Manipulative DM cancels Christmas to throw herself a pity party - help!!

[girasol]

Aaaargh, what do I do?
I’m sorry for the length of the below, it's probably not an AIBU as I really don't think I am being unreasonable but anyway...

We had planned to see my parents (mid 70s, both have had major health problems in the past but are basically ok at the moment) at Christmas.
Hubby and I have been very careful throughout the pandemic – no eating in cafes/restaurants, no mixing indoors with anyone, both lucky to be able to work from home. Biggest risk has been from our kids (7 and 5) going to school.

My parents have gone the other way, acting like there is no pandemic, largely ignoring the restrictions (“I’m not having the government tell me what to do!” etc) – they eat out, go to the supermarket, my mum gets her nails done. This has continued even if they went into tier 3 after the lockdown (they live right on a T3/T2 boundary and to be fair to them the rates where they live are actually relatively low).

Back in the summer we booked a outdoor lights trail at a stately home between us for Xmas eve, then about 6 weeks ago we said we’d also be happy for the kids to stay over with them for one night on the basis that the risk of young kids spreading Covid seems to be much lower (albeit there is obviously still a risk) – hubby and I would not stay or be inside with them though. I’ve kept saying to them that they should avoid making concrete plans or getting their hopes up about it as we might not be able to go ahead with the plan – kids might need to isolate etc.

Now with rates escalating everywhere, multiple cases in our kids’ school (for the first time – son’s class has just finished a stint of isolation and at one point last week more than half the school was off), and us now bordering some T3 places I felt increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of letting the kids stay. My parents will hopefully be vaccinated within the next 1-2 months, and the kids won’t have been isolating because they’ll have been at school - it just felt like a risk that’s not worth taking.

I called my parents to tell them that we’re still v happy to go ahead with the lights trail but we’d like to postpone the sleepover bit (for the reasons given above). My mum responded by throwing her toys out of the pram and saying that if that’s how we feel, we should probably cancel the whole thing (ie the lights trail too). I reiterated we were very keen to go ahead with that bit and said we’d be happy to meet them for another day over the Christmas period and go somewhere else outdoors (I suggested a woods we’ve visited which is about halfway between us), so they would still get to spend the time with the kids, but she made it clear she wasn’t interested in this.

The difficulty is she has always been the queen of cutting off her nose to spite her face but it has got much worse in the last few year. She would genuinely rather cancel everything out of spite and spend the next month wallowing in self-pity, even if that means effectively punishing our children who won’t be able to see them at all.

After the initial call, hubby talked me into suggesting that we push back the sleepover until the end of the school holiday (probably new years day) – it would mean breaking the rules (no mixing of households by then, plus we’re not meant to travel to T3, which I wouldn’t be happy about), but obviously the risks would be much lower as we would have largely been isolating as a family for a good 10 days by then.

I called my parents again and spoke to my dad who said my mum was ‘very very upset’ by us postponing the sleepover, and that she now planned to try to arrange a minor surgical procedure on her knee for the day the kids were due to stay over with them (ie the day I’d suggested we now go to the woods) which would likely mean she couldn’t do the lights trail the next day either. We suggested the new year’s sleepover plan – my dad relayed this to my mum, but my mum said “Well they’ll only change their minds again so what’s the point?” and “We might be doing something else then, it’s too far ahead to plan” and “Well, we might give the children Covid, mightn’t we?!” – basically full of excuses. Because now she’s psyched herself up for a nice long pity party, she doesn’t want it to be snatched away from her, right?! Even if we were now willing to back down completely and go ahead with the original sleepover plan (which I am not willing to do), I think she would actually refuse.

I completely get that she is disappointed and upset, but she has zero interest in even trying to understand our point of view in all this which on any analysis is not unreasonable (again, this has become a recurring theme with her – she treats my views on many things with utter contempt).

I don’t know what to do now – the ball is in her court but knowing her I think it’s unlikely she will change her mind having slept on it – she is extremely stubborn and bloody minded. I would just leave her to it if it weren’t for the kids missing out.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience of dealing with this kind of behaviour please? Hubby thinks I just need to wait to hear back from her and if she still wants to cancel everything (which is very likely) we just say to her that we’re very disappointed, in particular for the children, and that we will have no choice but to tell them that their grandmother doesn’t want to see them over Christmas. That might be where we end up but I think that would shut the door on any chance of her agreeing to meet at all, so part of me is tempted to panda to her behaviour, objectionable though it is, just to try to salvage something for the kids.

