to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

Polka I think many people voted as they wanted a real change. Successive governments had let them down yet certain parts of the country were thriving (particularly London).

Many understand that for a few years things will be tough but many believe that it might just improve. When for years and years life hasn’t improved when wages haven’t increased but costs of living have greatly can people really not understand how desperate some people have felt

I live in London I have struggled at time’s with costs but there is always opportunities around me some areas in the UK there isn’t and these are the areas that over who voted to leave

We also had a growing mistrust of politicians and a recession that many were still feeling in the years leading up to the referendum. I am angry at the politicians who ignored so many people, who supported a referendum without any real debate in parliament and who could have stalled the process but chose not to by voting for Article 50

@Crankley
Remainers have made it perfectly that they want to know what will happen. They, like the rest of us, will just have to wait and see. No-one knows - surely that's pretty obvious?

Let me be clear: it's April 2nd and you have no idea how much tax will be deduced from your salary. You are sure that ti will be more than before, but you don't know how much more. It could mean that you can afford your rent AND buy food or it won't be enough for one of them. And you have a family, maybe 2 kids who will potentially go hungry or have nowhere to live. But hey, don't worry because on Apr. 6 the new laws will come into force. Sure, there will be some new taxes, but we'll wait and see.
Does this clarify?

And no it should not be acceptable and defended that the gov did jack all. I'm fed up with people who voted leave and are still banging on about how good it'll be. No, it won't be. The fact that 19 days before the actual new laws (and your beloved sovereignty) kicks in the people who are in charge of the country have no plans on what will happen IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

or another analogy, because many seem hard of thinking.
It's like a pilot who mid flight confesses when the autopilot system breaks totally down that thus far he only flew on autopilot and actually has no idea how to fly a plane. But it'll be fine, we'll take it minute by minute and everything will be peachy.

There is always a level of uncertainty in life, it's the nature of it. This is well beyond that. This is putting millions on the edge of their seat. Not because it has to be this way! This lot wanted a no deal. They should at least have prepared for it!

And btw - fuck of with calling this hysteria. Hysteria is about ungoverned excess emotions. It's called anger if anything. Putting my livelihood and my kid's future on the line for no reason I think fairly creates an excess of emotions from me. But it's totally governed.
Hysterical is what one might get from seeing a mouse or a spider. I think this issue is a bit bigger than that. The fact that you don't care any more than let's see what will be is your own ignorance.

@Paddingtonjuice
I voted leave. I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote.

I have yet to read proper reasoning. In the end it boils down to some very good grifters playing one on a whole nation because there were enough morons to fall for blatant lies.

On the other hand no social class issue give anyone the right to take away 50 million people's right to FOM, freedom to study,.etc.
This whole thing is the quintessential parody of democracy. Orchestrated by very intelligent people for their agenda and carried out by above mentioned morons who have no critical thinking skills, have no logical reasoning skills but can parrot lines beautifully.

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Polka I think many people voted as they wanted a real change. Successive governments had let them down yet certain parts of the country were thriving (particularly London).

Many understand that for a few years things will be tough but many believe that it might just improve. When for years and years life hasn’t improved when wages haven’t increased but costs of living have greatly can people really not understand how desperate some people have felt

I live in London I have struggled at time’s with costs but there is always opportunities around me some areas in the UK there isn’t and these are the areas that over who voted to leave

We also had a growing mistrust of politicians and a recession that many were still feeling in the years leading up to the referendum. I am angry at the politicians who ignored so many people, who supported a referendum without any real debate in parliament and who could have stalled the process but chose not to by voting for Article 50

I understand all of those problems but none of them have any relation to the EU. In fact EU membership mitigated them in many ways and prevented them from being worse than they would otherwise have been. These are all issues entirely down to UK Governments. Change is not always for the better, as will become apparent shortly to anybody voting on such a crucial issue on such an ill-informed basis. It's really depressing that at a time when almost everybody has access to the internet and all of this information was there before the vote, that people could be so stupid.

It was madness as an idea in 2016 but now, I cannot understand anybody still supporting this. A no-deal outcome means a 6-8% drop in GDP. For context, the financial crisis was 4% (over several years). To add that to what is already the worst recession on record (i.e. for centuries) - e.g. in April alone GDP fell by 11% - is total insanity.

Surely poorer people would be particularly aware of things that might make them completely destitute and be worried about them (I certainly was when I was totally broke), not actively try to bring them about! At this point where people are still adamant in the face of all evidence that this is a great idea, I have to agree with the OP that I have lost sympathy for them and will direct mine only to those who did not choose this.

