to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

However, I would like to don my hard hat just this once and ask why it is so difficult for some remain voters to understand that some British people were genuinely worried about the increasing lack of democracy and say over our lives whilst more and more power was devolved to a faceless European Parliament. @Lostinacloud

Actually this is interesting, at least to me. I come from the lowest echelons of British society, and it is a fact that the poorest in Britain are severely disenfranchised. Our poorest are amongst the poorest in the EU, in a society that is one of the most unequal in the EU, that nevertheless can call itself one of the richest in the world due to the immense wealth that the richest hold here. It is hard to explain to all groups, both the poorer and the richer, just how extensive and large the British social ladder is, the scale and size of the hierarchy. Regional inequality is in play too: there is a greater chance of climbing the hierarchy if you are born in London than if you come from a small town in the far north east and a 20 mile trip into Durham, say (entirely at random), is a rare treat. All you know when you are looking up from the bottom is that there is a lot of people above you. You do not see the many rungs that there are to climb.

It might help to explain why British people were so vulnerable to being abused by their own elites in this matter. Europe really does not have such vast social hierarchies and democracy is a serious proposition there, on the whole (not too sure about France). Local democracy functions and local government is strong. It really isn't in Britain. This is the roots of the conflict imo between British and European culture. So you get these people talking about faceless bureaucrats and thinking that they really have a chance at being represented if they can only remove what they are told is a topmost and remote layer, compared to their 'local' representatives.

No doubt I am now being patronising and insulting to working class culture, but as I said that is where I come from.

@MrsMiaWallis

Just don't come complaining when your factory shuts down and relocates to the EU because there are less barriers to production and market there

I don't think many factories will relocate to the EU!

What on earth would make you say that? It's already happening and the business owners doing it are the ones who supported Brexit

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/brexiteer-billionaire-moves-grenadier-production-to-eu/09/12/

@Footywidow

The views on here about wishing people ill are so disgusting. I hope that none of you work in the emergency services, would you for instance not help somebody who has overdosed because drugs will kill you and it would only go one way so you got what was coming. Just absolutely appalling views, I think if the EU was reading this thread they would be pleased to be getting rid of us.

If someone voted for ambulance cuts and then they complain when the ambulance didn't turn up, then I would have fuck all sympathy for them.

The grenadier guy is absolutely not representative of most factories in the UK!

Dyson?

And I do have very little sympathy for people who vote for a Government that will shaft them - and then complain that the Government is shafting them.

Dyson moved production to Singapore years ago.

How many do you need? It's OK as long as it's the not the one in your town, or does that only matter if you work there?

[ £350m to the NHS ] It was an example not a spending plan

Stop re-writing history. It was carefully choreographed to get the emotional message across and imply that the money would be spent on the NHS. There were no busses proclaiming 'Spend £350m on Mental Health' or 'Invest £350m in Education' or on anything else.

In the same way, Johnson is now trying to claim that his 'Oven-Ready Deal' that he fought the GE on actually referred to the Withdrawal Agreement, and not the final Deal. Either this is bullshit or he was deliberately misleading the public - it only took him a couple of weeks after signing the WA to declare that it actually would not apply, and then he subsequently tabled a Bill that would explicitly break the WA and in doing so break international law.

@chomalungma

And I do have very little sympathy for people who vote for a Government that will shaft them - and then complain that the Government is shafting them.

It must be lovely to vote for parties that have no hope of getting into power then just sit and constantly judge everyone else.

You know the fable of the scorpion and the frog.

The scorpion did a very good job of convincing the frog to help him cross the river.

I have little sympathy for the frog as well.

Agreed.

I am a remainer and at that stage I just think 'we deserve everything we get'.

Bring on a no deal Brexit and the disaster that will follow.

Maybe only then will people realise the madness of voting for the type of government that feeds them lies while lining their own pocket.

The EU has been more than patient, the UK needs to learn its lesson...

Brexit is bad enough but to leave with no deal is simply a catastrophe.

Footywidow and yet you don’t care that we’ve known for a while now that Brexit will negatively impact the poorest and most vulnerable among us, which is ok as long as we get the no deal you want. That is an equally vile view. I don’t wish ill on anyone, except perhaps the people who misled the public into voting for this on the promise it will improve their lives when they knew that it would actually make their lives harder.

@MrsMiaWallis

Dyson moved production to Singapore years ago.