Sorry this has been so long.

You really don't see why meeting outdoors is less risky than a sleepover in a house?
Wow, messaging really getting through to you for the last NINE MONTHS, huh?
This! Oh dear.

I have only read your posts girasol, so don't know what advice you've been offered by others. My advice is some I took from others on this board, which is

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got.

My guess would be that you've been trained from birth to pander to your mother, and that's the 'what you've always done' that you need to change. Don't wheedle, don't offer olive branches, don't run round her trying to change her mind; take her tantrum words at face value and say 'Fine, if that's what you want, that's what you'll get'.

And stop thinking of her as a stubborn adult. Her behaviour is that of a tantrumming toddler, so treat her as such. Don't give her the attention she wants, she's on the naughty step until she calms and behaves reasonably. It seems to me that she needs to feel the consequences of her drama-llama ways, which have been sadly lacking what with you trained to pander and your father enabling her pettyness. So stop pandering, or you will indeed continue 'to get what you've always got', namely an unreasonable mother.

"Hubby thinks I ... we just say to her that we’re very disappointed, in particular for the children, and that we will have no choice but to tell them that their grandmother doesn’t want to see them over Christmas."
Excellent idea of your husband's. Consequences. She needs to know what they are, feel them herself, and know that her tantrum affects others. If that "would shut the door on any chance of her agreeing to meet at all", so be it, it's on her head and NOT yours. I see you wouldn't actually tell the children that, but she doesn't have to know that.

"... part of me is tempted to panda to her behaviour, objectionable though it is, just to try to salvage something for the kids."
No, if you pander to her you are teaching your children that tantrums work and get you what you want. It's not in their interests to be taught that, is it?

I'm impressed with your booking a Christmas event in summer

@ukgift2016

I am with your mum, you sound over precious.

Agree with this completely. Why tell your children their nan doesn’t want to see them when she’s said no such thing?

@Laserbird16

You don't negotiate with terrorists.

Do the lights trail as that sounds lovely and your mum will huff and puff about how hard done she is.

Honestly, you can't fix this as this is her choice. She has chosen to be aggrieved, get on with enjoying yourself.

WTAF!! Terrorists????

we just say to her that we’re very disappointed, in particular for the children, and that we will have no choice but to tell them that their grandmother doesn’t want to see them over Christmas.

Too far.

Glad you're not going to do that.

@goldielockdown2

It's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. Not sure why you've now decided that a light trail is no risk and a sleepover is a risk but you're entitled as a parent to make this choice, and your DM is entitled to feel disappointed and is justified in what she's saying about you chopping and changing future plans.

@goldielockdown2 Because a light trail is outside and the risk of transmission is much less outdoors than indoors.

Pretty staggering that this message hasn't got through to you in the last 9months. Do you really think risk of transmission is the same indoors and outdoors?

She’s a bitterly disappointed grandma who resents her adult child assessing her risk and unilaterally making decisions on her behalf instead of having an adult discussion with her and reaching mutual agreement

If she's so disappointed and not a narcissist, why is she playing silly games and spoiling the opportunity to see her grandchildren, with all the disappointment that this will bring the children.

A sleepover is being postponed. She's not even willing to wait a few days.

What is she, six?

This is narcissistic behaviour in the extreme. She is not 'very very upset' if she's throwing up the opportunity to enjoy a lovely walk with her grandchildren and doesn't care enough to commit to a date only a little further down the line. She's mad as hell that things aren't within her control. Huge difference. As for wheeling out her husband to report her deep emotional spasms with no regard for her grandchildren's feelings or her daughter's genuine effort to do the right thing...words fail me.

She is indeed a narcissist.

Not sure why you've now decided that a light trail is no risk

Have you in fact been under a rock.

Outdoor meet-ups are much less likely to result in transmission because this is an airborne virus. Hence your children being educated in freezing classrooms because all the windows are open.

