Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Manipulative DM cancels Christmas to throw herself a pity party - help!!

260 replies

girasol · 16/12/2020 10:25

Aaaargh, what do I do?
I’m sorry for the length of the below, it's probably not an AIBU as I really don't think I am being unreasonable but anyway...

We had planned to see my parents (mid 70s, both have had major health problems in the past but are basically ok at the moment) at Christmas.
Hubby and I have been very careful throughout the pandemic – no eating in cafes/restaurants, no mixing indoors with anyone, both lucky to be able to work from home. Biggest risk has been from our kids (7 and 5) going to school.

My parents have gone the other way, acting like there is no pandemic, largely ignoring the restrictions (“I’m not having the government tell me what to do!” etc) – they eat out, go to the supermarket, my mum gets her nails done. This has continued even if they went into tier 3 after the lockdown (they live right on a T3/T2 boundary and to be fair to them the rates where they live are actually relatively low).

Back in the summer we booked a outdoor lights trail at a stately home between us for Xmas eve, then about 6 weeks ago we said we’d also be happy for the kids to stay over with them for one night on the basis that the risk of young kids spreading Covid seems to be much lower (albeit there is obviously still a risk) – hubby and I would not stay or be inside with them though. I’ve kept saying to them that they should avoid making concrete plans or getting their hopes up about it as we might not be able to go ahead with the plan – kids might need to isolate etc.

Now with rates escalating everywhere, multiple cases in our kids’ school (for the first time – son’s class has just finished a stint of isolation and at one point last week more than half the school was off), and us now bordering some T3 places I felt increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of letting the kids stay. My parents will hopefully be vaccinated within the next 1-2 months, and the kids won’t have been isolating because they’ll have been at school - it just felt like a risk that’s not worth taking.

I called my parents to tell them that we’re still v happy to go ahead with the lights trail but we’d like to postpone the sleepover bit (for the reasons given above). My mum responded by throwing her toys out of the pram and saying that if that’s how we feel, we should probably cancel the whole thing (ie the lights trail too). I reiterated we were very keen to go ahead with that bit and said we’d be happy to meet them for another day over the Christmas period and go somewhere else outdoors (I suggested a woods we’ve visited which is about halfway between us), so they would still get to spend the time with the kids, but she made it clear she wasn’t interested in this.

The difficulty is she has always been the queen of cutting off her nose to spite her face but it has got much worse in the last few year. She would genuinely rather cancel everything out of spite and spend the next month wallowing in self-pity, even if that means effectively punishing our children who won’t be able to see them at all.

After the initial call, hubby talked me into suggesting that we push back the sleepover until the end of the school holiday (probably new years day) – it would mean breaking the rules (no mixing of households by then, plus we’re not meant to travel to T3, which I wouldn’t be happy about), but obviously the risks would be much lower as we would have largely been isolating as a family for a good 10 days by then.

I called my parents again and spoke to my dad who said my mum was ‘very very upset’ by us postponing the sleepover, and that she now planned to try to arrange a minor surgical procedure on her knee for the day the kids were due to stay over with them (ie the day I’d suggested we now go to the woods) which would likely mean she couldn’t do the lights trail the next day either. We suggested the new year’s sleepover plan – my dad relayed this to my mum, but my mum said “Well they’ll only change their minds again so what’s the point?” and “We might be doing something else then, it’s too far ahead to plan” and “Well, we might give the children Covid, mightn’t we?!” – basically full of excuses. Because now she’s psyched herself up for a nice long pity party, she doesn’t want it to be snatched away from her, right?! Even if we were now willing to back down completely and go ahead with the original sleepover plan (which I am not willing to do), I think she would actually refuse.

I completely get that she is disappointed and upset, but she has zero interest in even trying to understand our point of view in all this which on any analysis is not unreasonable (again, this has become a recurring theme with her – she treats my views on many things with utter contempt).

