Page 7 | He is still not divorced

Heisstillnotdivorced · 2020-12-16T19:42:15+00:00

Namechanged. My fiance and I got engaged almost a year ago. We have one daughter, she is two years old. We have been living together for four years and own a house in both our names. He was legally separated when I met him and had been for two years. Things are pretty hostile with his ex, lots of sniping back and forth all the time. They have three teenage DCs together. She ended the marriage and has a new partner but seems to find any excuse to argue with my fiance. Initially I got on quite well with her but not anymore, she sent me a spiteful message last year saying he didn't want to move on from her, if he did they would be divorced now. I avoid her now. My problem is he has been promising me for two years now that he is going to sort his divorce out but there is always a reason it doesn't get done. AIBU to call off the engagement?

MsTSwift · 16/12/2020 22:34

Great that you are protected under Irish law. If you were in England you would be extremely vulnerable.

Mittens030869 · 16/12/2020 22:41

I agree that she’s been rude, and that’s never okay. But to be fair to her, the said posters were also being very insulting towards her about the issue. It wasn’t all one way.

SandyY2K · 16/12/2020 22:42

I have to say that if I was him, I wouldn't be keen on getting married again. Look how much this divorce will cost him...half his pension and the rest.

If you do get married and divorce, how much of his hard earned pension will he have left for himself.

From a financial POV...there's no benefit for him to marry you and I can imagine it just feels like a big headache.

Even if you don't want to get married anymore, it would still be nice to have a DP who isn't another woman's husband.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 22:47

It's not as simple as 'he is married' and 'your engagement means nothing'. A legal separation here is much closer to divorced than it is to married. On official forms, 'separarated' is a category. He is not considered married. The key difference here between separated and divorced is that you cannot legally remarry.

Divorce is a much newer concept here than in the UK. Many of my friends' parents who have been legally separated for decades never bothered getting divorced despite setting up home with other people. Most of the time it's only done if one party decides to remarry. It really isn't unusual for people to get engaged in this situation.

My issue is that he told me when we planned to move in together that he planned to get divorced when the legal timeframe had passed. This was not a deal-breaker for me, I just asked him what his plans were. The deal-breaker now is that he still hasn't followed through two years later.

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Piglet89 · 16/12/2020 22:49

You’ve said his parents are anti divorce.

How do they feel about you?

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 22:55

@Piglet89

You’ve said his parents are anti divorce.

How do they feel about you?

They hate me.

My parents are divorced. I don't go to mass. I work full-time instead of staying home with my child. Their son willingly does equal share of housework and childcare which is obviously women's work.

Why do you ask?

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Scottishskifun · 16/12/2020 22:55

How old are his teenage DCs?

It might be that he is actually delaying divorce on a tactical aspect. The settlement he would have to pay especially potential for spousal support is likely to be much lower once his older children turn 18. So it might not be a case of just delaying it for the sake of delaying it but purposeful to reduce the settlement level.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 22:58

@SandyY2K

I have to say that if I was him, I wouldn't be keen on getting married again. Look how much this divorce will cost him...half his pension and the rest.

If you do get married and divorce, how much of his hard earned pension will he have left for himself.

From a financial POV...there's no benefit for him to marry you and I can imagine it just feels like a big headache.

Even if you don't want to get married anymore, it would still be nice to have a DP who isn't another woman's husband.

Food for thought, thanks. Nobody forced him to propose or claim he was getting divorced though. So assuming we had different goals in life how can he think it's acceptable to mislead me? I was stunned when the engagement ring appeared to be honest.

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Piglet89 · 16/12/2020 22:58

I ask because, particularly when you get married to someone, it makes it more difficult if you don’t get on with their parents/family (unless they themselves are estranged from their family, I suppose).

Fully expecting to get my head bitten off for even raising this point - obviously.

Ohthatoldchestnut · 16/12/2020 23:02

If the ex moves on properly with her new man, does that make her argument that she wants more from your DP weaker? Not sure how it works under Irish law but in other jurisdictions, maintenance can be affected if the ex wife moves in with another man and/or remarries. If that applies here, it would make his delaying tactics make more sense.
Though even if this is a massive case of divorce 'chicken', it's still frustrating to the extreme and I would also question whether this was the right person to go through life's tough times with. But only you know the answer to that one.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 23:02

@Scottishskifun

How old are his teenage DCs?

It might be that he is actually delaying divorce on a tactical aspect. The settlement he would have to pay especially potential for spousal support is likely to be much lower once his older children turn 18. So it might not be a case of just delaying it for the sake of delaying it but purposeful to reduce the settlement level.

This could be playing a part alright. I'm pretty sure that the maintenance agreement is in place till they are 25 though (finished full-time education) and that is 6 years away.

I would be so upset if it was something like this though and he wasn't straight with me. It's him making decisions alone that impact our family together.

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Oldbutstillgotit · 16/12/2020 23:02

@ Piglet89 I agree . My first husband’s parents hated me and it made life so difficult especially when then DH had the blood’s thicker than water attitude.

2Rebecca · 16/12/2020 23:03

I think it's bizarre to get engaged when one of you is still married. We're on our second marriage. We didn't get engaged until we were both divorced and then got a move on and got married. If you are still married to someone else you can't remarry so it's all a bit silly. Some people do see engagements as "we'd like to get married one day, maybe, if all the stars align and life is perfect" but I don't think that is how most people view engagements. once you get engaged you sort out a date to get married otherwise it's just a pointless gesture.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 23:06

@Piglet89

I ask because, particularly when you get married to someone, it makes it more difficult if you don’t get on with their parents/family (unless they themselves are estranged from their family, I suppose).

