to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

Direct your bedwetting fury at them

Yes, cos this isn’t negative at all 😀

@Lostinacloud

I know it’s utterly futile to attempt to present any kind of leave argument on Mumsnet without getting told you’re stupid, selfish, ignorant, racist etc or in fact that you are heading for a shit life and deserve it However, I would like to don my hard hat just this once and ask why it is so difficult for some remain voters to understand that some British people were genuinely worried about the increasing lack of democracy and say over our lives whilst more and more power was devolved to a faceless European Parliament. Yes we could vote for a random few Euro MP’s every so often but most of Brussels is run by unelected bureaucrats and even the European Parliament President who signs off all laws and represents the body of Europe to other nations is not elected by the citizens of Europe.

The reason I find it particularly difficult to understand why remain voters can’t appreciate this particular worry is because similar worries and frustrations are present in our own country! For example, there is still prevalent pressure from Scotland to become independent because they are unhappy at being ruled from Westminster; a place that they perceive to be geographically far away and ignorant to many of their local issues. Well how is a Brussels government, where there are nowhere near as many Scottish MP’s as there are in Westminster, located even further away and with even less understanding of local Scottish issues better than at least an independent uk?
Now, I’m not saying that the UK government have handled Brexit in any kind of admirable way and I am in agreement with most of the country that they appear to be creating an absolute disaster of the situation. But that is not a leave voters fault and just like the covid arguments between rigid rule followers and posters who attempt to question the restrictions, people need to direct their anger and action at the government and not at each other. A non-united population is a weak population, easily controlled and manipulated - et voilà - the government continue to be held unaccountable while we’re all too busy squabbling amongst ourselves.

What is your stance on possible moves for Scottish and Irish independence?

honestly think that people carrying such massive negativity and hatred will ruin their own lives and it's got nothing to do with Brexit at all

Came here to post this but it's already been said.

I don't understand how a comment suggesting the over 65s should be disenfranchised hasnt been deleted. Despicable.

Yes, and once the penny drops it will lead possibly to a very hard left government. Surely the Tories must know that- but by then they and their cronies will have made their quick bucks (another reason to go no deal now, this is ONLY about short term profit). I also think Corbyn and his ilk have been banking on that.
So moderates left and right leaning have been shafted by both sides and the only casualty as ever is the population at large.

Leavers didn't vote for a no deal situation, I think it was assumed that years of negotiations would result in a workable solution, such as many other countries have, and manage successfully.

@Northernshepherd

I don't understand how a comment suggesting the over 65s should be disenfranchised hasnt been deleted. Despicable.

I agree. Some of the posters on here have totally lost their marbles.

@Saoirse7

My personal stance is that is would be quite sad to see the breakup of the United Kingdom. However, if put to a vote (for a second time in Scotland’s case) and a leave vote won the majority then that is democracy and that is what should happen.

@MephistophelesApprentice

I think the voting limit should be a 5 in GCSE Mathmatics. I'd be disqualified, but so would the most of the determinedly ignorant.

Why just use maths as the only standard?

The core subjects are English and Maths (as well as science).

Literacy and critical thinking is perhaps more important than maths when it comes to understanding politics. At no time did I learn about how propaganda works whilst studying/teaching maths. In English, however, I did learn about the persuasive techniques used in propaganda.

Lost in a cloud, why is the break up of the Union something to be sad about, yet the break up of the EU is something that I presume you want? What is the difference?

Calm down everyone.

Johnson has decreed that leaving the EU with No Deal will be wonderful. The UK will prosper mightily.

Ignore the nay-sayers, doomsters, gloomsters, remoaners and assorted other snowflakes and believe in the power of sweet reason.

Whatever you do, don't listen to people who work and trade with the EU on a daily basis, who believe that a No Deal Brexit will be:

• a catastrophe (National Farmers Union),
• a catastrophe (CBI),
• a catastrophe (Society of Motor Manufacturers)
• catastrophic (Road Haulage Association)
• far, far, worse than Covid (Bank of England)
• the end of UK farming and manufacturing (Brexit guru Prof. Minford)
• a loss of £40bn from the UK economy, putting 300,000 people out of work, and result in higher food prices (Government's own assessment)
• a crisis in the NHS and care homes as thousands of EU staff leave and cannot easily be replaced

Other than that, what is there to worry about?

Brexit seems two have two types of supporters. Firstly those who see an opportunity to exploit it for political or financial gain in the ensuing economic and social disaster (Boris, Gove, Mogg etc). Secondly those who were angry about their perceived lot and were foolish enough to be lead by the first group. I detest both equally, the first because they have hurt me and my family for personal gain whilst in a position of trust or privilege. The second because they didn't vote to improve their lot they voted to hurt anyone who was doing better than them. Brexit was a democratic vote, and before any one says the GE was a vote on Brexit remember labour did not have a clear mandate to remain and was lead by a communist.

