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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

He is still not divorced

432 replies

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 19:42

Namechanged.

My fiance and I got engaged almost a year ago. We have one daughter, she is two years old. We have been living together for four years and own a house in both our names. He was legally separated when I met him and had been for two years.

Things are pretty hostile with his ex, lots of sniping back and forth all the time. They have three teenage DCs together. She ended the marriage and has a new partner but seems to find any excuse to argue with my fiance. Initially I got on quite well with her but not anymore, she sent me a spiteful message last year saying he didn't want to move on from her, if he did they would be divorced now. I avoid her now.

My problem is he has been promising me for two years now that he is going to sort his divorce out but there is always a reason it doesn't get done.

AIBU to call off the engagement?

OP posts:
Kalula · 17/12/2020 10:05

I'm loving the OP's comments, some of the posts to her are rather......ridiculous. To say the least, and sarcasm is warranted. OP, please use this fire and assertiveness to make sure your fiance does follow through with the 2 appointments, and I agree you should go with him, it does affect you also to be fair.

PrincessNutNutRoast · 17/12/2020 10:05

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

Not going to lie, OP you’re cracking me up with your sarcasm. I hope you have an Irish accent because that’s how I’m reading your posts.

Makes a change from the usual mumsnet pile-ons.

I've been liking it too, and also reading it in an Irish accent. I especially liked it when OP said she accepted the proposal for all the engagement gifts and someone took it seriously.
Strangedayindeed · 17/12/2020 10:06

@PrincessNutNutRoast agreed. It was my comment she replied too with the sarky comment and then someone thought it was serious I was cracking up!

Piglet89 · 17/12/2020 10:14

The OP: fantastic at wise-cracking and sarcasm.

Poorer at manners and life decisions.

chubbyhotchoc · 17/12/2020 10:18

This is why if you want marriage, you don't move in and have kids first. What's in it for him to marry you? It's just an expense he doesn't need. He may have feelings for her or it may just be the money aspect -either way he doesn't care much about your needs at this point. With only one child you could possibly find someone else so you could say that you want marriage or you'll look elsewhere and start separation process if he's not forthcoming with setting a date. Sometimes they just need a kick up the ass. If he doesn't want to meet your needs he's not for you house and child or no house and child.

Mittens030869 · 17/12/2020 10:25

I do sometimes get the impression that some posters on AIBU think they should be allowed to be as rude to the OP as they want but woe betide the OP if they give as good as they get. So there are double standards at play frequently. (I'm not justifying this OP's overly aggressive response to some posters, but it really hasn't just been her who has been guilty of that.)

And I've learnt to my cost in the past that sarcasm and humour don't work on Mumsnet as there will always be someone who thinks you're being serious, and if then derails the thread when you have to apologise and explain yourself.

TheLongRider · 17/12/2020 10:29

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/

As other posters have pointed out, he does not have capacity to marry as he is not divorced. So he can set all the dates he wants but it will not be a valid marriage until the divorce is finalised.

The OP does have cohabitation rights. It is the law in Ireland since 2011. If she is financially dependent on him she can claim for maintenance, legal orders dealing with property and other assets. www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/cohabiting_couples/rights_of_unmarried_couples.html

The ex- wife and the legal separation. The legal separation does hold some weight in the divorce. The ex-wife will need to show good reasons why the terms of the legal separation should be changed in the divorce. She can look for a further share of assets but he can challenge this in his defence to the contested divorce proceedings. Usually the courts are reluctant to overturn the terms of the separation agreement, the key points are that the children of the marriage and assets have been sorted out. They don't care about fault and marital breakdown (unless absolutely unavoidable such as domestic violence and abuse).

Yes, Irish law in principle allows for the terms of a divorce to be revisited but the key phrase is "full and final settlement". I don't know of a case where a divorce was overturned and a further division of assets was granted years later after the divorce. You'd want to be a lottery winner with your ex living in penury for that to happen.

Basically the OP's DP needs to get his finger out, face up to the ex and gets this sorted. If he doesn't have enough money he can contact the Legal Aid Board in Ireland. He can represent himself and he can look for a consultation with FLAC.

There is a wealth of information available between the Citizen's Information website linked above, the Legal Aid Board website, FLAC and the Courts Service websites. It'll take a morning's reading to understand how to proceed.

