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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:21

Maybe girl children are creeped out by men disguising themselves as women instinctively.

Maybe that is the case for some yes, which is why I was asking as thought it might be but wasn't sure.
Just shows how we're all different as I never got that vibe (that doesn't mean I'm not believing those who did)
I just saw them as funny characters in the pantomime like everyone else.
The Wicked Witch on the other hand who came on and off in a puff of smoke and cackling at everyone and cursing the audience on the other hand, to me was scary lol

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:23

We tell children if they're lost, find a policeman or a lady to help you

I've always said to mine a police officer or to go into a shop and find a member of staff there.
Not sure why a lady would be an automatic safe space?
Also just thinking aloud

Campervan69 · 13/12/2020 22:26

I'm just thinking out loud here too 😊 men frightened me as a little girl, women never did. Even the wicked witch didn't for some reason, but a scary male villain did. Men in the 70s though were pretty brash, sexist and opinionated and didn't often moderate their behaviour to cater to the sensibilities of little girls. They were often leery as well. I had bad vibes from a couple of over touchy friends dads, one of whom was later imprisoned for child sex abuse.

MsTSwift · 13/12/2020 22:27

Statistically a woman is a better bet. We used to say go to a member of staff failing that a lady with a buggy

Campervan69 · 13/12/2020 22:27

And when 98% of sexual offences are carried out by men, I think women are statistically the safer option.

Janegrey333 · 13/12/2020 22:28

They are creepy.

formerbabe · 13/12/2020 22:28

Not sure why a lady would be an automatic safe space?

Because women are statistically far less likely to commit violent/sexual crimes. That's a fact.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:29

I had bad vibes from a couple of over touchy friends dads, one of whom was later imprisoned for child sex abuse

That's maybe where we differ then and why we don't feel the same due to different life experiences

OverTheRubicon · 13/12/2020 22:31

Actually, I'd always seen a lot of drag as a tribute to femininity - in the same way that the women who were often referenced (Dolly Parton, Diana Ross, Cher) were strong and fabulous, as were characters like Dame Edna, in many ways.

Personally I quite like things that blur the distinction between sex and gender. I'd rather my DC's grow up seeing drag acts and understanding the performative aspects of gender rather than assuming that no boy is allowed to love pink and sequins, or that if they do, then deep down they must be a girl.

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 22:40

@OverTheRubicon

Actually, I'd always seen a lot of drag as a tribute to femininity - in the same way that the women who were often referenced (Dolly Parton, Diana Ross, Cher) were strong and fabulous, as were characters like Dame Edna, in many ways.

How is it a tribute to for men to put on an offensive act about the female biology and their idea of our behaviour? How is men taking the piss out of women with stereotypes a 'tribute'? Again, I ask if they had an act about a race rather than the female sex, would it still be a tribute or would it be seen as racist? Why is obvious misogyny so easily excused?

Personally I quite like things that blur the distinction between sex and gender.

You like stereotypes about women bluring the line with sex? Why?

I'd rather my DC's grow up seeing drag acts and understanding the performative aspects of gender rather than assuming that no boy is allowed to love pink and sequins, or that if they do, then deep down they must be a girl.

Thats precisely what gender is, the idea that we have 'pink' and 'blue' brains. There's no such thing as 'performing a gender', there's only acting out stereotypes of what you think gender is.

Doublebubblebubble · 13/12/2020 22:44

My uncle is a comedy queen and I know many drag queens. I love drag queens.

They arent trying to BE real women. (for the most part)

Theyre being their own version of a woman, man or being.

Like, Trixie Mattel. She wears dresses, sure but she also doesnt necessarily wear make up in the same way that a cis woman would. Its all exaggerated.

If youve ever watched RPDR (which I LOVE) there are all different types of queens; comedy (bianca del rio - lily savage - dame edna) pageant (Bebe Benet, Ru) arty (Yvie Oddly, Sasha Velour). And they all express themselves differently but are all queens.

It's an art form. A way to express themselves. Not everyone likes every type of art, but you can try to respect and be respectful the artist.

At the end of the day - its just fun.

Doublebubblebubble · 13/12/2020 22:45

^some do end up start transitioning - more power to them

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:46

the female version of the male character was far nicer, gentler and more sensitive than a man would generally play the role

In what way?

