To think this is unacceptable?

[flaviaritt]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9048759/Family-kicked-United-flight-New-Jersey-toddler-refused-wear-mask.html

This family were forced to leave a flight home because their two year old wouldn’t ‘comply’ with mask-wearing.

She’s 2.

Has the world gone mad? Surely it’s common sense that a young child should not be forced into a mask? Surely it’s a violation of the rights of the child to insist upon this?

EnPoinsettia

But even if that represented a severe risk, the masks aren’t to protect the child. They don’t work that way.

China controlled the virus in some areas by nailing people inside their homes. Regardless of case numbers, some things are not acceptable.

I agree, but you can't compare asking a child to wear a mask for the duration of a flight to nailing people inside their houses.

*Over the last few months (years, actually, since the Brexit vote) i have been trying to put my finger on what it is about the UK that puts me off ever wanting to live there again and it is this attitude of "only I count" that seems to be spreading like knotweed.

We are social animals and we live in society, it is for everyone's benefit that we wear masks, and individual "i'm to special for a maskers" can fuck off as far as i'm concerned.*

I don’t need to work out why I don’t want to live in the US. I’ve got that figured out.

Of course I am not the only person who counts. I wear my mask without complaint. That doesn’t mean I think it is okay to force every single human being into one, regardless of health status, age, capacity to consent etc. Because human rights violations are a real thing.

I agree, but you can't compare asking a child to wear a mask for the duration of a flight to nailing people inside their houses.

I didn’t. I am pointing out that ‘but it works’ isn’t a valid justification. There are other factors you have to consider, including proportionality.

Its not uncommon at all. The US has lost over 300 school personnel since schools reopened. Its not ancetodal. Its pure basic facts. Reported in all of our media. They need to wear masks

young healthy teachers with no underlying conditions dropping dead of covid is hugely uncommon

@flaviaritt

Are our 2 you and their teachers somehow immune?

This is irrelevant. It’s not acceptable to forcibly mask them. We all live with some risk.

Our teachers are dying. Our children our developing MIS-13...What is the point of masks mandates anyway by your logic.

@flaviaritt

I agree, but you can't compare asking a child to wear a mask for the duration of a flight to nailing people inside their houses.

I didn’t. I am pointing out that ‘but it works’ isn’t a valid justification. There are other factors you have to consider, including proportionality.

OK then, I would justify making the child wear the mask on the grounds it both works and is proportionate.

I’m glad I live in the U.K.

FGS, these are airlines. Their industry's continued operation depends massively on their ability to avoid flight-related infections so they've set strict controls which include children aged 2 and up wearing masks.

The US is not the UK. There are differences in litigiousness for starters that mean companies are taking stronger precautions. Not just that, but 2-year-olds, or even family units, aren't making a huge profit for airlines. About 75% of their profits come from business travellers. Their restrictions will obviously gear to protecting that line of revenue.

If you know you need to fly in the US right now, you prepare your child for mask-wearing or you don't fly. You've prepared them for wearing coats, hats, shoes and all other manners of garments. That's what you sacrifice to fly in a global pandemic.

Our teachers are dying. Our children our developing MIS-13...What is the point of masks mandates anyway by your logic.

Unfortunately, human beings are susceptible to viruses, including teachers. It’s not an excuse to abuse 2 year olds.

I would justify making the child wear the mask on the grounds it both works and is proportionate.

It’s not proportionate. Most 2 year olds would find it highly distressing, and that is a good enough reason not to force it on them. They’re too young to understand it.

That's ridiculous, the only mask a two year old would ever wear would be a gaffa tape one.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Its not uncommon at all. The US has lost over 300 school personnel since schools reopened. Its not ancetodal. Its pure basic facts. Reported in all of our media. They need to wear masks

young healthy teachers with no underlying conditions dropping dead of covid is hugely uncommon

www.asumag.com/covid-19/article/21130609/72-employees-in-the-new-york-city-district-have-died-from-covid19-virus

www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2020-09-11/demetria-bannisters-coronavirus-death-highlights-vulnerability-of-teachers

Do I need to keep going? My son's history teacher teacher died last week. She was 25 yo and the same age as my oldest. She went to school with him Its not uncommon. Its not rare. Its happening. The young and healthy are not immune and they are dying also

An any one provide a scientific study that proves masks reduce community transmission?
I haven’t seen any evidence at all to suggest it helps, and in fact since mask wearing was made mandatory in the summer the rates of covid have gone up.
Given that a young child is likely to touch and pull at the mask as well as yell and scream, I would have thought trying to enforce this is counter productive and more likely to cause spread of the disease.
Surely Mask wearing will only work if masks are worn correctly and most 2 year olds aren’t capable of doing this.

@flaviaritt

I would justify making the child wear the mask on the grounds it both works and is proportionate.

It’s not proportionate. Most 2 year olds would find it highly distressing, and that is a good enough reason not to force it on them. They’re too young to understand it.

They don't find ot all that distressing once they get use to it. Just like the rest of us. Its a hot accessory around the preschool set and kindergarteners

of course its not violence to the child

just don't take them on the flight .

or anywhere else that says its mandatory .

That's the choice .

@flaviaritt

I know it’s their policy. And yet, a policy expecting a 2 year old to wear a mask is inhumane and - I would argue - is a violence to the child.

So the child's parents should not have put her in a situation where they knew she was expected to wear a mask.

Nobody was forced to do anything. They were making a choice to make a non essential trip to meet friends for dinner. Hardly life and death, unless of course they are spreading covid.

@DinkyDiggies

yes there is now and there is a whole thread on here with links to research if you want to check it out .

Anyone with any common sense knows that everything we do is only reducing risk not eliminating it .

They are shit parents for even putting their child in that position.
Why would you do that to your child?
You know the rules and you prepare them accordingly Or you stay home in the middle of a pandemic that’s killed almost 300,000 people in your country.
Seriously they are just shit.

The airline has rules and it’s a requirement to follow them to travel.

My 3 year old happily wears a mask but we started in short bursts, got one in a pattern she liked, made sure it was as comfortable as possible and made a game of it.

@Leaannb

that's so sad . I guess it makes sense that although deaths in younger groups are rare - the more cases you have the more these rare cases are going to occur .

you are in the USA ? And your figures are increasing I understand ?

Madness I agree.

They don't find ot all that distressing once they get use to it. Just like the rest of us. Its a hot accessory around the preschool set and kindergarteners

Hmm. It’s interesting that here, where parents can but do not have to mask their 2 year olds, they don’t. This pandemic has been around for the best part of a year. I’ve seen one child that young in a mask. So here, clearly, in spite of several posters who clearly have a bee on their bonnet about it, most people recognise it as something they don’t think is right for their child. Most people I know wouldn’t dream of it.

Get a new hobby, OP.

@flaviaritt

I know it’s their policy. And yet, a policy expecting a 2 year old to wear a mask is inhumane and - I would argue - is a violence to the child.

So is it the airline being inhumane or the parents, who know the airline's rules and still subject their child to them, who are inhumane?

FWIW, I don't agree with masks on children, but if a business has some condition that I think ludicrous, I avoid that business rather than subject myself or a loved one to stupid conditions, or the ensuing fight.

@Unsure33 - it’s about reducing risk I agree. But surely a quiet 2 year old who sits nicely is a lower risk that non compliant one who is yanking at a mask and screaming about it.

2 is too young, you can’t reason or bribe, so the policy is unfair.