Not quite true. Some manufacturing moved years ago, yes, but there was still plenty in the U.K. Last year he decided to move the headquarters to Singapore, although he maintains it’s not to do with Brexit. Odd timing though, wouldn’t you say?

It must be lovely to vote for parties that have no hope of getting into power then just sit and constantly judge everyone else.
@MrsMiaWallis you get that if people stopped voting for the Tories and voted for another party, that party might get elected? If you know a party Will shaft you, vote for someone else, don’t just say ‘oh, that lovely party would make my life better, but I don’t think they’ll win, so I’ll vote for this horrible one which will definitely make my life worse’. That’s bonkers reasoning.

@MrsMiaWallis

Just don't come complaining when your factory shuts down and relocates to the EU because there are less barriers to production and market there

I don't think many factories will relocate to the EU!

Nissan for starters... Carlsberg has plans

[quote wewillmeetagain]@HallFloor I completely agree with your first paragraph, however I don't agree that all leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. [/quote]
Leave was never defined, though, so by default they were voting for an unknown outcome- people we were throwing around "Norway model" and other ideas, but nobody officially came out and said what the future relationship would be- because nobody knew.

Leave voters are generally those who have been thoroughly disadvantaged through low quality education etc etc.

This is can understand BUT it is only partly true.

My wealthy relatives (in their early 70s) who have fat final salary pensions, a second home in France and have benefited hugely from a life lived in Britain in the EU voted to leave.
I literally cannot fathom why they thought suddenly they and their families would be better off out. That the Britain they grew up in, the Britain in the longest period of peace for centuries, that has enabled them to become relatively wealthy and comfortable would serve them better out, I’ll never know.
And many other of my relatives and parents’ peers (late 60s/early 70s) also with very very comfortable baby boomer lives, voted leave.
I don’t get it

Well, if as some posters seem to think, manufacturers in this country will jump at the chance to lower wages and worker's rights, then we'll become a far more profitable place to make things. Make your mind up.

I just think it's best to try and be positive in these situations, what can we do to help?. Buy British? Buy British lamb, meat..

It will help with air miles etc too, just like people are saying, support the independents due to covid... Support the independent and make efforts to check where your produce is from..

@MrsMiaWallis so workers should accept lower wages and standards?
You recognise that there will be a gap between getting things through Parliament and new jobs.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/can-you-name-one-company-that-has-moved-to-the-uk-because-of-brexit/14/09/

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The EU are now playing hardball making an example of us because they want to scare other countries within the EU about what will happen if they try and leave! '

Oh @wewillmeetagain such sense in a cesspit of outrage.

The way the EU are refusing to act in everyone's best interests proves we are better out. Sad but true.

I don't understand the logic. Why would the EU do that?

This is a bloody vile thread. I voted Remain, I think leaving the EU is stupid and I will argue that with any Brexiteer who wants to but JFC I would be embarrassed to be linked with some of the people on here. Restricting votes to people who might disagree with you! Disenfranchising people who have already been punished by a shit education, from the hotbed of overtutored middle-class kids who have private tutors because they're still not clever enough even with all the advantages they have, never mind on a level playing field with normal kids. And then all the whining about those lovely gap years and FOM as though people like me who could never afford anything like that are supposed to have sympathy! Oh but I'm probably just there to be patronised because us thick poor efforts don't understand how we'll lose out even though leaving the EU really won't make any difference to us. It really is sickening how nasty and spiteful people are.

And then all the whining about those lovely gap years and FOM as though people like me who could never afford anything like that are supposed to have sympathy!
I think your prejudices are showing! FOM was my lifeline. I couldn't afford to live in the village I grew up in and I couldn't find work there anyway so I used FOM to move abroad where I did find work and the cost of living was much lower - why do you think FOM is for the rich? If you are well-off the loss of it won't affect you that much anyway as you can still go on holiday. For a lot of people FOM was a passport to being able to experience life abroad (through working) that they would never have been able to afford otherwise. And yes, I did have a gap year but I spent all of it working so that I would have enough to go to university - first in my family to do so and I needed to save up for it.

the Leave voters are generally those who have been thoroughly disadvantaged through low quality education etc etc.

No, there were plenty of comfortably off voters in the South of England who voted Leave. I believe that the Witney constituency, Cameron's old one, was the only rural constituency in England to vote Remain.

And Gove, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage badly disadvantaged through poor education? Don't make me laugh.