Withholding pudding if child hasn't eaten 'enough'

[Toriathebadger]

I'm a bit torn about this. DS3 (4) is becoming fussy, I think it's just a phase as he's always been a good eater and has plenty of fruit and veg. Just lately he's hardly been eating his meal and says he's gone off a lot of the food he would usually eat. His dad (ex dp) expects me to withhold pudding if ds hasn't eaten 'enough'. He does it with his dd (from previous) who is a fussy eater. He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think there's a happy medium here, as I encourage ds to eat a bit more but ultimately if he's finished then I let him have pudding and don't make an issue out of it. Ex is horrified and thinks I'm ridiculous.

Who is being unreasonable? Either of us? Just different parenting styles?

Having said that, it'd be rare for us to have had dessert. Do people really do that every day? I can't really see the point but to each their own.

@Porcupineinwaiting

Absolutely Lemon The main cause of obesity in the UK is not eating enough pudding.

You're both wrong.

His style of parenting causes food disorders. It can lead to over eating for the sake of it. Loads of people were made to feel guilty for not clearing their plate, I know one person who will make themselves sick just to clear their plate.

Your parenting is rewarding bad behaviour. No child is going to eat vegetables if they don't have to and will get chocolate anyway. They will say 'not hungry' and get dessert.

If a person is not hungry, then they don't eat. It's as simple as that. If they are full, they are full. You don't then go and eat more just because you didnt want the veggies. You have to have a balanced diet, and your method will likely lead to a sugar based diet. Your exs will likely lead to a food disorder.

@Porcupineinwaiting

Absolutely Lemon The main cause of obesity in the UK is not eating enough pudding.

Emotional eating is a big contributor. And there is a growing body of evidence which suggests that using food as a tool or as a reward regularly with children may be associated with a greater risk of emotional eating.

academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/92/2/359/4597330

And research also shows that making one food conditional on another actually increases a child’s liking of the reward food and decreases their liking of the food you want them to eat more of.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/002209659290049C

The scientific consensus is actually pretty overwhelming on this point. But it’s one of those instances where parental instincts will continue to defy good practice, because ‘that’s what we’ve always done’ or ‘that’s what makes sense to me’.

A lot of rubbish gets written about French children and eating. Coming from a half-French family, I can confirm that - sadly - it's a myth that every French toddler eats everything on their plate while being immaculately behaved at the table. But....

....the one massive factor where France and the UK differ on kids eating is enjoyment. For French parents, the main reason you try to get your child to eat a range of foods is because they are nice. 10 pages into this thread, I haven't seen a single mention of enjoyment. Food for kids in the UK is weirdly punitive. No wonder the poor fuckers don't want to eat it, if they're stuck at the table, forcing down something they hate, and if the best reason parents can come up with is "It's good for you", What kind of incentive is that?

If I gave you all two foods you'd never eaten and said that Food A has to be eaten first because it's good for you and that you can only have Food B as a treat, if you eat A, what would you conclude about Foods A and B?

We internalised food messages very young so will tend to parent the way we were patented I think. It is hard to break it.

I don't think kids should ever be forced to eat more than they need to. It gives them a warped idea of what eating is all about (i.e. it is for fuel, not to earn the right to eat pudding).

I had it drilled into me as a kid that I had to clear my plate, and as a result I absolutely hate leaving anything at all, even now as a 30yo adult. I don't think I'd be the weight I am without this mentality.

Make sure he does actually like the food you're giving him. I wouldn't offer a sweet pudding at all, a piece of fruit is enough. I don't know what this obsession is with Brits having to have something sweet after their savoury course. It's weird.

Have healthy snacks available at all times, so fruit, nuts (if the children are a bit older) healthy cereal bars .. you can also make your own ice lollies from fruit juice. Whatever - but don't get into the habit of them thinking that chocolate and cake and the like are the god tier snacks, or they'll always be seeking them out.

If adults behaved about vegetables like they do about cake, kids would always want those, too!

Yes that's what I thought, Christmas, but it does work. You can always go back for more. Depends how old your kids are - my 13yo is quite sensible about food - takes what he knows he can eat, my 9yo I have to remind to take what she is definitely going to eat and come back for more if she's still hungry. Then they can set the bar lower without worrying there'll be nothing left.

Just sitting knitting and watching an episode of My 600lb Life. the woman weighs about 700lbs and blames it on an over controlling mother who put her on her first diet at 3.

No food was ever a treat or bad in my house, if my kids were having a treat on the way home from school they could choose fruit or sweets (shops nextdoor to each other) they probably chose fruit more than sweets.

If you don't want him to eat pudding don't do pudding but that should be for everyone not as a punishment for him.

I don’t expect clean plates but I do expect a reasonable effort to have been especially with veg etc. We don’t have pudding every night but I agree with other posters I’d they aren’t hungry enough to make a decent effort then they can’t be hungry enough for pudding.

I disagree with posters who say it leads to eating issues surely this depends on the child/set up? The way I do it is the way my parents did it and I have never had any issues with over eating and not knowing when I’m full and neither have any of my 4 siblings, we are all healthy weights and so are my children

My eldest (12) will often play with her food or eat very little and then expect to eat snacks later in the evening, I’m sorry but if she ate more dinner she wouldn’t need to snack surely or would want a piece of fruit instead of wanting rubbish

This is just what works for us and all families are different

My DD is extremely fussy at times, and often if I withhold any kind of food she just wouldn't eat anything and would go hungry. I'm not okay with that, I will offer and alternative food, then some fruit or a yoghurt, if none of that works she may have a slice of chocolate spread on toast. However I am coming at this from the perspective of a child who is potentially asd, so I'm not sure if I'd feel differently if she was neurotypical.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

A lot of rubbish gets written about French children and eating. Coming from a half-French family, I can confirm that - sadly - it's a myth that every French toddler eats everything on their plate while being immaculately behaved at the table. But....