I'm with you OP. Anyone who is not very well off - and will therefore be shafted by Brexit and even more so by no deal Brexit - if they voted for it - fuck 'em. I'm past caring. Obviously I feel for all of us who voted remain who are going to feel the ill effects. But anyone who voted for Brexit, voted for the Tories and is about to find themselves royally shafted - I've had it. They get zero sympathy from me. Farmers who rely heavily on EU subsidies and voted for it? Fishermen? All this fuss about the fishing industry which makes such a tiny portion of the economy. Well well done, you'll be solely able to fish all the U.K. waters, who on earth do you think you're going to be able to sell it all to. Obviously that's just a fraction of examples but I'm so wearied and fed up of the whole thing. It's going to be such a shit show.

@ssd

I'm Scottish and voted to remain and for independence.

I've given up with democracy, it doesn't happen here.

It does happen but you were out voted.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

Yes but any minute someone will be along to say it’s our fault for alienating the Leave voters, who are the only ones whose opinions are valid.

Just as we Democrats are supposed to now appease the deplorables here in the US.

Nope.

Leavers didn’t vote for no deal. They were promised that if we left, all would continue as before and the country would be £350m a week better off.

They were told that that was total crap as without the membership fee, we would lose access to the benefits of the EU, including millions of jobs and tariff-free trade and much reduced paperwork. That was all dismissed as Project Fear.

Please if you didn’t vote for No Deal can you lobby your MP not to go ahead with this. It is the least you can do for your children.

@Northernshepherd

Sorry but I'm a remainer too and struggle to have sympathy for this attitude. Yes it's shit. It's the last thing I want. But no I don't and never will believe 17m people are undeserving of any sympathy or compassion

They deserve the utmost consequences of their abysmally stupid and selfish votes.

Seems like you do still care OP, or else you wouldn’t start this thread in such emotional terms.

I voted remain, but I’ve always had empathy for the other side’s point of view. I don’t think they are thick or stupid, just in a different position. We live in a democracy and I value that above remaining in the EU.

I think we will crash out sadly. At the end of the day, I want the best possible growth and opportunities in Britain. I would get no pleasure out of things being a disaster and being proved “right” in my vote.

It’s a good question. I think with regard to Europe it comes down to history (I am a big history buff).
European countries, including the uk, have a rich and gritty history dating back hundreds of years. Each country’s history has shaped the people’s way of life, their culture and their ideals. For example, the result of the French Revolution way back in the 18th century means that french people are intrinsically aware of their personal rights and there are weekly protests in large cities against any changes perceived to interfere with their basic rights of freedom.
Although countries of the United Kingdom have not always been at peace, they have been now for a very long time and it could be argued that they have been together in peace for enough generations of people to now work as a cohesive entity and with similar ideals and expectations.
European countries are very different to each other and have many varied interests and main sources of income based on their history or their geographical location. I wholeheartedly promote peace and working together for the greater good but I have always had concerns about a large group of very different countries brought together under one united system of government. Particularly, as one poster pointed out earlier, that the very first original vote for a European system in the 70’s was a vote for trade only and not for a United government of Europe.

ATM we are all equal in the ballot box perhaps the only true equality we have and the most important one.

No we're not and you're an ill informed fool if you think that. A handful of swing voters in a few constituencies decided every election.

@Havanananana

Calm down everyone.

Johnson has decreed that leaving the EU with No Deal will be wonderful. The UK will prosper mightily.

Ignore the nay-sayers, doomsters, gloomsters, remoaners and assorted other snowflakes and believe in the power of sweet reason.

Whatever you do, don't listen to people who work and trade with the EU on a daily basis, who believe that a No Deal Brexit will be:

• a catastrophe (National Farmers Union),
• a catastrophe (CBI),
• a catastrophe (Society of Motor Manufacturers)
• catastrophic (Road Haulage Association)
• far, far, worse than Covid (Bank of England)
• the end of UK farming and manufacturing (Brexit guru Prof. Minford)
• a loss of £40bn from the UK economy, putting 300,000 people out of work, and result in higher food prices (Government's own assessment)
• a crisis in the NHS and care homes as thousands of EU staff leave and cannot easily be replaced

Other than that, what is there to worry about?

Well said.

Lots of people didn't vote Tory.
The Tories got in.
Every day people live with the consequences of idiots voting for Tories.

Swings and roundabouts innit.

Whilst I don't wish anyone hardship, actions have consequences and some people only learn through having direct experience of failure.

KenDodd you have wilfully misunderstood my post. There is no need for name-calling though. That just makes you look silly and petty.

Although countries of the United Kingdom have not always been at peace, they have been now for a very long time and it could be argued that they have been together in peace for enough generations of people to now work as a cohesive entity and with similar ideals and expectations.

Northern Ireland? The Good Friday Agreement was only signed in 1998.