@ClaireP20

God you sound so angry..everything will be fine. Relax. Have a glass of wine. We leave either with or without a deal. All will be ok. Ignore the msm, everything is biased x

Good luck with that.

I may see it as the way you do too

But I have not experienced it. When you have nothing what can be taken away

And then I read (and hear over and over again) I hope they suffer - they have been suffering that’s the issue

As for FOM it was never about allowing our children to study abroad or to make it easier for us to go and work for a few years in Italy because we fancied a change it it’s an economical policy it’s suits business that’s good for governments that doesn’t mean it’s always good for people

Working class people study and work abroad too, albeit it may not be as much of a phenomenon as e.g. the middle class gap year. Those people will miss out just as surely as the middle classes.

As for nothing to lose, surely if we've learnt anything from the austerity years its that cut can be made on cut? Unfortunately, I think everyone in this country who isn't very wealthy has a lot to lose.

I believe people who thought they had nothing before the referendum are going to be even worse off when the results of what they voted for are seen.

And they will then know what it means to get what they voted for. Unfortunately those who didn't vote for it will be impacted through no fault of their own. I'll save my sympathy for them.

When you have nothing what can be taken away

The poorest people in the country will suffer most. This particular Tory government, nasty, untethered and without a moral compass between them will wreak havoc on people's lives. They will erode more EU-era safety nets than people knew existed.

It was never, ever to do with immigration and jobs. It was always about deregulation. BJ waving kippers around and blustering out his cut-price Churchill bullshit, while Farage whipped up a bit of anti-immigrant racism were the sideshows that enabled the Tory Ultras to creep stealthily towards their dream of unfettered profiteering.

I don't understand what Brexit ever offered people who couldn't afford to lose much. There is so much more at stake now.

But here we are.

I could think like that if I let myself but this isn't damage that will just affect one generation it will affect those being born now! So you're really saying fuck them too! Which is ludicrous isn't it?

I think people are well aware when they have had nothing

When there Is no money at the end of the week when once their absolute essential bills have been paid they have had to get pay day loans, when there isn’t enough money to put on the electric or gas meter this is how many many people have been living for years It wasn’t improving for them. My corner shop has a tab for many locals how many hundreds of shops across the country are doing this

It’s so patronising to think people are not aware of just how poor they are

My brother said the same thing to me because he knew I’d voted to leave, that he hoped I’d suffer and be destitute as a result of Brexit as I voted for it. It’s one of the last things he ever said to me before he unexpectedly dropped dead out of the blue in his 30s a month later, and it made me cry. It’s a horrible memory to keep coming back to you when your brother dies. Especially when we generally got on well. I don’t recommend holding onto these sort of grudges especially within families. It’s a really nasty sentiment and I think Brexit has been so horribly divisive for his country. I do wish we had never had the referendum.

I’d just like to say that not all people who voted leave are thick right wing boomer racists. I do deeply regret how I voted, and quite quickly, in fact I was quite shocked when I realised leave had won. I thought it hadn’t a hope in hell but I wanted to cast a protest vote which would wipe the smug grin off David Cameron’s face which I was so devastated to see after the Conservatives won the previous election (I voted for Milliband and Labour) and make him realise that the Westminster bubble doesn’t speak for the whole country, that people were suffering and struggling in the UK, and that the status quo was not something everyone was happy to settle for. The Leave messaging of “things are so great now, why would anyone in their right mind change it” was awful. Things weren’t great at all for me as a single mother trying to recover from domestic abuse back then or many people I knew personally and through my work. All the things we are seeing unmasked now during the pandemic, the inadequacies of the NHS, the proliferation of food banks, the people falling through the cracks of the welfare state, the lack of worker rights, the high costs of housing, all of that was clear to see even back then (clearly it’s got worse) and I couldn’t stand the thought that he would get a huge Remain victory, think everything is fine in the UK and that everyone agrees fully with how he is governing with austerity. My heart was breaking for what I could see happening to the country.

I thought it would shake things up (and obviously it did!) if the vote was closer than predicted but I still thought Remain would have it at the end of the day, it was predicted to win by a landslide. I also thought if Leave won that it would force the PM to resign (which it did) and that the Tories would have to rethink how they are governing and do it in a kinder more inclusive way, paying a bit more attention to the left wing this time. I thought it might force a general election which Labour or at least the Lib Dems might have a chance of winning this time. Got that wrong! But I was genuinely motivated to Vote Leave as a way of getting the Tories out and not entrenching their rule and shifting them to the right of their party. I may be naive but I personally hadn’t seen that coming.