I don’t know what to do now – the ball is in her court but knowing her I think it’s unlikely she will change her mind having slept on it – she is extremely stubborn and bloody minded. I would just leave her to it if it weren’t for the kids missing out.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience of dealing with this kind of behaviour please? Hubby thinks I just need to wait to hear back from her and if she still wants to cancel everything (which is very likely) we just say to her that we’re very disappointed, in particular for the children, and that we will have no choice but to tell them that their grandmother doesn’t want to see them over Christmas. That might be where we end up but I think that would shut the door on any chance of her agreeing to meet at all, so part of me is tempted to panda to her behaviour, objectionable though it is, just to try to salvage something for the kids.

Sorry this has been so long.

OP posts:
EvilPea · 16/12/2020 13:42

I am with you, I don't think your being overly precious. You love them and are trying to protect them, explain you love them, that you couldn't live with yourselves if you felt you were the ones to bring covid in, should they choose mot to see the children then you understand and will see them hopefully soon.

don't get drawn any further into the drama

GloGirl · 16/12/2020 13:43

@merrygoround51

Your DM and DF are the ones at risk really and they were comfortable with and looking forward to what you arranged. Now you cancelled it and they are hurt and disappointed and I think that’s understandable.
I agree with this. I think she's hurt after a shitty year and you can't keep expecting her to feel happy about it because you decided it. Give her time to come round and stop negotiating when she's in that mood
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/12/2020 13:48

[quote girasol]@EmbarrassingAdmissions my dad has an advance care plan, my mum has a letter of wishes which (unlike the former) is not legally binding. But both make clear they expect to be given all possible medical treatment in all scenarios, and they don't want treatment withholding or being withdrawn - right the other end of the spectrum from a DNR. I was a bit surprised TBH but they were both very firm about this.[/quote]
An advance care plan cannot force a doctor to give you any particular treatment; it can only specify treatments to which you don't consent. So you can instruct that you do not want to go to ITU and/or be ventilated, but you cannot insist that you will be.

Doctors will take preferences about treatment into account where they can but, if there aren't enough ITU beds, and someone else is accessed as higher priority, an advanced care plan will make no difference. The decision will be made on medical need.

GooseberryJam · 16/12/2020 13:48

My lovely mum is no longer here but I know that in this position she would have been thrilled at any opportunity to see her GC and would have agreed with whatever conditions I thought sensible for that because she'd get some GC time. No way would she have turned it down because it wasn't going to be exactly as she wanted it.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/12/2020 13:53

I think you're right about the risk, OP, but wrong in the way you have gone about this. You should have at least tried to involve your parents in the decision, even if - ultimately- you couldn't agree. A

Your DM is being a bit of a drama queen, but I don't blame her for being upset. And, tbh, I think she has a point about not wanting to make alternative plans, in case you change them again. If you have done it once unilaterally, it's not unreasonable for her to think you might do it again.

GooseberryJam · 16/12/2020 14:00

[quote girasol]@EmbarrassingAdmissions my dad has an advance care plan, my mum has a letter of wishes which (unlike the former) is not legally binding. But both make clear they expect to be given all possible medical treatment in all scenarios, and they don't want treatment withholding or being withdrawn - right the other end of the spectrum from a DNR. I was a bit surprised TBH but they were both very firm about this.[/quote]
They can expect all they like, but in reality, as @MissLucyEyelesbarrow said, none of that is going to cut any ice in a situation where treatment is hopeless. Doctors will make those decisions then regardless of any wishes expressed. It won't do you any good to tell them that, though, so I would just let them do what makes them feel better.

ginginchinchin · 16/12/2020 14:01

[quote 81Byerley]@ginginchinchin that's the sort of thing I hate to hear. I have children and grandchildren whom I absolutely adore. I'd love to see them, but I accept that I can't. And if by chance, the last time I saw them was the last (It was December 2019) then fine, I had a happy time with them then. I definitely wouldn't want to risk anybody's health , including my own, just so I could see them one last time. I definitely wouldn't want my family to feel guilty because I'd died and they they hadn't been to see me.[/quote]
It may be the sort of thing you hate to hear but it's relevant. I don't think you can control how regretful your family would feel that they couldn't hold your hand one last time. My husband is haunted every day because the last time he saw his brother he was on his way out and didn't have time to stay and talk to him. He died unexpectedly a week later. No one knows when someone is going to die, the only certainty is that at some point we're all going the same way.

