Are people right to be worried about the vaccine?

[CutToChase]

I had a "good tempered" argument with DP last night. He says theres no way hes putting something in his body that hasnt undergone all the checks and tests and says that normally vaccines take 20 years to approve.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

In response he says people have forgotten a minuscule proportion of people actually suffer from covid. He says this is all about money (however he is a conspiracy theorist...)

What do you think about the vaccine and the speed of it?

Also vote:
YABU = I will not be getting the vaccine
YANBU = I will be getting the vaccine

Wonder how those Covid surgeons and nurses with asthma cope with wearing a mask all day long?🤔

Presumably they know they can cope with it and choose to wear it when they sign up to be surgeons/nurses. If they develop asthma severe enough to preclude wearing a mask, I assume they are referred to OH. That has nothing to do with this.

Or maybe they do it because they have to.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

They don’t have to. They have a free choice to seek employment elsewhere. Nobody is entitled to be a surgeon or nurse. However, we are entitled not to have medical treatments forced on us. Including this one.

I would have the vaccine in a heartbeat if it meant that I didn't have to worry about the potential for putting the ones I love at risk. I would still follow social distancing as I have got used to it now and don't go to supermarkets etc and prefer it!

I am going to have to wait quite a while though as I'm pregnant and then will be breastfeeding and as per most new things due to ethics it hasn't been tested on pregnant women/BF women.
Thankfully for BF one of the countries top pharmaceutical specialists is examining the data. She produces lists of BF friendly/effects of medicines so I am hopeful with her research this may change.

What I struggle to understand with people who do not wish to have vaccines is why they don't do their own proper research. I don't mean watch some conspiracy video I mean actually read up on the type of vaccine, how they work etc.

The other thing which I find farcical is if you read the potential side effects out to a person without telling them what it is and ask if they would take it then give the drug name (e.g ibuprofen/paracetamol) most people wouldn't bat an eyelid to taking them and have never read the side effects just because they have become the norm.

I don't agree with having the vaccine forced on people and sadly you will always get the people who are ill educated in this matter or are morally bankrupt who will decide against the vaccine , the same as they decide to put others at risk by not socially distanced.

Thank god, not all are like that and we have (mostly) amazing people in this country who are all trying to do their bit for society.

@flaviaritt

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, if you don't want the vaccine that's fine, but you can't then go and mix in the nicieites being part of a society offers.

Fundamental freedoms aren’t niceties. This would fail at the judicial level because it is not ethical and there are existing statutes that would stand against it. That’s just my prediction. We will have to see.

There is no fundamental freedom to travel, most places you need visas etc which can be denied.

Going to restaurants, OK maybe that's a bit of a pipe dream but I think it's pretty disgusting that people decide to not have a vaccine and then freely wander about putting others at risk. I think that is morally wrong and not how members of a society should operate.

There is no fundamental freedom to travel, most places you need visas etc which can be denied.

Other governments are of course within their rights to refuse visas to the unvaccinated. That isn’t the issue here. The question is whether my government has the right to prevent me from travelling if the other country doesn’t refuse me a visa. And I would argue no.

OK maybe that's a bit of a pipe dream but I think it's pretty disgusting that people decide to not have a vaccine and then freely wander about putting others at risk. I think that is morally wrong and not how members of a society should operate.

And you are entitled to that opinion.

It would be interesting to look at the percentage of health staff with asthma.

12% of the U.K. have it. That means 12% of frontline health staff must have it. Wonder if they all leave as they ‘can’t’ wear a mask....

@PinkiOcelot

What about the unknowns of this vaccine?

It is unknown if it causes harm to a foetus therefore not advised for pregnant women. Or women wanting to become pregnant. It is not advised for breastfeeding women either.

And rather a big unknown is it is unknown whether it can cause infertility.

But go on. Rush off and get it.

This applies to many medical interventions. It isn’t ethical to conduct clinical trials of new technologies on pregnant or lactating women so they are contraindicated. This doesn’t mean that there is a suspicion that they are harmful - it means there is no evidence they aren’t. Since being pregnant is a temporary state, it makes sense to wait until you have had the baby. I’m sure that this will change in time.

