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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

999 replies

chomalungma · 11/12/2020 19:04

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ilovesooty · 12/12/2020 01:34

@ClaireP20

God you sound so angry..everything will be fine. Relax. Have a glass of wine. We leave either with or without a deal. All will be ok. Ignore the msm, everything is biased x
I'm rather inclined to think that attitude demonstrates breathtaking lack of awareness but no stupidity has the capacity to surprise me any more.

And yes - I'm every bit as angry as I was the day the result of the referendum was announced.

Defenbaker · 12/12/2020 01:35

This thread is toxic. Fear seems to be bringing out the worst in people. Such vitriol aimed at millions of people who happened to vote a different way - just vile.

veeeeh · 12/12/2020 01:38

Gently asking why UK decided not to go EEA and leave EU on that basis?

I know the answer, but do you?

ilovesooty · 12/12/2020 01:43

@Defenbaker

This thread is toxic. Fear seems to be bringing out the worst in people. Such vitriol aimed at millions of people who happened to vote a different way - just vile.
Please yourself. I agree with the OP.

I don't know many people who voted leave but I despise every last one of them . If any one of them dares to complain about the circumstances they chose to vote for, I can't see myself holding back on what I think of them. That includes members of my own family.

Pyewhacket · 12/12/2020 01:46

@Defenbaker

This thread is toxic. Fear seems to be bringing out the worst in people. Such vitriol aimed at millions of people who happened to vote a different way - just vile.
Totally agree.
ilovesooty · 12/12/2020 01:50

There is a lot more to this than "happened to vote in a different way ".

It isn't like a general election where things can be changed after a few years.

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 12/12/2020 01:53

Defenbaker
This thread is toxic. Fear seems to be bringing out the worst in people. Such vitriol aimed at millions of people who happened to vote a different way - just vile.

I agree too

We didn’t win we too were duped into believing there could be a second referendum. I feel we have all been duped

PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 01:58

@akerman

It's true that the EU will also be damaged by a no-deal Brexit, but the damage is sustained by 27 countries as opposed to just one.

I don't agree that the EU has behaved badly on this. They didn't want us to leave. They didn't want us to become a third country. They didn't want us to set up as their competitor. Leave voters chose this, and these are the consequences. Why should they make things easier for people who are setting out to compete directly with them? And they are only imposing the tariffs if we decide in the future not to align with them, which will make us more competitive. Johnson says we won't do this, but why should they trust him? And if we aren't going to diverge, why on earth is he choosing to impose these tariffs upon UK business now?

Your point lays bare for all to see what the entire purpose of Brexit was to begin with, and why this issue about standards has become the fundamental sticking point. Rich people funded Brexit precisely because they will make a lot of money from slashing standards such as employment rights etc. Which is why the idea of alignment is an anathema to them. The £ signs are lighting up their eyes and they have almost achieved the outcome they intended since before the referendum. If only people had opened their eyes to see what was as plain as day. Do you remember them all protesting that "nobody is suggesting we leave the single market"? Why are people so gullible? Sad
Byllis · 12/12/2020 01:59

People don’t ‘happen’ to vote a certain way - it’s an active choice. We have a right to make that choice, but we don’t have the right for everyone to approve of it or think kindly on it.

If this view is vile, then so be it.

PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 02:00

@ilovesooty

There is a lot more to this than "happened to vote in a different way ".

It isn't like a general election where things can be changed after a few years.

Exactly. There has to be some ownership of the consequences when you strip numerous rights and protections from your fellow citizens, make them permanently poorer, create a situation where thousands will lose jobs and homes. And for no discernable benefit whatsoever.
TheWichitaWineOne · 12/12/2020 02:07

This thread is toxic. Fear seems to be bringing out the worst in people. Such vitriol aimed at millions of people who happened to vote a different way - just vile

Brexit is toxic. It is for good. It affects our children and grandchildren and beyond. Some people have had their lives forcibly upended by it. People's lives will change forever because of Brexit - and not for the better. People have lost friends and family members over it -some because of ideology, and some through moving out the country following the vote to leave (I'm dealing with this one). It is toxic as fuck.

The blithe 'get over it' bullshit is reductive and vile itself - it completely ignores the sharp end of this hideous mess.

TheSandman · 12/12/2020 02:08

@Mistlewoeandwhine

Shared by a friend:
Where is that from? I'm trying to track its origin.
HollyCarrot · 12/12/2020 02:12

I read some of the comments and am wondering are ye genuinely insane? Like yeah, off you go on a noble lonely whatever trade deal with whoever you can find. Or maybe take the handy deal the EU does for you. If you're lucky. I just can't see why you would throw that away in the first place.

