a gazebo and a heater (poor environment) and she and her sister's family will stay outside as much as possible. Lets hope for a mild Christmas Day.

Until I read it on here and actually thought about it, I thought that too! It doesn't affect me as I'll only be seeing my mum indoors and nobody else

I hadn't fully thought it through either, but it could affect you, if your mum also intends to play bridge or meet her sister and her family. I'm sure she's not, but as an example, it's made me realise it's probably almost impossible to manage.

I think most people know what the rules are. We're seeing my Dsis & neice in a support bubble and PIL & BIL, DNs (in a support bubble with PIL). Allowed as 3 household, but actually 5 households, so it looks and sounds like we are breaking the rules.

I think also, as long as you are not seen breaking the rules people will do it, while knowing that they are breaking the rules.

We are sticking to the rules. But it does seem a bit weird that that means I am theoretically in a Christmas bubble with my elder daughter's boyfriend's parents - whom I've never met and will not be meeting at Christmas either! - rather than with my younger daughter whom I dearly love (because I voluntarily freed her up to bubble with her in-laws instead as she couldn't have seen her partner otherwise).

@Teakind

I think the bubble rules are very clear but some people are choosing to interpret them to suit what they want to do.

This ☝🏻

I wonder how many people have actually noted the point that Christmas bubbles are meant to act as one household in terms of self isolation for symptoms or positive test results, I expect not many.

Yeah...but who is going to know?

I have had various conversations and I agree people who are bright enough to understand are choosing to ignore the rules. They think that it's ok to see 2 households on one day and then 2 more on another day.

People are fed up I think and using it as an excuse. Also it's unlikely they will get caught or fined.

I'm dreading January when we go into another full lockdown 🥺

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire

Yeah...but who is going to know?

I usually try avoid threads like these but I genuinely don’t understand this attitude. Do you usually gauge whether or not to do something that is against guidance or law based on the likelihood you’ll get caught?

Do you usually gauge whether or not to do something that is against guidance or law based on the likelihood you’ll get caught?

Sometimes.

People are going to make their own rules and do their own thing, this was always going to be the case.

I really think people do know the rules, but will disregard them. You can't police what the others in your bubble do after you have seen them. You could check your bubble knows the rules but that is the limit.

If you have a policing instinct, I think it's best to stick to your own household.

My DH was having a bit of a grumble this morning about people not following this. Then I pointed out that the way he was expecting to see his older kids would be breaking the rules...

Everyone knows the rules but there's no way for the Government to monitor/informed it so people are going to do what they like 🤷‍♀️

Enforce not inform 🤦‍♀️

‘People choosing their own risk as adults’ is exactly they kind of uneducated crap that is causing the situation. Yes I might be a young-ish slim female with a low chance of it affecting me severely but if I catch it from being part of some extended Christmas bubble and am asymptotic then my DH could get it from me and then take it into his place of work where he has no choice but to be indoors with people or one of the kids takes it to school. Someone catches it from them takes it home and it kills their grandmother. That’s on me for breaking the rules.

Or what if my MIL decides that even though she is CEV she will still see all of her kids families indoors over Christmas even though it’s breaking the Christmas bubble rules. Yes it’s her own health that is at risk but if she gets ill she’s got a very high chance of ending up in hospital using NHS resources for an entirely avoidable reason.

Don’t be so stupid.

I think part of the problem is that so many people don’t actually bother to read the guidance. I think it is fairly clear:

The rules on forming and using a Christmas bubble will be the law. You must follow them to minimise the spread of infection.

If you choose to form a Christmas bubble there are three main rules:
you can only be in one Christmas bubble
you cannot change your Christmas bubble
your Christmas bubble should not include people from more than three households

It is important that you keep your Christmas bubble as small as possible.
You must not form a Christmas bubble if you are self-isolating.

That is taken from the full guidance here where there is more detail:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family

I misread the title and was confused by the concept of sharing family Christmas baubles
It will be fairly obvious who has followed the rules and who hasn’t if Covid spreads through a chain of bubbles.

I understand that the bubble is supposed to be just A, B and C. But I’m deliberately not asking my B and C if they’re seeing anyone else, and we are isolating for the two weeks before Christmas so we don’t pose any risk to them.

We are having B on Christmas Day and C on Boxing Day (ventilating throughout, and no overnight stays) and disinfecting the house between the two visits so effectively no chance of B and C infecting each other if they also see D and E respectively. Even if B infected us (A) on Christmas Day we wouldn’t be infectious to give it to C by Boxing Day because the incubation period is longer than that.
I don’t see how this set-up would be any more problematic than A, B and C all together at once but exclusive.

I am busy cementing my existing position as Wicked Witch of the West as far as parts of the extended family are concerned by insisting to sticking to the rules. We have an adult child coming home for Christmas which makes us a bubble of two households, and no, dear family members, leaving that person at home on the day you want to see us, would NOT turn us back into a single household.

I do find it confusing. I thought we could see SIL and her little ones for lunch on Christmas Day and then Boxing Day we could see my mum whilst SILs children see their dad. So I would mix with two households and SIL kids would mix with 2. But apparently not.

To be honest I would rather see no one at all rather than worry about social distancing within the home but I think whatever anyone does we are looking at a minimum of Tier 3 until March at least.

It's difficult because you can't control what the others in your bubble do. If 3 households meet at once that's easier because no one is allowed to see anyone else. But if you see the two other households separately, they may each think they can see another household as well. I mean it's unfair if my household visits both sets of grandparents but those grandparents then can't see anyone else at all. I can't stop them seeing their other grandchildren. I can see why Scotland have made it only 2 households - it leaves a lot less confusion.

Scotland is 3 households but maximum 8 people exc. Under 12s

Is it not Wales that is 2 households?