(Ex family law lawyer here based in Ireland)

Piglet89 · 17/12/2020 10:31

I think it’s more @Mittens030869 that I, for example, have tried to be as civil as possible to the OP and she has been incredibly rude in response. As I said earlier: just no need for it.

Ultimately, she made the decisions that have resulted in her ending up here and should not take her her frustration (partly with her apathetic partner, partly with herself, by the sounds of things) out on other posters.

ThriceThriceThice · 17/12/2020 10:37

OP - I'm appreciating your sarcasm too - not sure why so many posters keep wanting to tell you what an idiot you are. I guess it's making them feel better for having made so very many excellent decisions in their lives.

In defence of your partner, my OH has a difficult ex and the divorce and subsequent court cases over custody and maintenance (instigated by his ex) were pretty horrendous for him - I could see how much time, energy and, of course, money it cost him (although he is very happy with the outcome). It can be utterly exhausting and draining and I don't blame your partner for putting it off.

However, you have now clearly told him that you are hurt and upset and need it finished. I guess the issue is, why isn't that enough? Have you told him that you have lost respect for him? I love my partner dearly and if he said that to me, I would be gutted. It would cause me to take a good look at myself / actions.

On another issue, it sounds like being disorganised is a trait of his. I think this is probably something you need to accept. In my experience, some people need a lot of support / structure in their lives otherwise it quickly descends into chaos - many very successful CEOs are only successful because they have a brilliant PA organising the shit out of things for them. So basically after the divorce, I think you might have to plan the holidays in future.

CakeRequired · 17/12/2020 10:38

It's funny how you think being sarcastic will help op. You're likely going to have to sell your house and give a quarter of the amount of it to her. You're going to be back to renting, probably forever. He is going to have half of his pension taken, and any other assets. That's all no doubt going to happen because you're engaged to a spineless pushover. Dumping him won't let you escape this, you signed the papers on the house. You're stuck now.

Be sarcastic all you want, but people are trying to help and sarcasm is going to get you nowhere. But you've gotten yourself into this mess, if you're more intelligent than the rest of us like you seem to think, sort the mess out yourself. Should be easy, right? Good luck to you.

ChristmasFluff · 17/12/2020 10:38

OP, you can dress it up all you like, but men have started wars, abdicated thrones and changed the religions of entire countries for the woman they loved. Yours can't even get a divorce.

That would tell me all I needed to know.

onlythepianoplayer · 17/12/2020 10:42

This thread is a great example of people assuming that the legal stuff OP talks about is English.Ireland is a separate legal jurisdiction and the marriage / separation / divorce laws will be different to what most posters know ( assuming most posters are based in England)

This, but also, I don't think people understand that there are huge cultural differences. Ireland is not a part of the UK and contrary to popular belief, is not just the same but with guinness and leprechauns.

Divorce in Ireland is nothing at all like divorce in the UK. ITs much newer, much harder, and much less common. For example, very few of any of my children have friends with divorced parents, almost all live with both their mother and father.

Divorce takes YEARS. People who do split, historically, have moved on with new partners but not got divorced at all or not for years and years. It's not a straightforward process though it is getting to be easier now.

OP, ignore all the UK posters who don't understand any of this. Yes, he needs to just get the fuck on with it, but there's nothing odd about any of it.

WhereamI88 · 17/12/2020 10:45

Do I actually want to marry him if it's going to be a life surrounded by chaos, procrastination and let's face generally maddening behaviour.

Think carefully about this. What do you get out of marrying him? Because 5 years down the line when you are working, doing all the school runs and organizing EVERYTHING related to your child, the house, holidays, everything, and you want to leave...you can't. If you are working and are financially independent, the Irish legal system will do nothing but shackle you to this man. You may be together forever and it sounds like you get along very well, there's no reason to leave now. But WHY get married? Things change, patience wears thin. Forget the romantic stuff, they really don't matter in the long run.

ememem84 · 17/12/2020 10:49

@Ginfordinner

The ring was so pretty plus I knew we would get loads of engagement presents.

I have no words.

i'm assuming that the op's pretty engagement ring and tons of presents comments was sarcasm....
chubbyhotchoc · 17/12/2020 10:57

@ChristmasFluff

OP, you can dress it up all you like, but men have started wars, abdicated thrones and changed the religions of entire countries for the woman they loved. Yours can't even get a divorce.