Paddingtonjuice · 12/12/2020 02:17

I voted leave. I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote.

ilovesooty · 12/12/2020 02:21

I'm afraid I can't discuss with people why they voted Leave any more. They've brought us to where we are and for me it's past the point where I'm interested in their reasons. Why Leave voters did what they did won't affect what happens now. Just own what you've done.

HollyCarrot · 12/12/2020 02:22

@Paddingtonjuice

I voted leave. I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote.
People voted. They are entitled to discuss it. You are equally entitled to debate it. That's it really.
PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 02:26

@Paddingtonjuice

I voted leave. I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote.
What bearing does class have on it? All forecasts show that the poorest will suffer the most from this.
TheWichitaWineOne · 12/12/2020 02:26

I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote

In a way, so do I. But you can see from my posts and others how passionately opposed to Brexit people are, and for what reasons. There are similarities to be drawn with Trump's America - it's not just vague political affiliation, it's much more fundamental than that. People are seeing their way of life being transformed against their will.

In time, those conversations will happen, but right now, many people are feeling it much, much too keenly to listen to why people could possibly have WANTED this.

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 12/12/2020 02:27

Paddingtonjuice there is absolutely no doubt that much of the Brexit vote was driven by the social class divide in this country

As we have now seen huge areas particularly in the north that have now turned their back on Labour to vote Tory because they voted and still want us to leave the EU

Maybe we should have looked at why there was such a divide we knew this before the referendum it was just ignored as for many their lives had improved

PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 02:30

@PolkadotGiraffe

it is totally unacceptable for the EU to want to continue to have control over the UK's laws and trade

That isn't their position though, is it? Either you are as disingenuous as Boris or you are just parroting things you have heard/ read without any grasp of the facts.

The EU has NOT at any point said we have to follow EU standards to sign an agreement. What they have said is that IF we choose to try to gain competitive advantage by slashing our environmental standards or employment standards etc, so that they fall significantly below the EU level - in an attempt to reduce UK companies' cost base and undercut EU businesses - then we will not have tariff-free access to their markets. That is a perfectly reasonable position, entirely their right, and has been their stated position since before the referendum. It is entirely logical and obvious that they would protect their own jobs and companies in this way. How is anybody surprised about this?!

In fact is was exactly this system in terms of the trade off between alignment on standards and access to the single market that protected many of our own industries from being undercut by jurisdictions with lowers standards like the US and China, while we were EU members.
Byllis · 12/12/2020 02:30

I think the socioeconomic angle is over-egged sometimes.

Most of the leavers I know are middle class. The key difference between them and the middle class remainers I know is that the former group tends to have a more negative, chip-on-the-shoulder, life is crap and getting crapper outlook. Anecdotal, I know, but evident enough to be able to predict pretty well how people voted.

I can’t say about working class or aristocracy leave-remain differences. The majority of working class people I know are remainers.

PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 02:31

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Paddingtonjuice there is absolutely no doubt that much of the Brexit vote was driven by the social class divide in this country

As we have now seen huge areas particularly in the north that have now turned their back on Labour to vote Tory because they voted and still want us to leave the EU

Maybe we should have looked at why there was such a divide we knew this before the referendum it was just ignored as for many their lives had improved

I agree with much of this however none of it has anything to do with the EU so it is not a valid excuse.
PolkadotGiraffe · 12/12/2020 02:34

@TheWichitaWineOne

I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote

In a way, so do I. But you can see from my posts and others how passionately opposed to Brexit people are, and for what reasons. There are similarities to be drawn with Trump's America - it's not just vague political affiliation, it's much more fundamental than that. People are seeing their way of life being transformed against their will.

In time, those conversations will happen, but right now, many people are feeling it much, much too keenly to listen to why people could possibly have WANTED this.

I don't think it will be forgiven. What has been done is so disgraceful and the lack of remorse adds insult to injury. Years spent asking for a single good reason for it that stands up to scrutiny that justifies the downsides, and all we get is tumbleweed.
ilovesooty · 12/12/2020 02:35

Cameron never expected to have to hold a referendum because he didn't expect to win the election with a working majority. Once he did the Remain campaign was very poor. He had no understanding that people might actually vote to leave. He then quit leaving others to pick up the mess. There were plenty of turns after that, all with Johnson's naked self serving grubby little paws all over them.

The fact is that Leave voters are still trying to justify what they did. I can't debate with them now. They did what they did and I'm still too angry.

Saoirse7 · 12/12/2020 02:35

@Paddingtonjuice

I voted leave. I genuinely wish I could discuss it with people on here and in real life without people sneering and purposely not understanding the social class dynamics that came with this vote.
I'm genuinely interested in your main reasons. Totally non-goady.

If you come from a low social class I honestly cannot see how Brexit will alleviate your situation but honestly I would like to know what positives it will bring.

Also, what area in the UK are you from?