Was DD overreacting?

[christmascaroller]

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

Wikipedia Faggot (food)

Still faggots with Wikipedia. I didn't realsie they were a midland and south wales food - though I grew up in one place and had them semi regularly and just re-discoved them in south wales.

Though it's mostly brains faggots or cooked take out ones not thought to ask local butchers about them.

She’s not wrong that it is not right to use that word these days but she shouldn’t have sworn or used name calling , that shows she’s immature.

Her point was correct, BUT the way she expressed it was wrong and disrespectful to the other party. By the sounds of it your husband did not insult her, but she insulted him. As soon as you throw insults you've lost, perhaps have a chat with her about that and get them both to acknowledge that each other was upset and to move on.

By the sounds of it your husband did not insult her, but she insulted him.

We don't know OP's child is heterosexual and given OP hasn't come back to clarify, there's every chance it was insulting.

The Pogues themselves are fine with the word being changed now when it’s played on the radio, they accept that it’s not ok to say that word anymore.

It might be a generalisation but going by the wankers getting their knickers in a twist on Twitter about Fairytale of New York not featuring that word anymore, it seems that it is bigoted twats making the biggest noise about it. The type that insist “all lives matter” because they can’t bear to say that Black Lives Matter.

I didn't realise they said "Old Slut on Junk" either, I also thought it was "Old Southern Drunk" that's hysterical. I like this song more and more each year.
Anyway, on what parallel universe is it okay for a kid to use a body part slur to counter someone saying the word faggot isn't all bad? I must admit though, it's the word most overused by me when driving!

We are dealing with a passionately ‘woke’ and sometimes inversely hypocritical generation don’t you know.

Jesus I hate people who slag off the younger generations for their "wokeness". Better than racism and homophobia.

@Schummakker

We are dealing with a passionately ‘woke’ and sometimes inversely hypocritical generation don’t you know.

Because she objected to her father complaining about not being able to use a homophobic slur?

@chickenchowmeins

Jesus I hate people who slag off the younger generations for their "wokeness". Better than racism and homophobia.

Totally agree! My daughter is massively “woke” (so am I actually) and I’d much prefer that to her being a bigoted twat. It’s got to be better to have a generation of people who care what they say to others so as not to upset them than a generation of selfish bastards who don’t give a fuck about other peoples feelings.

I’m very suspicious about your DH position. I would say it’s ridiculous to question this. He didn’t say it in the context of old fashioned recipe, no.
I think your DD offered him the taste of his own medicine. How does it feel to be called bigoted twat? I bet he didn’t like it.
And yes, she overreacted, she could find a better way of getting her point across but she’s 15 and this age is not famous for calm logical discussions.
I also wonder if it’s not the first time she was disappointed by her father’s views. No way she would react like this if he’s understanding, progressive and supportive all the previous 15 years.

It's hard to keep up with what's acceptable and what isn't - queer used to be a slur but now seems to be totally fine, personally I don't like it any more than I like fagg*t but whatever. In the context of the song it doesn't bother me, a lot of parents probably lived through a time when even the word gay was an insult and could even be applied to inanimate objects as in 'that is so gay'. To me the song is just showing it's age and it's great (and pretty amazing!) just how much things have moved on since then. I think bleeping out words just ruins the song and makes anyone who doesn't know what the word is want to know. I think your daughter had a pretty extreme reaction though to this, could it be in relation to her own sexuality and worry about her dads attitude to it that has made her take it so badly?

@chickenchowmeins

Jesus I hate people who slag off the younger generations for their "wokeness". Better than racism and homophobia.

Here here!

Is rather be "too woke" than a biggot any day.

@TatianaBis What I mean is that the character isn’t using the word because it’s a homophobic slur. They’re using it because it’s an insult. Like in the Fawlty Towers scene that was cut. The racial slurs used were common words at the time, otherwise they wouldn’t have made it onto a bbc sitcom. This isn’t true anymore, racist and homophobic language is classed as a higher level of bad language, and one that is specific to people who are racist and homophobic - so you couldn’t have a character call someone ‘gay’ when they mean ‘loser’, like happened when I was at school, because it would be distracting from the meaning, because the audience would assume the character was being homophobic. You could say dick, prick, bitch, or twat, though, because they’re used as generic insults. They have specific meanings, but also have ‘generic bad word insult’ as the meaning.

