Withholding pudding if child hasn't eaten 'enough'

[Toriathebadger]

I'm a bit torn about this. DS3 (4) is becoming fussy, I think it's just a phase as he's always been a good eater and has plenty of fruit and veg. Just lately he's hardly been eating his meal and says he's gone off a lot of the food he would usually eat. His dad (ex dp) expects me to withhold pudding if ds hasn't eaten 'enough'. He does it with his dd (from previous) who is a fussy eater. He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think there's a happy medium here, as I encourage ds to eat a bit more but ultimately if he's finished then I let him have pudding and don't make an issue out of it. Ex is horrified and thinks I'm ridiculous.

Who is being unreasonable? Either of us? Just different parenting styles?

@TheChristmasPrincess

In my experience I would say around 7ish. That’s around the age I was allowed to assess what I was allowed to leave on my plate as well as when my nieces seemed capable of making an informed decision and understanding that if they left their dinner they wouldn’t be getting anything again until the morning.

If DC told me they were finished and had only eaten half of their food, I tell them “you do understand that if I take your plate away, you won’t be getting a pudding?” I think there has only been one time where they have said okay and been happy to leave the table. The rest of the time they have kicked off because they had wanted to leave food in order to get their pudding quicker. When asked if they wanted to resume eating and then having a pudding, they begrudgingly eat until they’ve eaten what I deem an acceptable amount.

The grandparents and eating question is a source of great contention at the moment 😆

I’m not surprised. My PIL tried to do the same than you and we had to have harsh words about it.

I had one child who would have eaten the whole house at 5yo and didn’t know when to stop. He needed to learn to stop when he wasn’t hungry. Not encouraged to overeat.
The other had chronic constipation and as a result hardly ate (he didn’t put any weight on for 2 years and massively dropped in centile in height too. Think lethargic child etc...). The worst was to force him to eat stuff he didn’t want and refuse the one thing that would give him some energy. Esp as he would have refused to eat the so called appropriate amount

We don't make our 5 year old eat anything she doesn't want too, nor do we deny her any food that she does want. We don't have 'special' food - food is food, it means that nothing is really viewed as a treat (apart from things like actual birthday cakes). She eats a balanced diet, shes a healthy weight, full of energy, her teeth are in good condition and she knows when shes full and isn't fussed about having a dessert if she is full because she knows it isn't a reward its just extra food. I do think it depends on the child, our way wouldn't work for every child but I do think its better than turning meal times into a battle.

you don't want to encourage overeating. if they are full they are full. I give pudding as it is usually fruit.

Those of you smugly announcing that your kids are only 'offered yoghurt' should probably check the sugar content the next time you chuck a petit filou their way. Also - "fruit" doesn't equal "healthy" - citrus, grapes, and apples are full of sugar AND acid which are a horrible combination for their little teeth.

I don’t see fruit or yoghurt as being a pudding. Surely they are just another part of the meal. Would you refuse to serve up the fish or main course if the starter wasn’t completely finished? 🤷🏻‍♀️ Why don’t you try serving up everything together so she can pick what she wants and whether she is more inclined to eat anything savoury after the fruit. Sometimes a bigger grazing plate can work well with children that age.

@FightingWithTheWind, "food is just food" is one of the central messages that DS dietician gives out. Some foods are better for our bodies than others and we should try get as many of those as we can, but ultimately it is only fuel - it doesn't have feelings or thoughts, and it doesn't have value traits like good or bad.

We don't use food as a reward or a punishment, we don't ever ask for "one more bite", we don't bribe, we don't persuade, we don't cajole. The food gets out into the middle of the table along with either a yoghurt each or a piece of fruit each for the DC. We all sit down. We put what we want onto our own plates. Once the meal is finished then it all gets taken away without comment.

If any of the DC don't eat much then I try stretch them to the next meal but if that is going to be a long time (e.g., overnight to breakfast) or they ate next to nothing or are particularly hungry then around an hour after the meal I give them a snack of toast/cheese and crackers/fruit/veggie sticks and dip.

@Wroxie

Those of you smugly announcing that your kids are only 'offered yoghurt' should probably check the sugar content the next time you chuck a petit filou their way. Also - "fruit" doesn't equal "healthy" - citrus, grapes, and apples are full of sugar AND acid which are a horrible combination for their little teeth.

A petit filou is a petit filou though, not a yoghurt. A sensible portion of fruit at a mealtime is the best time for it to be served in terms of acid on teeth, and lots of fruit isn’t acidic. It’s very presumptuous to assume you know best what people mean by yoghurt and fruit.

Only on here is it deemed as smug to offer your child yoghurt and fruit, FFS. There are plenty of yoghurts without added sugar, flavourings, additives or sweeteners- natural yoghurt for example. All fruit has vitamins and nutrients in, so even if they do contain naturally occuring sugars which they do, they are of more value to a balanced diet than a lot of things.

@Wroxie

Those of you smugly announcing that your kids are only 'offered yoghurt' should probably check the sugar content the next time you chuck a petit filou their way. Also - "fruit" doesn't equal "healthy" - citrus, grapes, and apples are full of sugar AND acid which are a horrible combination for their little teeth.

All carbohydrates - including vegetables - are broken down into sugars when digested. Fruit is healthy and is ideally eaten with meals, not as snacks, so that teeth aren't repeatedly exposed to acidity.

And some kids prefer natural yoghurt, unsweetened - mine did (they really did - the little freaks )

Put it back on him. When he's stopped eating his main - and don't sweat which bits of it he's eaten, eg all the potato but left the green veg, or how much - give him a minute then say 'are you full?' he will very likely say yes, in the expectation that pudding will appear. It doesn't.