The OP has decided the risk is hers to decide on without considering how her parents feel. I also have grandchildren and great-grandchildren and I will be seeing mine. The difference is that I've made certain that every one of them knows that the risk is mine to take, and that i could catch Covid from anywhere! I've also made sure they know if I suddenly die that I know they've always loved me, and that I've had a wonderful full life because they're part of it.

Children shouldn't be made to feel it might be their fault if other relatives catch this, it's a horrible way to make children feel. If you don't want to risk it - that's fine, if you do want to risk it - that's fine too but don't put a burden on children by making them feel they've done something outside their control.

www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html I've attached a breakdown of mortality rates taken from the above website.

Manipulative DM cancels Christmas to throw herself a pity party - help!!
LadyAddle · 16/12/2020 14:04

I think you're absolutely right OP, and your mother is behaving like a spoilt child. Decent grandparents do not add to the burdens of their children by throwing selfish tantrums. Leave her to it, and just try to soften the disappointment for your children of not seeing Granny this year.

saoirse31 · 16/12/2020 14:04

I think shes probably well within her rights to be annoyed with your re organising of dates, trying to make their decisions for them re what risks etc are acceptable to them. You are treating them as children essentially not competent to assess risk and make decsions. And she has a pt re the likelihood of you changing dates again anyway based on your OP.

Chathamhouserules · 16/12/2020 14:08

*merrygoround51

Your DM and DF are the ones at risk really and they were comfortable with and looking forward to what you arranged. Now you cancelled it and they are hurt and disappointed and I think that’s understandable.*

This is just incorrect. It's not an individual risk. Increasing the spread and number of cases has a much wider impact. Just think about impact on nhs if they are hospitalized. And delays in treatment for others that will cause. Or ongoing lockdown and the impact on livelihoods. And you could say 'well it's just two people but that's what the figures are made up of - individual cases.

Canwecancel2020 · 16/12/2020 14:10

@Scottishskifun

Personally if it was me I would reiterate we would love for you to join us, the kids are looking forward to it and seeing you both. I understand your disappointed about the sleep over but we would never forgive ourselves if the children gave you covid and something happened especially as we are so close to vaccination for you both. If at the end of the holidays then we know they pose no risk to you. I completely understand that this year has been incredibly stressful and tough and it may seem we are changing but the most important thing for me is to make sure that you're both here for many Christmases to come.

It might be easier to send as a text rather then saying on the phone then she can mull it over without arguing back!

Agree with this...

I feel similar to the OP with my parents... although they aren’t dramatic sorts and also seem to have lost their nerve recently (after months of thinking Boris can do no wrong and believing he’d clear the way for a fairly “normal” Christmas...) I think reality has hit. They live in tier 3 and go nowhere, we’re in low-numbers tier 2 but there have been odd cases in local schools, none affecting any of our kids bubbles as yet. Even if they’re fine with it, I couldn’t live with myself if we inadvertently made them ill, they aren’t the only ones allowed to make decisions about risks to themselves the people they love. You wouldn’t drive off with them in the car if they refused to wear a seatbelt.

Definitely don’t tell the kids grandma doesn’t want to see them.

Belladonna12 · 16/12/2020 14:11

The OP has decided the risk is hers to decide on without considering how her parents feel. I also have grandchildren and great-grandchildren and I will be seeing mine. The difference is that I've made certain that every one of them knows that the risk is mine to take, and that i could catch Covid from anywhere! I've also made sure they know if I suddenly die that I know they've always loved me, and that I've had a wonderful full life because they're part of it.

Just because the OP has made the decision that her DM doesn't like, it doesn't mean she didn't consider her DM's feelings. You can consider someone's feelings but still make a decision that they don't like. We are not OP's children stay at her parents house is OP's decision to make not her parents.

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 16/12/2020 14:12

You're applying the rules arbitrarily and your DM is at least asking you to be consistent. She may be manipulative. She may be feeling sorry for herself but there is more logic in her position than in your's.

HarrietOh · 16/12/2020 14:12

@ginginchinchin

But that's the selfish view, this isn't about individuals and their risk etc. Why is one family seeing their more older relatives more important than everyone else?
This is about taking up hospital space and preventing others from accessing treatment because of that.