....the one massive factor where France and the UK differ on kids eating is enjoyment. For French parents, the main reason you try to get your child to eat a range of foods is because they are nice. 10 pages into this thread, I haven't seen a single mention of enjoyment. Food for kids in the UK is weirdly punitive. No wonder the poor fuckers don't want to eat it, if they're stuck at the table, forcing down something they hate, and if the best reason parents can come up with is "It's good for you", What kind of incentive is that?

If I gave you all two foods you'd never eaten and said that Food A has to be eaten first because it's good for you and that you can only have Food B as a treat, if you eat A, what would you conclude about Foods A and B?

Excellent post.

I really recommend the insta account kids.eat.in.colour for advice on how to deal with fussy eaters and how to navigate puddings etc.

Problem is, either way you are rewarding them. Either they are rewarded for eating something they don't want, or rewarded for being fussy and refusing vegetables. I don't make a big deal about food and certainly don't ask for a clean plate. On the other hand, trying vegetables and new foods is the only way kids start to like them, so saying "OK no need to ever try them, here's ice cream instead" isn't the solution either.

Oh and for everyone saying their kids won't have food issues due to their amazing parenting, don't be too smug. My parents did everything "right", I was bf until 3, never had a drop of formula, we always had healthy home cooked home meals, ate together, they were relaxed but encouraged us to try new foods, unhealthy treats were only rarely served but not banned. And yep, I overeat now and I'm overweight. You just can't win.

@FlyNow

Problem is, either way you are rewarding them. Either they are rewarded for eating something they don't want, or rewarded for being fussy and refusing vegetables. I don't make a big deal about food and certainly don't ask for a clean plate. On the other hand, trying vegetables and new foods is the only way kids start to like them, so saying "OK no need to ever try them, here's ice cream instead" isn't the solution either.

But I think part of the problem is the this fixation with talking about and valorising ‘vegetables’ as some special entity: extolling their virtues, using them as the basis for rewards; talking about them incessantly; fostering the assumption that they’re never delicious but always something to be dutifully eaten (and you can tell from this thread that a lot of posters feel that way about veggies).

Then there’s the way they’re often served, on the side, boiled, bland and uninspiring, sticking out like a sore thumb.

We have pudding every day. Half the time it's a piece of fruit and the other half something like baked apple and custard or a piece of cake.

So far I'm lucky that DD enjoys all her food. I love cooking/food and I hope my enthusiasm is catching. I reprogrammed myself in my twenties to realise that actually I can see lots of savoury foods a treat - steak, bacon sandwich, a really nice tomato salad, sprout tops (a treat because they're difficult to get hold of and very tasty). I'm trying to pass this onto DD so that she doesn't hold puddings on the same pedestal that I did as a child.

If she says she's hungry after having pudding (angling for a second helping!) she is offered back her main course plate if she didn't finish it (which is rare) or a stick of celery/cucumber/lettuce.

I've had to be careful not to overfeed DD as she was tiny and slow to gain weight as a newborn and it's left me a bit traumatised! It would be easy to celebrate her good appetite and give her too much.

@Peanutbutterblood

I'd rather not have pudding through the week but my husband has pudding every night as thats he grew up with

My dds dont get pudding if they dont eat almost all of their dinner. Dd1(5) is quite a fussy eater and would much rather fill up on pudding so we do need to encourage her to eat her meal. Dd2(2) will eat all of her meal no problem but often doesn't want pudding

Can't your husband give that up in order to set a better example for his children?

@Porcupineinwaiting

Absolutely Lemon The main cause of obesity in the UK is not eating enough pudding.

Oversized portions is the problem, as I said. Pudding is not the problem.

I personally think that forcing a child to eat more than they want to (obviously within reason) is extremely unhealthy. Forcing a child to eat more - because you want them to - and then rewarding that with a dessert implements no boundaries and also teaches the child that sweet stuff is more desirable than normal food therefore, in my opinion, they want it all the time because they see it as a “treat” or reward. Why do we teach sweet things are treats?

But I think part of the problem is the this fixation with talking about and valorising ‘vegetables’ as some special entity: extolling their virtues, using them as the basis for rewards; talking about them incessantly; fostering the assumption that they’re never delicious but always something to be dutifully eaten (and you can tell from this thread that a lot of posters feel that way about veggies)

Well it's just realistic isn't it? Vegetables are healthy and do have to be eaten in order to remain healthy. And I like veggies and eat them, but no they don't taste as good as chocolate. Especially to kids who are more sensitive to bitter tastes.

I can't believe the majority of this thread is focussed on pudding/no puddingthis is a serious eating disorder in the making

@FlyNow

Oh and for everyone saying their kids won't have food issues due to their amazing parenting, don't be too smug. My parents did everything "right", I was bf until 3, never had a drop of formula, we always had healthy home cooked home meals, ate together, they were relaxed but encouraged us to try new foods, unhealthy treats were only rarely served but not banned. And yep, I overeat now and I'm overweight. You just can't win.

Exactly the same here

I genuinely do think vegetables can be delicious.

I grew up thinking I didn't like a whole host of vegetables which is because they were generally overcooked, mushy, slimy and not flavoursome.

I've learned how to cook vegetables nicely. Even for the sweetest toothed among us, there are veg that should be appealing like roasted squash, carrots, peppers, tomatoes, which if cooked in a certain way taste very naturally sweet.

@Porcupineinwaiting

Absolutely Lemon The main cause of obesity in the UK is not eating enough pudding.

😂😂😂