I also thought that the vote was not going to be taken as written in stone but would simply be a message that people in the country aren’t happy and change is needed. And then they’d go away and analyse why people had voted as they did and look at what changes needed to be made. And whether people were unhappy domestically or if it was really about the EU. I definitely bought they’d go away and hammer out what was possible and then come back at least to Parliament if not the country for approval before making any rash moves like triggering Article 50. I remember being aghast when May did that and thinking why would she do that when we haven’t a clue about the details, why would you give yourself less time in a complicated negotiation...

Perhaps it was the wrong vote to try to use to make a change (ok it definitely was!) but living in a very safe Tory seat it was the only vote in which I could be heard in any way at all. I suspect there were also elements of personally reacting to being told what to do by the Remain messaging and wanting to show them that they can’t tell me how to vote. Particularly for someone who has been through domestic abuse, something in me just felt furious that the government were wasting taxpayers money on leaflets telling us that we had to vote Remian for the status quo or the sky would fall in, and as things were just so wonderful now, why would anyone rock the boat? I was tired of being a good girl and doing what I was told and living a pretty miserable life while everyone around said how wonderful the UK was currently so we should preserve the status quo. I felt as though I was living in a dictatorship where we were being told the right way to think by the government and the only way to make them understand that this is still a democracy was to vote Leave (might have accidentally been brainwashed by Farage et al on that one...) I freely admit I should have thought a bit harder about the actual issue we were voting on... I had no issue with the EU which is the tragic thing, in fact later on I recalled that EU worker legislation had had a directly positive impact on my personal working conditions in the past, and I had been a fool to vote as I did. But too late. I am definitely a Bregretter; we do exist and I wish I had voted differently, I know my parents do too (my younger siblings all voted remain). So perhaps when you read my story you might feel less like we all deserve to die in a ditch. Or perhaps you still feel that way. I’m just saying we are all human and there were multiple complex reasons for voting leave. I’m not defending it, I’m just saying it’s not as straightforward as it’s been boiled down to in the media. And people like me are frightened to admit we voted leave so keep schtum about it, most of my friends assume I voted remain and I haven’t corrected them as they would not understand.

@Endofmytether2020

I think that many people who voted for Brexit will blame lockdown restrictions for any economic disaster rather than owning it.

And we have a winner.

All the cuts to the welfare state, depredations to the NHS, downgraded pensions, slashed government services, tax increases, higher prices, and plummeting living standards for at least the next decade will be put down to “paying for Covid”.

Brexit will be judged a bunting clad triumph, a shot in the arm that just made sure UK Covid after effects weren’t as bad as in the rest of the world, and we should consider ourselves lucky little Blighters and just be damn grateful for it.

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

I think people are well aware when they have had nothing

When there Is no money at the end of the week when once their absolute essential bills have been paid they have had to get pay day loans, when there isn’t enough money to put on the electric or gas meter this is how many many people have been living for years It wasn’t improving for them. My corner shop has a tab for many locals how many hundreds of shops across the country are doing this

It’s so patronising to think people are not aware of just how poor they are

I am not being patronising. I lived for many years without any heating, with electricity that cut off all the time, without money for basic food etc. I wouldn't have voted for something that was clearly going to make that situation worse. And strup my children of many of their rights.

@rachelbloomfan

My brother said the same thing to me because he knew I’d voted to leave, that he hoped I’d suffer and be destitute as a result of Brexit as I voted for it. It’s one of the last things he ever said to me before he unexpectedly dropped dead out of the blue in his 30s a month later, and it made me cry. It’s a horrible memory to keep coming back to you when your brother dies. Especially when we generally got on well. I don’t recommend holding onto these sort of grudges especially within families. It’s a really nasty sentiment and I think Brexit has been so horribly divisive for his country. I do wish we had never had the referendum.