Remove the plate, being very cheerful about it, and when he asks for pudding tell him 'but you said you were full so there can't be any room in your tummy for pudding'. Confound him with logic!!

PS I would only put, on a small plate or even a saucer, the bare minimum you would be happy with eating. Don't overface him. If he still leaves stuff, then as above.

Remove the plate, being very cheerful about it, and when he asks for pudding tell him 'but you said you were full so there can't be any room in your tummy for pudding'. Confound him with logic!! No child in my family would accept that as logic. They will all tell you there is a special place in their tummy for pudding so even if they have had a huge meal, you would need to see teenage GC eat to believe it, they still have the pudding space left.

I agree with your ex but it isn't his place to "expect" you to do anything.

Also, most adults are massive hypocrites about fussy eating. I bet there are loads of foods that you and your DH never buy/make, because you don't like them, OP. It's easy for you because you can just choose to avoid them. Children don't have that choice

I don't think this is strictly true in all cases though.

If I could literally eat whatever I wanted I'm sure I'd not eat that healthy either. I have vegetables with every meal because it's good for me, not necessarily because I always want them. I'll have fruit instead of a chocolate bar as a snack for the same reason. Doesn't mean I wouldn't really prefer to have the chocolate bar!

It's the same with the kids. They don't hate the veg on their plate. But they are kids. They prefer other stuff and will try and get out of eating it if allowed.

Maybe we are just shit parents but I know ours wouldn't touch fruit or veg hardly if they were given a choice all the time!

I would never force a child to sit at a table long after everyone else had left, if they didn't eat "enough". What I would do is what my parents did. If I didn't eat enough (not an issue of "clean your plate" but "enough for a child your age to stay healthy"), I was told that I could go play, but the plate would be covered and kept in the fridge, and if I became hungry later on, before the next mealtime, I would be given back my plate, reheated if necessary. No sweets, cake, or whatever else until I had eaten what my mother deemed a healthy amount.

I don't remember this happening very often, so I guess it was effective, and it seems reasonable to me.

I am a dinner lady with 9/10 year olds. and we are expected to make sure that the children have eaten enough so I suggest to them that they eat some more of what is on their plate if they think they will be hungry later and tell them to choose one thing to finish that is on their plate. I don't know if that is the right approach but it seems to be accepted by the children. Sometimes they will say no, they won't be hungry later so that's their choice.

@IGetIt - this is exactly it! My DS6 isn’t very motivated by food (he never asks for snacks, never complains about being hungry, takes an age to eat meals). He’s also rather fussy. Though obviously he likes sweet things!

I’ve tried following the widely held advice that your job stops when you serve the food and they choose to eat or not eat. All that happened was DS started losing weight and eating just the blandest thing on his plate.

DC eat or don't eat as they please, fine, they don't have to finish (they do need to sample everything). Everyone stays at the table together until the meal is over, no leaving early and no staying after, all alone. They are welcome to another glass of water while we all chat and eat, if they aren't hungry.

But... no pudding or snacks or crisps or biscuits if you don't eat a reasonable amount of food at mealtimes. No filling up on crap.

Most dc would trade off dinner for pudding or crisps if that was on offer. Lots of adults still do.

If I could literally eat whatever I wanted I'm sure I'd not eat that healthy either. I have vegetables with every meal because it's good for me, not necessarily because I always want them. I'll have fruit instead of a chocolate bar as a snack for the same reason. Doesn't mean I wouldn't really prefer to have the chocolate bar! But are there things you don't buy because you don't like them? I eat a wide variety of foods, I like vegetables, I love potatoes, I love salads and I also love cake and chocolate but I never buy liver because I don't like it, I never buy kidneys because I don't like them either, I don't buy pork as my husband doesn't like it. So I don't think I'm particularly fussy but I might not enjoy a meal at someone else's house if they decide to serve liver and they might think I'm a fussy eater. I'm not, I just don't like liver.

[quote Porcupineinwaiting]@diddl not as ridiculous as giving a child whose just "too full" to eat some veg (cal 26) a bolus of sugar (cal 200).

This thread tells us everything about childhood obesity we need to know.[/quote]
@Porcupineinwaiting

If a child is actually full, then absolutely they shouldn't be encouraged to eat any more food (whether veg or sugar)

But if you're talking about a child who doesn't like the food in front of them, I think it's not helpful to force them to eat more of that food, or to think of pudding as a reward

I don't think food should ever be treated as a punishment or a reward

Depends on pudding

If not hungry for dinner, then is not hungry enough for a sweet pudding

But would allow fruit for example

Would never force a child to eat more than they was comfortable with

If I gave you all two foods you'd never eaten and said that Food A has to be eaten first because it's good for you and that you can only have Food B as a treat, if you eat A, what would you conclude about Foods A and B?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow that's what I was trying to say, but you expressed it better than me

Is this a serious question. If someone offered me some savoury mush, or a sweet putdding, of course I would take the pudding

If I gave you all two foods you'd never eaten and said that Food A has to be eaten first because it's good for you and that you can only have Food B as a treat, if you eat A, what would you conclude about Foods A and B?

That Food B was full of fat and sugar.

@Benjispruce2

If you’re too full for dinner, no room for pudding. Kids don’t need pudding anyway. Offer fruit.

Does anyone need pudding though?

As an adult, if there's a pudding, I'll eat less of the main to save room.

So pehaps kids should be allowed to do that?

In which case, how much of a meal is enough when there's pudding on offer?

I’m not a pudding person so perhaps easy for me to say. But, children are learning and forming habits whereas adults know better.