to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

The anti-eu pro-democracy argument is not a great one. How much influence do people think individual citizens will have over a trade deal with the US and how that pans out? Leaving aside the point that we did actually have elected representatives in Brussels, the in or out decision should have been considered as a question about which gives Britain more influence in a complex, interdependent world. And I'm afraid there is no real debate about that.

As for the related United States of Europe argument, it always seemed to me that this only backed the In position. Firstly, we would have had a say on the direction from within - I find it unlikely we would have been the only country concerned at the EU taking a turn for the despotic and we'd have been able to work with allies inside the bloc. Secondly, if it was clear the EU was really going in a direction at odds with the values of this country, many of us remainers would have voted Leave. There would have been a clear mandate and the country would not be split in two.

Finally, I just look at what the EU is and I just don't see the tyranny. It leads the world in laws that protect its citizens, such as competition and data privacy. It's losing the membership (and, yes, citizenship) of such a body that causes many of us such concern. Because I don't see the UK governments of the recent past at least prioritising areas like these.

No, there were plenty of comfortably off voters in the South of England
I agree. The village where my parents live is full of Leave voters - and it's the richer ones who were most likely to vote Leave.

@TheRubyRedshoes

I just think it's best to try and be positive in these situations, what can we do to help?. Buy British? Buy British lamb, meat..

It will help with air miles etc too, just like people are saying, support the independents due to covid... Support the independent and make efforts to check where your produce is from..

Positivity is bullshit. You can't buy British tomatoes, half baked bread, and millions of other food products. You can't buy British lithium. You can't buy british minerals if there aren't any inherently in this country.

What you will have is shitloads of potatoes and root veggies. Yay!
I'd be really interested to know if UK produces as much meat as it's ppl consume. Never looked at that.
And I hate fish and lamb, so if there aren't enough british chicken on the market I should just cut protein because many didn't understand basic things? And you think it's fair?
Having to cut certain foods because... let's say their's a famine or a war is totally different than this self inflicted stupidity.
And staying positive won't make any difference.

@JingleCatJingle, the special status granted to NI does bring the potential for more jobs here. However it will also make NI one of the busiest smuggling corridors in Europe. This strengthens our paramilitary organisations. On top of that, the PUL community is up in arms about the border in the Irish Sea. There is a lot of anger in protestant working class communities.

Brexit was always going to be detrimental to peace in NI.

@ItWasTheBestOfTimes I have never said I want a no deal, please show me where I have said, I never even posted what way I voted.

I just don’t wish ill on people for having a different opinion to me and because they have made bad decisions.

FOM is not about holidays.
It's about

• the right to live and work in another EU country
• the right to study in another EU country.

Taking it away, or dismissing it because you personally could never use it doesn't mean it's stupid or invaluable.

I hate artichokes so all artichoke farmers should go out of business and all who love them should just suck it up and be positive. It'll turn out fine.

@DioneTheDiabolist but! We are not going to starve or have a hard border.
That is something.
Brexit is shit. Anyone who says differently is deluded or has a hedge fund.

[quote Footywidow]@ItWasTheBestOfTimes I have never said I want a no deal, please show me where I have said, I never even posted what way I voted.

I just don’t wish ill on people for having a different opinion to me and because they have made bad decisions.[/quote]
Again - it's not about wishing ill on people.

It's having zero sympathy for people who voted for it and then end up suffering if the thing they voted for causes them hardship.

There is a difference.

I just think it's best to try and be positive in these situations, what can we do to help?. Buy British? Buy British lamb, meat

This only gets you so far. The UK imports about half of all food, much of it from, or via, the EU. It is almost 200 years since the UK was self-sufficient in food.

British animals eat imported feed, are treated with imported veterinary medicines, are slaughtered in factories largely staffed by EU workers, overseen by EU vets (90% of vets in UK food processing plants are from the EU).

'British' food is made from ingredients from all over the world, but largely from the EU. A supermarket pizza has cheese from Ireland, tomato paste from Italy, peppers, mushrooms and onions from the Netherlands, olives from Greece, ham and meat from Denmark - and is packed in a box from Sweden. If any one of these items is delayed or missing, the production line stops and the pizzas don't reach the shops.

Brexit is shit. Anyone who says differently is deluded or has a hedge fund

^this

Do the people on here who voted remain and now sneer down their middle class noses at all the " thickos, racist imbeciles" that dared to go against their wishes not realise that they are actually part of the cause of this? What started with Tony Blair et al, in suppressing people's legitimate issues with screams of racism and accusations has not got to a point where those people are now fighting back and Brexit is one of the consequences of this!

*now

What legitimate issues @wewillmeetagain ?

But MN posters on this thread want to remove voting rights, so they always get their own way
Don't think this will be the last time we defy them...

Issues such uncontrolled immigration! People have seen the services they use become harder and harder to access properly because certain areas have been impacted by this significantly more than others! If people dare to say that this is an issue then they are shouted down with accusations of xenophobia and racism!

Do the people on here who voted remain and now sneer down their middle class noses
There is something very unpleasant about the posters who seem to think if you voted remain you have no idea what real life is and you live in a bubble of gap years and ski weeks. As if those who voted Leave are the salt of the earth, hard workers here. That's just not true so why be so divisive?

Because MN Rejoiners are living in the past.
Leaving is happening now..

The sneering of remainers that people are stupid, uneducated and don't know what they want or what is best for them is another example! If you want to have a valid discussion with people then calling them names and outright dismissing their issues is not the way to make them listen!

Issues such uncontrolled immigration!
Lack of services has more to do with mismanagement than anything else - and in the NHS that has got considerably worse as the NHS relies so heavily on EU nurses and doctors. As for immigration being uncontrolled - that is not part and parcel of being in the EU. The government always had the right to restrict immigration but it chose not to. Of course, now if we make trade deals with other countries such as India we can expect much more immigration so not sure what your point was?

Do the people on here who voted remain and now sneer down their middle class noses at all the " thickos, racist imbeciles" that dared to go against their wishes not realise that they are actually part of the cause of this

There are lots of causes of Brexit - and there are lots of causes of this No Deal that we are going to get.

And people are going to get what they wanted. A hard Brexit with all the barriers to trade, friction, tariffs and bureaucracy, and all the extra costs associated with that.

With our nearest trading partner who supplies us with much of our essential supplies.

In the middle of a pandemic that has cost many people their jobs.

It does feel like we are on a runaway train, and no one is saying 'But are you sure this is what you want"

If you want to have a valid discussion with people then calling them names and outright dismissing their issues is not the way to make them listen!
Agreed. So maybe don't do it then?

@Europilgrim let's be honest here the vast majority of those who voted remain do not come from the areas hardest impacted by the issues!

You sound nice.

@wewillmeetagain - and plenty of Leavers are very well-off indeed. Probably best not to sneer at anyone.

I have had discussions with some leavers who want to turn off when it gets to discussions on borders, tariffs, customs union, common standards etc as it's too boring.

Well, they are about to find out what those things mean now.