I’d just like to say that not all people who voted leave are thick right wing boomer racists. I do deeply regret how I voted, and quite quickly, in fact I was quite shocked when I realised leave had won. I thought it hadn’t a hope in hell but I wanted to cast a protest vote which would wipe the smug grin off David Cameron’s face which I was so devastated to see after the Conservatives won the previous election (I voted for Milliband and Labour) and make him realise that the Westminster bubble doesn’t speak for the whole country, that people were suffering and struggling in the UK, and that the status quo was not something everyone was happy to settle for. The Leave messaging of “things are so great now, why would anyone in their right mind change it” was awful. Things weren’t great at all for me as a single mother trying to recover from domestic abuse back then or many people I knew personally and through my work. All the things we are seeing unmasked now during the pandemic, the inadequacies of the NHS, the proliferation of food banks, the people falling through the cracks of the welfare state, the lack of worker rights, the high costs of housing, all of that was clear to see even back then (clearly it’s got worse) and I couldn’t stand the thought that he would get a huge Remain victory, think everything is fine in the UK and that everyone agrees fully with how he is governing with austerity. My heart was breaking for what I could see happening to the country.

I thought it would shake things up (and obviously it did!) if the vote was closer than predicted but I still thought Remain would have it at the end of the day, it was predicted to win by a landslide. I also thought if Leave won that it would force the PM to resign (which it did) and that the Tories would have to rethink how they are governing and do it in a kinder more inclusive way, paying a bit more attention to the left wing this time. I thought it might force a general election which Labour or at least the Lib Dems might have a chance of winning this time. Got that wrong! But I was genuinely motivated to Vote Leave as a way of getting the Tories out and not entrenching their rule and shifting them to the right of their party. I may be naive but I personally hadn’t seen that coming.

I also thought that the vote was not going to be taken as written in stone but would simply be a message that people in the country aren’t happy and change is needed. And then they’d go away and analyse why people had voted as they did and look at what changes needed to be made. And whether people were unhappy domestically or if it was really about the EU. I definitely bought they’d go away and hammer out what was possible and then come back at least to Parliament if not the country for approval before making any rash moves like triggering Article 50. I remember being aghast when May did that and thinking why would she do that when we haven’t a clue about the details, why would you give yourself less time in a complicated negotiation...

Perhaps it was the wrong vote to try to use to make a change (ok it definitely was!) but living in a very safe Tory seat it was the only vote in which I could be heard in any way at all. I suspect there were also elements of personally reacting to being told what to do by the Remain messaging and wanting to show them that they can’t tell me how to vote. Particularly for someone who has been through domestic abuse, something in me just felt furious that the government were wasting taxpayers money on leaflets telling us that we had to vote Remian for the status quo or the sky would fall in, and as things were just so wonderful now, why would anyone rock the boat? I was tired of being a good girl and doing what I was told and living a pretty miserable life while everyone around said how wonderful the UK was currently so we should preserve the status quo. I felt as though I was living in a dictatorship where we were being told the right way to think by the government and the only way to make them understand that this is still a democracy was to vote Leave (might have accidentally been brainwashed by Farage et al on that one...) I freely admit I should have thought a bit harder about the actual issue we were voting on... I had no issue with the EU which is the tragic thing, in fact later on I recalled that EU worker legislation had had a directly positive impact on my personal working conditions in the past, and I had been a fool to vote as I did. But too late. I am definitely a Bregretter; we do exist and I wish I had voted differently, I know my parents do too (my younger siblings all voted remain). So perhaps when you read my story you might feel less like we all deserve to die in a ditch. Or perhaps you still feel that way. I’m just saying we are all human and there were multiple complex reasons for voting leave. I’m not defending it, I’m just saying it’s not as straightforward as it’s been boiled down to in the media. And people like me are frightened to admit we voted leave so keep schtum about it, most of my friends assume I voted remain and I haven’t corrected them as they would not understand.

Thank you for sharing this. I found it really sad and upsetting to read. It's so late now that I need to sleep but I wanted to acknowledge what you wrote and thank you for the honesty.

I am so sorry about your brother @rachelbloomfan.

@Haffiana

Yep, it is the racist Northerners who will suffer the worst.

They wanted it, now they got it.

Ew.

I am angry with the people who voted to leave because now we’ll all suffer because of their choice. But I’m even angrier with those politicians who put us in this position in the first place. For having a referendum without ensuring people knew the truth about what might happen. For neglecting its citizens to the point where they were desperate for change. For making them believe that the EU was to blame for the situation when in reality a lot of UK charities supporting those let down by the government were receiving EU funding. The rich will survive this, the poor might not.

@akerman

It’s not democracy FFS.

Democracy demands on clear, full information being presented to voters and, in the case of a referendum, two clearly understood outcomes.

