Page 9 | To think this is unacceptable?

flaviaritt · 2020-12-14T08:07:17+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9048759/Family-kicked-United-flight-New-Jersey-toddler-refused-wear-mask.html]] This family were forced to leave a flight home because their two year old wouldn’t ‘comply’ with mask-wearing. She’s 2. Has the world gone mad? Surely it’s common sense that a young child should not be forced into a mask? Surely it’s a violation of the rights of the child to insist upon this?

NoSleepInTheHeat · 14/12/2020 12:15

@flaviaritt

Of course it’s not ‘violence’ that their policy includes 2 year olds. I have a 2 year old and she’s quite happy wearing a mask on the odd occasion.

And if she wasn’t happy? Would you force her?

Well, parents do 'force' their baby to have vaccine jabs, they 'force' their toddler to keep on their coat on during winter, we 'force' them to hold our hands when crossing the road. So yes basically I feel it is ok to 'force' a child to do something to prevent them or other people from getting very sick/injured.

Cocomarine · 14/12/2020 12:16

@Hayeahnobut

Did a bit of research, the mother is a Trump supporting, covid denying Instagram 'star'. It would be interesting to know what happened before the video, as this comes across as a publicity stunt.

Thank you for doing the research for me. One look at the OP and I thought, “yeah, bet that’s bollocks”.

Like my local breastfeeding evangelist who managed to get snarky comments and asked to leave multiple cafés - on the same high street where I breastfed LOADS and no issue at all.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 12:17

Well, parents do 'force' their baby to have vaccine jabs, they 'force' their toddler to keep on their coat on during winter, we 'force' them to hold our hands when crossing the road

all of these things are for the childs benefit.

So yes basically I feel it is ok to 'force' a child to do something to prevent them or other people from getting very sick/injured

this is not for the child's benefit, this is for the benefit of strangers - v different.

Leaannb · 14/12/2020 12:17

@SleepingStandingUp

In my state children under 5 are exempt from wearing masks. Most do though. Yes they are expected to wear masks all day at school see that worries me more, there's so much more to communication with little ones than the words that come out and at that age lots don't have perfectly clear diction

Our school transmission rate is extremely high and completely out of control. We have lost several teachers with no underlying health conditions to Covid.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 12:21

We have lost several teachers with no underlying health conditions to Covid

That is very very unlucky, and incredibly uncommon. I don't think we should mask five years olds based on one anecdote.

slashlover · 14/12/2020 12:24

@17days

Oh God I didn't realise this was a flaviaritt thread. Surely it won't be long now until every user recognises the username and learns to steer well clear?

Hopefully it will happen soon. I was burned before in the "if you only buy a treat for your child and not the whole street then you are MEAN AND ABUSIVE thread".

SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 12:25

@Leaannb I'm not saying it isn't necessary, just worse than asking a 2 yo to wear one so they can hop on a plane for dinner.

Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone · 14/12/2020 12:30

@flaviaritt

I know it’s their policy. And yet, a policy expecting a 2 year old to wear a mask is inhumane and - I would argue - is a violence to the child.

Sorry it really isn't. Mumsnet posters seem to get more and more hysterical by the day. Over 2's wear a mask no exceptions. Don't want to then dont fly United. I'm fed up with those in the UK inventing reasons why cannot wear a mask yet most of Asia and China seems to not have these conditions that prevent mask use. Violence against the child just undermines real violence against children

Original poster

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 12:31

I agree that it’s different when your action is for the child’s benefit. We all agree that drugging kids with calpol is abuse... unless they are in pain (the drug is for the pain). We all agree that removing a child’s leg would be abusive, but not if the leg is gangrenous. We all agree that hitting a child hard on the back is abusive, unless the child is choking. There are many examples of things that are fine when they are in the interests of the child that are not justifiable for other reasons.

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Bollss · 14/12/2020 12:34

I'm fed up with those in the UK inventing reasons why cannot wear a mask yet most of Asia and China seems to not have these conditions that prevent mask use

Yeah, they also do a lot of other things over there that we wouldn't dream of doing over here.... I hate it when people wheel this out as if China's is an example we should follow. Urgh.

Original poster

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 12:36

I hate it when people wheel this out as if China's is an example we should follow. Urgh.

Exactly. Lots of countries and states perpetrate abuses against their citizens. Including some states in the United States, if they are mandating masks for 2 year olds.