Fully expecting to get my head bitten off for even raising this point - obviously.

He has very little to do with them and they live abroad. I get on fine with them, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that they don't approve of me.

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trixiebelden77 · 16/12/2020 23:08

I think you’re getting too focused on the concept of legal separation. It’s inherently contradictory to say that being separated means you’re not married, and in the next sentence to say that you can’t remarry whilst separated. People who aren’t married, whom the state recognises as not married, can get married whenever they want. Your boyfriend’s marriage remains recognised by the state - it’s the only thing preventing his marriage to you.

I don’t think it’s unheard of to propose or offer engagement without truly having a concrete intention to marry. It’s a meaningless gesture whilst one is married to someone else.

Time for him to decide if this is a true engagement - an agreement to marry between people who are free to do so - or just a romantic gesture.

snookercue · 16/12/2020 23:10

It's not as simple as 'he is married' and 'your engagement means nothing'. A legal separation here is much closer to divorced than it is to married.

I think you need to face up to the fact that he isn't closer to divorced than married. He is actually married. He had asked you to marry him when he is not free to marry, that's no coincidence. He knows he can't marry you and has taken no steps to change things so he can marry you.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 23:11

@Ohthatoldchestnut

If the ex moves on properly with her new man, does that make her argument that she wants more from your DP weaker? Not sure how it works under Irish law but in other jurisdictions, maintenance can be affected if the ex wife moves in with another man and/or remarries. If that applies here, it would make his delaying tactics make more sense. Though even if this is a massive case of divorce 'chicken', it's still frustrating to the extreme and I would also question whether this was the right person to go through life's tough times with. But only you know the answer to that one.

The 'divorce chicken' is a definite possibility - whoever instigates it pays and there are other implications too. This potentially being a motivating factor genuinely upsets me. It means he is prioritising winning a battle with her over doing the right thing with me.

Her moving in with her partner is not on the cards afaik as he has a complicated situation and she is not welcome in his home.

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Piglet89 · 16/12/2020 23:11

How could you possibly get on fine with people who “hate” you? I cannot understand this mentality.

Anyway, whole thing’s a mess: he’s dragging his heels on the divorce and his parents hate you.

The bigger issue by far is the fact he’s hugely disrespecting you by failing legally to terminate his previous marriage so that he get married to you. This would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

Scottishskifun · 16/12/2020 23:15

If it was me I would wait until after Christmas and speak to him about it.

It might be a case of there has been so much going on this year that the thought of the stress is too much, he might be feeling completely overwhelmed by the situation or he has received advice which could reduce the settlement amount.

Either way you need to open up that communication channel even just to explain the effects of him delaying has on your feelings and self esteem.

Divorce is often a messy overwhelming experience especially when not amicable or with an ex wife by the sounds of her. I think given he has set a date with you and is interested in the planning side of things does show where his heart truly lies. But it's best to explain that his actions also have consequences for you and the way you feel.

Jobsharenightmare · 16/12/2020 23:18

Winning a battle could mean tens of thousands of pounds if not hundreds in solicitor, court fees, not to mention the settlement itself.

I am not saying it is right. But....from his perspective, being pragmatic his current marriage has cost him dearly, so what is the incentive to get married again, at a cost of so much money, his financial security, pain and stress?

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 23:18

@trixiebelden77

I think you’re getting too focused on the concept of legal separation. It’s inherently contradictory to say that being separated means you’re not married, and in the next sentence to say that you can’t remarry whilst separated. People who aren’t married, whom the state recognises as not married, can get married whenever they want. Your boyfriend’s marriage remains recognised by the state - it’s the only thing preventing his marriage to you.

I don’t think it’s unheard of to propose or offer engagement without truly having a concrete intention to marry. It’s a meaningless gesture whilst one is married to someone else.

Time for him to decide if this is a true engagement - an agreement to marry between people who are free to do so - or just a romantic gesture.

Well I believe he does intend to marry me (or thinks he is going to) as he has informed the courts in his divorce papers, informed his family and his children of the engagement and date, booked and paid for a venue. He was dismayed when I delayed the date (for other reasons).

Beyond that I don't know what he's doing though.

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Jobsharenightmare · 16/12/2020 23:19

Also 2022 isn't that far away if it gets messy in court!

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 23:22

@Piglet89

How could you possibly get on fine with people who “hate” you? I cannot understand this mentality.

Anyway, whole thing’s a mess: he’s dragging his heels on the divorce and his parents hate you.

The bigger issue by far is the fact he’s hugely disrespecting you by failing legally to terminate his previous marriage so that he get married to you. This would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

Why would I care? He doesn't care about their opinion. He has very little to do with him and we rarely see them. They dislike me as I don't fit their 1950's housewife stereotype. That's their perogative. His ex didn't fit the stereotype at all either but she possibly put on a good show for their benefit. Each to their own. It's really not relevant here.

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Piglet89 · 16/12/2020 23:25

Yeah, as I expected, everyone’s wrong except you.

Whatever, OP: all the best, sincerely hope it does work out for you - but the signs are not good.

PerfidiousAlbion · 16/12/2020 23:27

Could it be that he has financial difficulties that you're not aware of?

I say that because if someone has a chaotic, avoidant lifestyle generally, then it tends to seep into all aspects of daily life.

Is he employed? A high earner? Cash flow issues?

I'm sorry to say this but I'd also check that your ring is real. It's odd how it just appeared out of nowhere without any discussion. I'm an old cynic though.