It does not depend on foreign influence and lies. Had our referendum been binding, it would have been deemed untenable under the terms of the Vienna convention.

How can we still be needing to explain this?

Exactly this.

I'm through with trying to point out the issues.

Let peoppe see what it REALLY means, when we're an isolated state in the edge of Europe.
We're leaving the world's biggest trading block.. But blue passports, eh? And 'sovrinty :too... Which we never lost, you idiots

I'm sad and furious. Furious that my life has been profoundly impacted by having my rights taken away from me. And sad for the kids who are going to suffer.

@chomalungma

I am past caring now. I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

This seems like an eminently reasonable position OP.

If I'd caused the crisis that led to my employers making mass redundancies I'd expect to be first in line to lose my job.

And so should those who helped cause this Brexit crisis.

They wanted it.

They made it happen.

Who else should bear the consequences?

@PyongyangKipperbang

I think the problem is that the EU are trying to make our exit so bad for us that no other country wants to leave either. If they co-operate and make it ok then it wont be long before other countries exit too.

And Brexiters will cite that as the reason its all gone wrong, and tbh I can see their point as the EU are being very very difficult over this. However, I do wish we could just say "You know what, lets forget all this Brexit nonsense and pretend it never happened" and stay in!

But people can’t just take the good bits and pick and choose what they want and don’t want from the EU.

Besides some people were perfectly happy with a no deal Brexit whilst others weren’t...so how is that democratic? When people voted without realising or being notified of the ramifications in a referendum that actually isn’t legally binding, is that even democratic?

As I said before, I was cautiously optimistic. I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, things weren’t going to be as bad as others were saying.

In fact, whilst being part of the EU, the UK benefited a lot. And what will happen to places that received EU subsidies? Where will that money now come from? Anyone remember Cornwall where the vast majority voted for Brexit and then somehow forgot that this meant no more EU subsidies?

I really don’t think many people actually knew what they were voting for. There were select few who like to say they did, and would say they don’t need to explain themselves to “remoaners”, or that the narrow result should be respected when the whole premise of the Referendum was not clear and it was just merely a way for Cameron to address the fractions in the Conservative party.

I remember Farage once saying that Tory backbenchers were more UKIP than he was. That to me spoke volumes of the internal politics amongst the Tories.

The fact of the matter is, we need to unite countries economically and politically in order to secure lasting peace to prevent world wars. How that is all achieved without the EU will be an interesting question.

The problem with this OP, is that we are all affected adversely, whether we voted for it or not.

And a lot of people voted to leave having no idea that we'd be taken over by the likes of JRM just wanting to make money off the suffering of others. The arrogance of him and his ilk is breath-taking.

@RachelBloomfan - you are not the only person I've heard of who voted leave not against the eu, but against David Cameron.

Its one of the things the left have been quick to ignore, Corbyn's refusal to share a platform with David Cameron. This made it "Cameron vs Boris", Boris was popular, Cameron was not. Labour leadership effectively didn't join in the campaign in an effective way and it did risk being "vote with or against Cameron" when they did that.

I think nobody over 65/75 should be able to vote on things like this.

Brilliant. Shall we extend this to those who are younger but unhealthy too?

There are utter deplorable attitudes on this and similar threads. Thankfully they do not reflect the wider population from what I can see.

@Newrumpus

I think nobody over 65/75 should be able to vote on things like this.

Brilliant. Shall we extend this to those who are younger but unhealthy too?

There are utter deplorable attitudes on this and similar threads. Thankfully they do not reflect the wider population from what I can see.

I think you are extrapolating. I don’t think anybody said that young unhealthy people should not vote. Such an attitude would be “deplorable” and I do not think anyone voiced such an opinion on this thread or similar threads. If I’m wrong, please direct me to that thread because I’ve yet to see that. I also don’t think it’s conducive to a debate to jump to wild conclusions.

Perhaps what the previous poster meant was that people of a certain age should not get to vote 🗳 when those decisions can impact the future generations.

I personally do not agree that specific categories of people, based on age etc., should be disenfranchised because we should all have a say for we are in a democracy. But equally, I do think the voting age should be reduced, perhaps to at least 16. It must be frustrating for those younger than the age of 18 who have to witness significant changes in policies that will impact their lives but have absolutely no say in it.

Clearly Exit I was suggesting where such deplorable thinking leads

When those who lose a vote blame the voters for getting it wrong or the technicalities of the system they trying to change the wrong thing.

You will not get debate on this subject here, just utterly deplorable prejudices.