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SantasBritchesSpelleas · 14/12/2020 12:36

YABU - this is how cases spread, people thinking the rules don't apply to them/their children

GabsAlot · 14/12/2020 12:40

if its their policy then fly with someone else-dont get on a plane then start filming it

oh and flying somewhere to go for dinner is stupid beyond reason

Original poster

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 12:43

SantasBritchesSpelleas

Here, this rule wouldn’t apply to a 2 year old. Luckily, our government knows this is inhumane and has made a sensible exception to the rules.

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SantasBritchesSpelleas · 14/12/2020 12:48

@flaviaritt

SantasBritchesSpelleas

Here, this rule wouldn’t apply to a 2 year old. Luckily, our government knows this is inhumane and has made a sensible exception to the rules.

But this didn't take place here - it took place in the States, where case levels are much higher at the moment than in the UK.

CoronaIsWatching · 14/12/2020 12:49

The 2 year old shouldn't be flying to start with

Leaannb · 14/12/2020 12:49

@TrustTheGeneGenie

We have lost several teachers with no underlying health conditions to Covid

That is very very unlucky, and incredibly uncommon. I don't think we should mask five years olds based on one anecdote.

Its not uncommon at all. The US has lost over 300 school personnel since schools reopened. Its not ancetodal. Its pure basic facts. Reported in all of our media. They need to wear masks

Brefugee · 14/12/2020 12:49

When this is all over people will not forget the companies who have been utter dicks.

being in a state (thanks to the pp who highlighted this) - New Jersey - that mandates masks for everyone over 2, and enforcing this on their planes isn't being an utter dick. In fact I rather think they are thinking of all their other passengers and not a potentially covid spreader, no matter how small and cute they might be.

I will definitely remember companies who try to keep me and my granny and everyone else safe.

I agree that it’s different when your action is for the child’s benefit.

Over the last few months (years, actually, since the Brexit vote) i have been trying to put my finger on what it is about the UK that puts me off ever wanting to live there again and it is this attitude of "only I count" that seems to be spreading like knotweed.

We are social animals and we live in society, it is for everyone's benefit that we wear masks, and individual "i'm to special for a maskers" can fuck off as far as i'm concerned.

Inhumane is having a rule and letting a Very Special Kind of Family flaunt it and put everyone else on the plane at risk

This thread is entertaining in a completely batshit way and almost makes up for the lack of Complete Knobs On Aeroplane threads that we didn't get in the holiday season.

Leaannb · 14/12/2020 12:51

@SantasBritchesSpelleas...Our cases are extremely high. We are averaging about 5000 new cases a day in my state

TheSunIsStillShining · 14/12/2020 12:51

@brefugee

Well put, exactly!
Your reasons for not wanting to live here are our reasons to move as soon as school is over....

EnPoinsettia · 14/12/2020 12:51

@flaviaritt

I agree that it’s different when your action is for the child’s benefit. We all agree that drugging kids with calpol is abuse... unless they are in pain (the drug is for the pain). We all agree that removing a child’s leg would be abusive, but not if the leg is gangrenous. We all agree that hitting a child hard on the back is abusive, unless the child is choking. There are many examples of things that are fine when they are in the interests of the child that are not justifiable for other reasons.

COVID-19 linked to increase in type 1 diabetes in children

Leaannb · 14/12/2020 12:52

@flaviaritt

I hate it when people wheel this out as if China's is an example we should follow. Urgh.

Exactly. Lots of countries and states perpetrate abuses against their citizens. Including some states in the United States, if they are mandating masks for 2 year olds.

Are our 2 you and their teachers somehow immune?

Original poster

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 12:52

But this didn't take place here - it took place in the States, where case levels are much higher at the moment than in the UK.

It’s not about case numbers. By all accounts, China controlled the virus in some areas by nailing people inside their homes. Regardless of case numbers, some things are not acceptable. Forcibly masking 2 year olds is a violation of their rights as children, for unpleasant things to be done to them only in their own interests.

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SantasBritchesSpelleas · 14/12/2020 12:53

[quote Leaannb]@SantasBritchesSpelleas...Our cases are extremely high. We are averaging about 5000 new cases a day in my state[/quote]
That must be very frightening. I'm in a 'Tier 3' area of the UK but thankfully the tier 3 measures seem to be bringing our cases down at the moment.

Original poster

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 12:53

Are our 2 you and their teachers somehow immune?

This is irrelevant. It’s not acceptable to forcibly mask them. We all live with some risk.

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