No, @cookiecuttercreamandbutter, she isn’t six. Which is quite possibly why she’s so pissed off with her daughter treating her as if she is.

You don’t just unilaterally change plans you’ve made with other adults without discussion. You suggest that it might be better to make other arrangements and discuss what those arrangements might be. I’m pretty sure nobody would dictate to their friends in this way. Why is this considered appropriate with your parents?

She’s sounds hard work anyway. You should be relieved.

Er, OP as the parent gets to decide when and where her child goes for a sleepover. She doesn't have to ask anyone's permission to withdraw from such an arrangement. Even her own parents.

I think Yabu not your poor parents.

@BethlehemIsInTier1 why do you think OP is being unreasonable? Have you listened to the medics, scientists & politicians today?

@PixelatedLunchbox

. . . if she still wants to cancel everything (which is very likely) we just say to her that we’re very disappointed, in particular for the children, and that we will have no choice but to tell them that their grandmother doesn’t want to see them over Christmas.

Come on @girasol -- Your mum is having a strop, and then you'll have one as well???

You certainly WILL "have a choice" what to tell them, and it should not be that their grandmother "doesn't want to see them". I would try to unlearn this pissy behaviour, it's unpleasant and you may well see it repeated in your children when they are grown and dealing with you...

RTFT @PixelatedLunchbox, and read the full original post too! What you are quoting is (as the original post makes clear) what my husband was suggesting we say/do. It was partly this that I was asking people's advice about, as while I could see where he was coming from it didn't sit right with me.

I then went on to say in a later thread that I'd been persuaded that this wasn't the right approach and that we would just tell our children that due to Covid we wouldn't be seeing the GPs just now.

Thanks for all the responses (especially the supportive ones!).
By way of an update, my mum texted me this evening to say that as the kids aren't coming to stay on the 23rd as planned she has now booked the minor knee procedure. She says to thank my hubby for the suggestion that the kids stay with them for a night at the end of the holiday "but as I imagine that would be 2 January it's not that long after they were due to come anyway". [this bit doesn't make sense - I think she's perhaps trying to say what difference would it make to postpone by a week or so - but we had already explained that it would mean we could all isolate for 10 days before, rather than the kids seeing them only a few days after they'd been in a Covid-infested school].
She then goes on to say that Tripadvisor contains lots of reports of people who've been on the lights trail saying that it's not Covid-safe (though outdoors, people not distancing and not wearing masks) so we should reconsider whether we go. She is being sarcastic here (I had a comment like this back in the summer which at the time I took at face value as genuine concern for us, but then it became clear that she was taking the piss out of hubby and me for being cautious).

She then says "Dad and I will be safer staying at home." Here, she is being entirely disingenuous - she is either again being sarcastic or, possibly, as part of her huge pity party she will now make a point of staying at home for the next few weeks pretending it is out of concern for her safety when that's not what she believes at all.
She concludes by saying she has arranged a courier to deliver the children's Christmas presents.

Just text back 'okay'.

Sorry, accidentally touched the post button! Don't get into arguing or negotiation. You know her well enough to recognise when she's being disingenuous or manipulative, so say as little as possible and leave her her to it. If she wants to cut her nose off to spite her face, there's little you can do apart from not give her attention.
Have a lovely Christmas with your children.

I think u have everyright ti decide what u di as a family and what ur children do, and if u dont want to see ur mum or ur children thats ur right. Thankfully my mum hasnt throw her toys out prambut i wouldnt do anything just let her get in with it. I agree the comment about not being covid safe sounds like dig at u, as she clearly didnt care about anything being covid safe as was having children over to sleep

Well, if she’s having a knee operation on the 23rd, she won’t be able to walk on the lights trail anyway, will she? Job done.

Pp is right just say rightyouare mum that's fine hope your operation goes ok xx don't feed the beast it's only you who will end up feeling guilty or doubting yourself.

"Oh dear. That's a pity." and refuse to engage any further

We once had a family situation where we and the grandkids wanted to go somewhere that granma didn't. She was very huffy about us going there, but undeterred we set off anyway. It is a family legend that, while we were there she suddenly appeared, to announce "I'm just passing by on the way to the supermarket" (think some half hour detour!) and stomped off again!