Belladonna12 · 16/12/2020 14:12

We are not whether or not

ScalpHelp · 16/12/2020 14:14

Just leave her to it.

She wouldn’t behave like this if it didn’t get her attention/results in the past.

Ignore her and don’t rise to it

BuggerationFlavouredCrisps · 16/12/2020 14:16

I am in my fifties and haven’t seen my grandson for about 2 years now as we live abroad. Honestly, I don’t accept this bollocks that not seeing grandparents or doing sleepovers is remotely damaging to their relationship. There are other ways to keep in touch.

I agree that your mum is being childish and making everything about her but you don’t have to toe the line. You’re an adult and entitled to make your own decisions based on your assessment of the risks.

caperplips · 16/12/2020 14:19

I don't know what the right course of action is but I utterly disagree with the stance that as adults they know the risks and are comfortable taking them. Really? Coz I just don't think this is true.
Sure, comfortable taking the risk once it all works out in their favour but if they pick up covid from you or your children and one of them dies, alone, in hospital in the loneliest and scariest of circumstances, or gets long covid and is left very compromised - will they be comfortable and happy with the risk they took then?

The vaccine is SO close and you have not said they can't see their grandchildren at all....they are being unreasonable and I have to say my family are acting similar and it is VERY wearying and actually takes any excitement / pleasure of visiting away for me.

Canwecancel2020 · 16/12/2020 14:20

[quote Camenon]I'm fed up with some old people

PlanDeRaccordement · 16/12/2020 14:20

I think the DMs bad knee is part of her decision too. OP said that her DM is in need of surgery on her knee. OP seemed a bit upset that DM is prioritising surgery on her knee over going on the festive lights walk.

But logically, the DM must be in some amount of knee pain and her mobility must be affected if she has been advised to have surgery in next few months. So as much as OP thinks a festive light walk at a stately home is a great Christmas activity, it completely disregards her DMs current knee issues and limited mobility. To the DM, walking around at night, for several hours in the cold to see some festive lights is probably a bad idea for a Christmas activity as she will undoubtedly be in some pain during and after it. She may even be worried about the darkness and stumbling/tripping and causing herself further injury. It may even make her knee swell up and be inoperable for some weeks after.

So I don’t think the DM is flouncing by cancelling the festive light walk and trying to get her knee surgery done sooner rather than later. I have had a bad knee injury that needed surgery myself and I know that I was in constant pain and no way would I have thought a long walk in the dark and cold was a good idea.

caperplips · 16/12/2020 14:25

well the DM was happy to go on the walk AND have the kids on a sleepover literally until the dd said the sleepover part might not be a good idea due to being indoors etc whilst an outdoor walk is ideal.

And hey presto...suddenly the GM now can't do the walk...

ginginchinchin · 16/12/2020 14:27

[quote HarrietOh]@ginginchinchin

But that's the selfish view, this isn't about individuals and their risk etc. Why is one family seeing their more older relatives more important than everyone else?
This is about taking up hospital space and preventing others from accessing treatment because of that.[/quote]
For the greater good eh? Ok I'm selfish in your opinion but not in mine. We'll have to differ.

PlanDeRaccordement · 16/12/2020 14:32

@caperplips

well the DM was happy to go on the walk AND have the kids on a sleepover literally until the dd said the sleepover part might not be a good idea due to being indoors etc whilst an outdoor walk is ideal.

And hey presto...suddenly the GM now can't do the walk...

We don’t know she was happy to go on the walk. She might have agreed to it to please her DD and the sleepover was a quid pro quo to please herself. Or she might have been happy in the summer when the tickets were bought but now her knee is too bad? And she was reluctant to say anything until her DD cancelled the sleepover?
Chathamhouserules · 16/12/2020 14:40

For the greater good eh? Ok I'm selfish in your opinion but not in mine. We'll have to differ.
Can you explain why you dont think its selfish to add to the spread of the virus?

Serenity45 · 16/12/2020 14:40

Let her tantrum. Your kids aren't missing out on seeing an adult baby throwing her toys out of the pram. They can see her when it's safe for everyone, when you decide.

This. She's acting like a spoilt brat

Swipe left for the next trending thread