to think 'Fuck em, if you want No Deal Brexit so hard, then enjoy it' and fuck you if it turns out shit for you

[chomalungma]

I am past caring now.
I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

@GirlsBlouse17

I don't think most people who voted for Brexit wanted or expected no deal. I think many assumed we would end up with a Norway type agreement or some kind of "sensible" trading relationship. Not the shit show that Boris has created

This is amusing. Why did they think very wealthy people were funding the campaign then?

The problem with the argument that Leavers were misled or were voting for a deal / EEA is that there were opportunities to make their voices heard when it became obvious how this was turning out. The calls for a second referendum were orchestrated by Remain groups and the people who attended polite marches and signed petitions were, by and large, remainers.

Where were the leavers who regretted their votes?

When you combined ardent Leavers, remainers who unaccountably said they’d vote leave a second time because of democracy (never understood that argument) and everyone who was just too bored with it all to get involved, there was a huge missed opportunity to reverse things. If the public mood had visibly turned anti-brexit (or anti-leaving the single market, anti-no-deal, etc.) there are excellent chances we would not be in the position we are.

So, yes, I think we can be upset with leavers if things turn out badly. Along with, in my opinion, everyone who just rolled over.

@chomalungma

I am past caring now. I feel for people who didn't want Brexit. Who know all the implications and can see the issues that are coming.

But if you want No Deal Brexit and it fucks you up, tough shit.

You wanted it. You get it. You own it.

And pardon me if I don't give a shit anymore about you.

Thought you were referring to the EU.

And yes, I agree.

@Byllis

The problem with the argument that Leavers were misled or were voting for a deal / EEA is that there were opportunities to make their voices heard when it became obvious how this was turning out. The calls for a second referendum were orchestrated by Remain groups and the people who attended polite marches and signed petitions were, by and large, remainers.

Where were the leavers who regretted their votes?

When you combined ardent Leavers, remainers who unaccountably said they’d vote leave a second time because of democracy (never understood that argument) and everyone who was just too bored with it all to get involved, there was a huge missed opportunity to reverse things. If the public mood had visibly turned anti-brexit (or anti-leaving the single market, anti-no-deal, etc.) there are excellent chances we would not be in the position we are.

So, yes, I think we can be upset with leavers if things turn out badly. Along with, in my opinion, everyone who just rolled over.

I agree. The pig-headed stubborn refusal to admit it was a mistake, even when the pro-Leave Government's own official documents repeatedly said it would cause chaos, raise prices, cause a recession, cost jobs etc etc, is what makes me most furious if all. If some people were duped, even though all of the information was publicly available before the vote, one could just about accept it IF they had then tried to rectify the mistake and prevent the damage. The sheer arrogance and selfishness of ruining many people's lives because you can't admit you got something wrong in the face of a wall of undeniable evidence, is shocking.

I voted leave.I don't want you to give a shit about me I'm fine with my decision thanks.

Oh yes, it is all the fault of the big bad nasty EU.
And Jeremy Corbyn. Don’t forget it’s all his fault too... 😂🤣

In rl I know loads f people who voted both ways, no leaver voted because of what was written on the side of a bus...

But some Remainers did vote because they thought they wouldn't be allowed to travel to the eu anymore.

I'm sure both sides have equal measure of spur of the moment votes and those based on deeper rational reasons?

@Ilovegreentomatoes

I voted leave.I don't want you to give a shit about me I'm fine with my decision thanks.

I hope you'll be volunteering to pick up the costs that other people incur as a result.

But some Remainers did vote because they thought they wouldn't be allowed to travel to the eu anymore.

But losing freedom of movement is huge. It's not a shallow reason at all.

For those who are saying we don't know what will happen, many have a lot of insight about their industries.

This is from someone I know. Someone who's company sells seeds. He will have to pay £82,500 pounds to continue selling his current stock. If he can get hold of it. This applies to every company that sells seeds.

Musicians know, read this thread from the composer Howard Goodall threadreaderapp.com/thread/1326554078256656389.html

Banks know, they are leaving. Nissan has no Plan B for a no deal withdrawal. There are many many more examples.

The pig-headed stubborn refusal to admit it was a mistake, even when the pro-Leave Government's own official documents repeatedly said it would cause chaos, raise prices, cause a recession, cost jobs etc etc, is what makes me most furious if all. If some people were duped, even though all of the information was publicly available before the vote, one could just about accept it IF they had then tried to rectify the mistake and prevent the damage. The sheer arrogance and selfishness of ruining many people's lives because you can't admit you got something wrong in the face of a wall of undeniable evidence, is shocking

I agree, however, it's not a mistake from the POV of the disaster capitalists. It's all going rather nicely, actually.

Totally agree OP
Fuck em! 🤷‍♀️

@raskolnikova

I wonder how long the stereotype of remainers being 'north London/metropolitan elite' will take to die...