And no, I always found women safe and reassuring as a child no matter how they dressed

Maybe this has something to do with it?

formerbabe · 13/12/2020 22:46

At the end of the day - its just fun

Adding the phrase 'at the end of the day' doesn't make a statement any more valid or true.

goose1964 · 13/12/2020 22:48

Have you ever watched drag race? They do some behind the scenes interviews and the vast majority have had horrible childhoods either because they were effeminate or effeminate and gay. Their personas are often a way to let that out and becomes something to hide behind.

Doublebubblebubble · 13/12/2020 22:49

@formerbabe and??

Some people find jimmy carr funny and some people dont.

If you dont like it - it isnt your place to tell people to stop. It is just fun.

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 22:49

At the end of the day - its just fun.

Only if you think stereotyping is 'fun' and never causes harm. Which would be pretty stupid, but everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Theyre being their own version of a woman, man or being

Pray tell, how do you be a version of a woman? Do you also get to be a version of a different race, or sexuality? It's interesting to know you can just choose to be a version of these things without it being offensive anymore, how eye-opening.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:50

You like stereotypes about women bluring the line with sex? Why?

You ask why but the poster literally expanded their comment to explain why they thought that Confused *
Even though they said sex and gender* , not women blurring the line with sex, but anyways....

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 22:51

If you dont like it - it isnt your place to tell people to stop

You're absolutely right, @Doublebubblebubble! Women cannot tell men to stop being misogynistic, much like anyone who isn't white shouldnt tell white people to stop being racist! We should just ignore these things if we don't like them, right? Problems in society have been solved! Just look away!

GlummyMcGlummerson · 13/12/2020 22:55

How come we ("we" being people how recognises prejudices in the world) all agree that oppressed classes should be listened to...POC, LGBT people, disabled people - the narrative is always (and rightly) "Listen to them, listen to how your actions affect them as a class, and adapt"...until the oppressed class is women. Women are the only oppressed class who are not only told to STFU, but that they are discriminating against their oppressors. Open your eyes people!

formerbabe · 13/12/2020 22:55

[quote Doublebubblebubble]@formerbabe and??

Some people find jimmy carr funny and some people dont.

If you dont like it - it isnt your place to tell people to stop. It is just fun.[/quote]
You can keep saying 'its fun' but clearly large numbers of people don't think it is.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:56

Pray tell, how do you be a version of a woman? Do you also get to be a version of a different race, or sexuality?

You are either are black, Asian, Jew, etc etc, you either are or you aren't.
Same with your sexuality - you're either straight, lesbian, bi, pan, whatever.
There's clearly no one way to be a woman though, however people would like it to be!
I know it pains some people but we are all free thinking individuals lol

Doublebubblebubble · 13/12/2020 22:57

@BrumBoo

At the end of the day - its just fun.

Only if you think stereotyping is 'fun' and never causes harm. Which would be pretty stupid, but everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Theyre being their own version of a woman, man or being

Pray tell, how do you be a version of a woman? Do you also get to be a version of a different race, or sexuality? It's interesting to know you can just choose to be a version of these things without it being offensive anymore, how eye-opening.

Honestly why does this matter? - can people not just be whoever they want to be anymore? I know these people and a lot of you are making assumptions about a person I love. It doesnt make sense to me.

If my uncle didnt get to to do drag they wouldnt be who they are. And that would be sad.

Its not fair to assume that drag is making fun of women. At all.

Can I ask all of you who are so against drag queens -

If your son came out as gay - would you accept him?

If your son wanted to do drag - would you also accept him?

It's 2020.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 13/12/2020 22:57

Theyre being their own version of a woman, man or being.

Like, Trixie Mattel. She wears dresses, sure but she also doesnt necessarily wear make up in the same way that a cis woman would. Its all exaggerated

That's the exact problem - it's a parody of women, a caricature. Men as a class oppress women. We know this. So why is it acceptable to parody them?

Minstrels were considered an art form, FYI. Now have a think about why we figured out why minstrels are not acceptable

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 22:58

You can keep saying 'its fun' but clearly large numbers of people don't think it is

You can keep saying clearly large numbers of people don't think it is fun but it's clear that a lot of people out there do think it is.
Doesn't make them wrong.