That would tell me all I needed to know.

Say it louder for the people in the back 😂
Ginfordinner · 17/12/2020 10:58

i'm assuming that the op's pretty engagement ring and tons of presents comments was sarcasm....

I realise now Grin

Original poster
Heisstillnotdivorced · 17/12/2020 11:00

@ChristmasFluff

OP, you can dress it up all you like, but men have started wars, abdicated thrones and changed the religions of entire countries for the woman they loved. Yours can't even get a divorce.

That would tell me all I needed to know.

Each to their own but I wouldn't be particularly keen on dating one of those men.

I would like one however who follows through on what he promises, considers my feelings and can get one with basic and necessary tasks before it gets to the point he has pushed away the woman who loves him.

OP posts:
onlythepianoplayer · 17/12/2020 11:04

I'm sorry to be mean but you're not engaged. Engaged means "engaged to be married". There is no way you can have this status because he is already married, it would be bigamy. If he wants to genuinely make you an actual proposal of marriage (becoming "engaged") he needs to be divorced first

Bollocks to this. You can be engaged to be married while still married, its no fucking bigamy. Its only bigamy if you actually get married.

Engaged means nothing more than you have decided that you will get married at some unspecified point in the future. That's it.

People will keep posting shit. Like all this crap about the wife having a claim on OP's house etc....its all bollocks. You don't know what you are talking about. IT's not your country.

3rdNamechange · 17/12/2020 11:04

@Ginfordinner

The ring was so pretty plus I knew we would get loads of engagement presents.

I have no words.

Joke
ememem84 · 17/12/2020 11:05

@Ginfordinner

i'm assuming that the op's pretty engagement ring and tons of presents comments was sarcasm....

I realise now Grin

and i posted before i realised that the thread was more than one page...

if it was me, i'd be removing the ring, setting a deadline and making him aware that if things haven't moved on significantly by said deadline then i'd be going.

i know nothing about Irish law, and didnt actually know that you could be legally separated as this isn't recognised here (channel islands) you're either married or not. i also believe that here you have to wait a set amount of time from granting of divorce to be able to remarry.

Ginfordinner · 17/12/2020 11:05

@3rdNamechange I have already replied to this upthread.

CakeRequired · 17/12/2020 11:05

Each to their own but I wouldn't be particularly keen on dating one of those men.

I would like one however who follows through on what he promises, considers my feelings and can get one with basic and necessary tasks before it gets to the point he has pushed away the woman who loves him.

The point is though, those men did follow through on their promises. Your man has not, and all this talk about getting it sorted in January, just wait for the excuses in January. He isn't going to get it done, he can't be bothered. You deserve better than this.

But kicking him out is far more difficult now with the wedding booked and the house etc. If I were you, I'd be getting my own appointments with lawyers in January to discuss selling the house and splitting it between you both.

Getting divorced in Ireland is an excuse people are making for him. It might be more difficult, but it can still be done. Plus if it's more difficult, how does he expect to have that accomplished in less than 2 years?

BethlehemIsInTier1 · 17/12/2020 11:06

Seems like his ex may have a point, I think I would call it off until after they are divorced, do not settle for second best.

chubbyhotchoc · 17/12/2020 11:08

@Heisstillnotdivorced what she's saying is that men will do what it takes to make the women they love happy and to make a life long commitment if you are the one. I was only separated when I met my now dh. He wanted to get married as soon as possible so he helped me get a solicitor and paid for my divorce to quicken the process. Your guy is in no rush and you have to look at why

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 17/12/2020 11:09

I’m on the other side of the same situation.. When my ex and I separated we did a separation agreement quite quickly as there was a house that needed to be sold.. With hindsight I should have just filed for divorce at the same time, but I had so much on my plate (emotionally and financially, as well as serious health worries) that I decided it was a problem to kick down the road. A few years later he met and got engaged to someone else, he asked me for a divorce, and I said sure just file and I’ll sign off on it. Another year passed and nothing happened, so eventually I filed (meaning all the costs have fallen to me). Neither of us wanted to be married to the other, it was purely an issue of the time and expense on my part, and my ex has never been able to organise anything paperwork related in his life.
I confess I found it odd that she was happy to get engaged to someone still married, and that she didn’t push him harder to sort it out.