...probably as long as the stereotype that all leavers are elderly, racist and Northern

Everyone I know who voted for the shitshow is blaming the EUs greed for the current circumstances, rather than it being our government’s fault for lying and being underprepared. They will never admit they were wrong.

The question is ilivegreentomatoes do you give a shiny shit about anyone else?...or are you a true Brexiteer🤣🤣...

ilovegreentomatoes, apologies for the typo😄

I'm a Leave voter. Like most I would have preferred a deal but it is totally unacceptable for the EU to want to continue to have control over the UK's laws and trade. Macron is determined to make our exit as difficult as possible, demanding fishing rights for the EU in our waters. I know a lot of our fishing industry closed down but that is no reason to agree and it could be built up again. The bottom line is that the EU want to make it as difficult as possible to discourage any other EU country from leaving.

Someone said that the EU is our largest trading partner. I think you will find we are theirs too. In 2017, the EU sold about £67 billion more to the UK in goods and services than we sold to them. Exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth £274 billion in 2017, while exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about £341 billion. Germany is the largest exporter to the UK, think of all those Mercs and BMWs.

Remainers have spread doom and gloom for over four years. The answer is that we don't know how this will initially impact us or for how long but I'm going to take it one day at a time and deal with each day as well as I'm able, not because I'm rich, I'm disabled and far from rich but I think living with so much negativity in your life is damaging to your health.

I know you probably don't want to hear any of this I won't be back to argue, just wanted to put my side of the story.

I like Howard Goodall’s final point. A good riposte to those brexiters who adopt the condescending tones of an old school nanny when anyone points out the downsides of losing FOM and trading benefits. Comments like...

• You already need a visa to get into other countries (yes, and what a pain it is).

• People managed to live and work abroad before the EU (generally if they were offered a contract in the other country, in which case strings are very often attached, or were wealthy).

• Who needs fancy french cheeses, there are plenty of British alternatives (a fair point if there were some benefits coming our way, but as it is just a reminder of how much greyer life is going to be).

And so on.

@QueenOfTheDoubleWide
I don't like that stereotype either, being Northern myself.

@PyongyangKipperbang

I think the problem is that the EU are trying to make our exit so bad for us that no other country wants to leave either. If they co-operate and make it ok then it wont be long before other countries exit too.

And Brexiters will cite that as the reason its all gone wrong, and tbh I can see their point as the EU are being very very difficult over this. However, I do wish we could just say "You know what, lets forget all this Brexit nonsense and pretend it never happened" and stay in!

Why should the EU make it easy? How would it benefit the EU to give the UK the same or similar benefits to their actual member states?

The UK had the cushiest deal in the history of the EU and fucked it up.

@Byllis

I like Howard Goodall’s final point. A good riposte to those brexiters who adopt the condescending tones of an old school nanny when anyone points out the downsides of losing FOM and trading benefits. Comments like...

• You already need a visa to get into other countries (yes, and what a pain it is).

• People managed to live and work abroad before the EU (generally if they were offered a contract in the other country, in which case strings are very often attached, or were wealthy).

• Who needs fancy french cheeses, there are plenty of British alternatives (a fair point if there were some benefits coming our way, but as it is just a reminder of how much greyer life is going to be).

And so on.

Also the misconception that getting a visa (specifically to live/work somewhere) is just 'filling in some extra forms'.

When I needed a Russian visa I had to have a HIV test. They literally wanted my blood. And that was only to spend a few months there. I don't know all the different visa requirements for all the different EU countries (yes, I know they will be different from Russian ones), but I doubt all you will need to do to live in Germany, France, etc, is to just 'fill in a form'.

It's true that the EU will also be damaged by a no-deal Brexit, but the damage is sustained by 27 countries as opposed to just one.

I don't agree that the EU has behaved badly on this. They didn't want us to leave. They didn't want us to become a third country. They didn't want us to set up as their competitor. Leave voters chose this, and these are the consequences. Why should they make things easier for people who are setting out to compete directly with them? And they are only imposing the tariffs if we decide in the future not to align with them, which will make us more competitive. Johnson says we won't do this, but why should they trust him? And if we aren't going to diverge, why on earth is he choosing to impose these tariffs upon UK business now?

The DUP and Little Englanders here in NI have really shot themselves in the foot. They thought Brexit would mean a hard border in Ireland and would help to isolate them in the UK but it actually brought about a sea border and serious debate about a referendum.

It's hilarious to see the likes of Sammy Wilson and TUV's Jim Allister spitting feathers. Turns out being a short sighted, sectarian bigot doesn't get you far

I'm a bit worried for Leave Voters actually.

Especially the ones who have been vocal with the slogans. "No Deal Is Better Than a Bad Deal" "Go, Go WTO" etc.

When things get bad people are going to blame them aren't they?

(I personally blame the lying liars who lied to them.)

Also, of course we know what's going to happen.

Actions have logical and entirely predictable consequences.

(Although, there will be unintended consequences as well of course. )