to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

But I am being forced to live in the UK because I have very elderly relatives I can't abandon and sadly very little talent for languages.

So yes, I am forced to live in this sad little dot in the North Sea.

To be fair nobody who isn't in power, has any power over what happens next. We live in a democracy of sorts where people vote for the person they believe will best represent their interests, we currently have this Government voted for by some of electorate. The Government is totally responsible for what happens, yes they were given that power by some of the electorate, but really what happens next is entirely the Governments responsibility.

@TheKeatingFive

Over 150 to choose from, noone is forcing you to live in the UK.

Erm, you can’t just up sticks, there are visas and things. Which leaving the EU has made much more difficult to obtain. So plenty of people are ‘forced’ to live in the UK, because they don’t have other options

Exactly, apart from the fact that I am British and also European, I don't need to leave my own country to disagree with the decisions it makes. Especially ironic when those decisions actually make it very hard to leave my own country anyway. And yes, people saying Remainers should leave and live somewhere else are as bad as racists in the 70s and 80s saying immigrants who complain should go back where they come from. That is how people see you when you say things like that - is that who you want to be. Stop saying ignorant things.

Nobody knows if Brexit will be a success or a failure.
Nobody knows if it might have been more successful if Leavers had accepted the democratic vote and worked for the good of the country instead of spending years trying to undermine it.
Nobody knows how the EU will cope financially in the post-Covid era and whether, as a major contributor, Britain may have dodged a bullet by coming out now.
There's a lot of things nobody knows, we are all just guessing at the moment, but to wish ill on others for disagreeing with you is shameful. Is that the nice, tolerant face of left wing politics?

sad little dot in the North Sea Yep - only 30 miles from the rest of its geographical continent, but forced to go begging to countries on the other side of the world for food.

@QueenOfTheDoubleWide beautifully said

I think you'll find that NATO predates the ECSC, and it has been NATO that has kept the peace in Europe. Many NATO nations go on to become EU member states

You don't know that, the fact is Germany and France set up ECSC "to make war unthinkable and materially impossible"

Either way, the UK is attempting to undermine one of the pillars of the post war consensus that has kept the peace in Europe.
NATO was primarily set up in order to counter the threat from the Soviet Union.

Is that the nice, tolerant face of left wing politics Not all whose European citizenship is being taken away from them are left wing? Everyone's is.
I am not that left wing. I would say central.
That probably looks left wing to Farage and Trump though and those who listen to them.

Is that the nice, tolerant face of left wing politics?

No, it's the pissed off face of people who think Brexit is a very, very bad idea and valued their identity as Europeans.

And I know several lifelong Tories who voted to Remain.

I honestly think that people carrying such massive negativity and hatred will ruin their own lives and it's got nothing to do with Brexit at all.

I have decided to give in and embrace ignorance, bigotry and arrogance. Here goes.

I'm alright Jack, fuck the leave voters, let the fuckers eat cake.

Ah that felt better.

What's the point of liberalism and hope for a better future when the English are determined to trash their country.

I used to try and tolerate leave voters cos democracy, but no longer. Sod them.

@thegcatsmother

Can anyone tell me how staying in would have worked out, given the changes coming in in inheritance rules, taxation and pensions for example? I note that TEU and TFEU have superseded Lisbon, but without any votes being taken on this by the EU populace.

Well it wouldn’t the TEU and TFEU make it clear that the future of the EU was towards complete intergration. We had opted out of a few of the articles eg justice, but it was becoming increasingly clear that the club was moving in a direction we were increasingly not part of.

One of the main issues I have always maintained is the civil law majority v the common law v small minority (basically us and Cyprus). Inquisitorial v adversorial justice systems, civil history v military history of policing systems. Anyone who has ever tried speaking to someone from the EU about trusts (which form an integral part of our financial structure) will immediately recognise the issue.

[Delusionary] but I think the EU is not as good as it should have been. It has become a cosy club in which most members think of it as protectively securing the status quo. The real world moves on in leaps and bounds via technology. The EU wants to preserve its privilege and that can only be achieved by being better at what matters to the majority of consumers, which is delivery... quick.