So I would say that while it has always been a homophobic slur, in the song the meaning is ‘generic bad word insult’, because she’s not insulting him for being gay - that’s not the story, she’s just insulting him. The word doesn’t tell that story anymore, so they changed it.

Heartily agree, @TheTrashBagIsOursCmonTrashBag.
A benefit of my generation and the future ones is a willingness to change and adapt, which is not what people who enjoy saying slurs are willing to do. It's so easy to criticise "wokeness" or PC culture just to hide your own prejudices.

("you" in the general term, not you specifically!)

@berrygirlie

but it’s probably fairly distressing to realise your father’s a bigot tbf. Your daughter could well be LGBTQ.

Yes I agree. If OP's DD was gay and had to hear her father describing how he could use a homophobic slur "but not in a homophobic way" I can understand the build up of anger at not being listened to. Whether she's LGBTQIA+ or not, he could decide to be more diplomatic, and she needs to learn how to respond appropriately to this type of conflict.

Ah yes. Young women need to learn to be nicer to people when they come across bigotry.

In what world is me saying we are dealing with a passionately woke gen seen as defending homophobia and racism? Jesus Christ. This is exactly my point. How dare you?

My DC are passionately woke which is wonderful but there are times when it’s borderline hypocritical and I point that out, they need a well rounded point of view, to avoid becoming adults who scream ‘racist!’ ‘Homophobia!’

Ah yes. Young women need to learn to be nicer to people when they come across bigotry.

No. And let's not misunderstand my point.
You (unfortunately) can't go around calling people bigoted twats. If I said it to you on this forum my post would be swiftly deleted. She needs to learn to be able to argue her corner, and then decide to leave if her father is bigoted (which in this circumstance he was) but I'm not insinuating she be "nice" for the good of anyone other than herself. I'm a young woman as well FWIW, so let's ease up on reading into insinuations I've not made.

they need a well rounded point of view, to avoid becoming adults who scream ‘racist!’ ‘Homophobia!’ hmm

And a well-rounded point of view is not condoning using the word f*ggots is it? Which her father did

A lot of times young people should be reminded, they can express their views well without having to insult people necessarily.

Even if she is correct to defend her argument, calling her father a twat is not on.

[quote TerribleLizard]@TatianaBis What I mean is that the character isn’t using the word because it’s a homophobic slur. They’re using it because it’s an insult. Like in the Fawlty Towers scene that was cut. The racial slurs used were common words at the time, otherwise they wouldn’t have made it onto a bbc sitcom. This isn’t true anymore, racist and homophobic language is classed as a higher level of bad language, and one that is specific to people who are racist and homophobic - so you couldn’t have a character call someone ‘gay’ when they mean ‘loser’, like happened when I was at school, because it would be distracting from the meaning, because the audience would assume the character was being homophobic. You could say dick, prick, bitch, or twat, though, because they’re used as generic insults. They have specific meanings, but also have ‘generic bad word insult’ as the meaning.

So I would say that while it has always been a homophobic slur, in the song the meaning is ‘generic bad word insult’, because she’s not insulting him for being gay - that’s not the story, she’s just insulting him. The word doesn’t tell that story anymore, so they changed it.[/quote]
@TerribleLizard

It’s both insult and gay slur. It’s by no means clear that the character wasn’t using it as a gay insult. And even if she wasn’t, it is. So the word insults all gay people irrespective of how you believe the character to have meant it which is both highly speculative and irrelevant.

As correct as her view is their is a way to conduct yourself and she fell short.

@chickenchowmeins have I condemned her defending her (correct) opinion?

You are a case in point for what I mean.

Of course she was right, her calling her Dad a twat though isn’t.

Young people can teach older ones a lot and open their eyes but people automatically close their ears when it gets preachy, insulting and hypocritical.

On the surface of it she totally over reacted and that language is not acceptable.

HOWEVER the fact your DH wants to be able to say it meant exactly suggest he's open minded and liberal. Perhaps he is indeed bigoted and she's fed up of listening to his nonsense.

Regardless of the connotations of the word and her finding it upsetting she cannot use that to justify how she spoke to her dad at all.

It's not acceptable for her to dictate (yes I agree that faggot isn't a nice word) what words he can't use by following it up with the word twat which many others would also find a horrible word