Amazon works because it gives you what you want, and will deliver it tomorrow. But there isn't a magic Amazon button that delivers an efficient supply chain in the specialist pipes and tubes we buy for our business. there are offers all the time, online that promise the world, but frankly we've tried some and all were rubbish. So we shall go back to our German and Dutch suppliers (who are great) and we'll pass on any extra costs. And, after the customer has bought crap once, and had to pay for the job twice (because skilled labour has to be paid) the world will begin to understand (again) that you get what you are paying for.

I honestly think that people carrying such massive negativity and hatred will ruin their own lives and it's got nothing to do with Brexit at all

What utter twaddle. And It's got EVERYTHING to do Brexit.

And I know several lifelong Tories who voted to Remain
Yes, many many.
It is not that long ago that the Tory part started a referendum for Brexit but had a policy of Remaining in Europe! Obviously they lost, but Remaining was a Tory policy not that long ago.
It certainly is not a left wing trait to be a Remainer.

Apart from Rees-Mogg and the Ultras, obviously, who will shortly shred workers' rights, environmental protections, food standards and Christ knows what else.
This is such bollocks, but if you want to make yourself miserable and whip everyone around you into a frenzy, be my guest. Irresponsible and stupid, but I respect your freedom to do it.

Those of you saying "nobody knows what's going to happen", or saying that leaving might actually work out well for us; where are you getting your information? I would be so happy if there was anything out there, based on actual reality, that shows that we will be, or at least might be, better off after Brexit. That there won't be food shortages or price hikes. That we will still be able to go on holiday or work in other European countries without extra cash, red tape etc. That major companies won't look to leave the UK (my DH has been made redundant from one that is in the process of leaving, because of Brexit)

Please, show me the research, the reports, the evidence.

And competence, which should be a given.

I don’t the “no one can know how Brexit will turn out” posts. Why not look at the UK government’s projections?

I agree, I don’t understand how people didn’t realise this was a possibility, i am angry and nervous and I sincerely hope I am wrong about my brexit fears.

@Applesonthelawn

Apart from Rees-Mogg and the Ultras, obviously, who will shortly shred workers' rights, environmental protections, food standards and Christ knows what else. This is such bollocks, but if you want to make yourself miserable and whip everyone around you into a frenzy, be my guest. Irresponsible and stupid, but I respect your freedom to do it.

In what way is it bollocks?

Rewatch the interview Johnson gave 4 years ago after “winning” the vote. The face on him! The prick didn’t want to leave any more than most of us. He spent 2015-16 shitting lies about the EU as a way to angle himself into the spotlight and the job of PM. Mission accomplished - but unfortunately plenty of dimwits believed in his crap even if he didn’t and so Out we went. Despite knowing he’d screwed the country, it still didn’t stop him gunning for Theresa May, the one remaining obstacle in his path (who actually was actually on course to salvage something, albeit something much worse than we already had). “Australia” deal my fucking arse.

Al Johnson is the biggest fraud and traitor in British political history.

We led the way on workers' rights, our environmental protections are higher than EU's. Utter scaremongering shite.

Nobody knows if Brexit will be a success or a failure.

We are back to timescales again, how long after the 1st of January can you confidently describe Brexit as either a success or failure ?

The nobody knows bit makes me chuckle though, Chief Brexit Cheerleader Boris, promised during the referendum campaign that it would be a massive, unmitigated success. Even now he is saying we will thrive. So the Government believes the vast majority of the UK population will not be negatively impacted in any way by Brexit, which will be fabulous if true

This is such bollocks, but if you want to make yourself miserable and whip everyone around you into a frenzy, be my guest. Irresponsible and stupid, but I respect your freedom to do it

Ha. You trust Rees-Mogg and the rest of the Ultras with your family's health, safety and welfare? Good luck with that. They've been salivating over a deregulated society for years, and they ushered it in by selling racism and bigotry to the masses.

And you need to be able to recognise anger from misery. I'm furious with Brexit - but never, ever miserable.

Irresponsible and stupid? Brexiteers have cornered the market on that one, I'm afraid.