I’m not clear why this vaccine would pose a risk to infertility. Could you please link to credible sources that suggest this would be a problem? Everything I can find refutes this.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

What point do you think you’re making here?

From Asthma.org.U.K.🤨

Photo didn’t upload

I don’t see your point, Arse. Asthma is a condition where - if the wearer feels it is needed - they don’t have to wear a mask. The legislation doesn’t allow the government to insist that they wear one. However, if they can’t wear one, that does mean they’re not suited to particular jobs. And that’s fine, because there is no statutory right to work in a particular field. But there IS a statutory right not to have medical treatments performed without your voluntary consent. They are not allowed to pressure you. It’s the law.

@PinkiOcelot

What about the unknowns of this vaccine?

It is unknown if it causes harm to a foetus therefore not advised for pregnant women. Or women wanting to become pregnant. It is not advised for breastfeeding women either.

And rather a big unknown is it is unknown whether it can cause infertility.

But go on. Rush off and get it.

This is the same for every single new medicine it is never tested on pregnant women at first and then it becomes a data collection exercise. It's the ethics behind it.

Also it is currently not recommended for BF mothers but the top pharmaceutical specialist in BF effects has started researching it already so hopefully this will change.

I’m fairly cautious and prefer to watch and wait (that goes for everything not just vaccines) but as someone last on the list I will be able to do that anyway. However my mum is going to be one of the first on the list so this makes me a little more worried. However if she catches C19 she is likely to be extremely ill. In her case the vaccine is likely the wiser option and keep fingers crossed there aren’t bad or long term reactions from it.

@PinkiOcelot

It is unknown if it causes harm to a foetus therefore not advised for pregnant women. Or women wanting to become pregnant. It is not advised for breastfeeding women either.

And rather a big unknown is it is unknown whether it can cause infertility.

some other ‘big unknowns’: whether it causes you to grow feathers and cluck like a chicken

Of course they cannot guarantee these things when the data does not yet exist. This is why, in an abundance of caution, it has to be referenced in the information leaflet. This is absolutely standard practise for any new medication and does not mean evidence exists to suggest it could be the case.

The problem with the conspiracy theory route is no matter how rational an argument you make as to a) Covid exist and is a problem, b) the vaccines are a good thing
They won't believe you and will argue to the nth degree how you are wrong and just falling for the lies of the MSM/ government/Illuminati etc
My brother thinks CV19 is all a hoax and is just made up to impinge his freedoms even when we point out DH is a frontline dr dealing with very real, very ill CV 19 patients in his hospital - apparently my DH is wrong 🙄

@flaviaritt

I hope they do, if you don't want to be vaccinated against this fucking awful disease that had destroyed the world then you don't get to go and have nice trips abroad. I hope it becomes mandatory for going to restaurants etc too

I would be stunned if such a decision wasn’t subject to judicial review. There are very stringent laws about forcing medical treatments on people. Making travel contingent on particular treatments would fall foul of those laws, in my view.

And I get the logic; I understand that it upsets people that some people are going to refuse the vaccine. But ultimately they have every right to do that and shouldn’t be punished for it.

I would be stunned if it was subject to judicial review. You can only take judicial review proceedings against public bodies. Neither airlines nor restaurants are public bodies. They are perfectly free to decide who they do or do not want on their premises or inside their planes.

@flaviaritt

And by not having a vaccine you are knowingly choosing to spread the virus

That simply isn’t true. If you don’t have symptoms you don’t know you have the virus, so how could you knowingly be spreading it? Talk sense.

Because if you haven't been vaccinated, the chances of you having the virus without knowing it and therefore spreading it are obviously one hell of a lot higher than if you have been vaccinated.

If you had terminal cancer and they said well have a new drug for you to take to make it go away’ I bet you would take it without a second thought and gratefully too. However, because this is to protect other people and you can rely on heard immunity if enough other people get vaccinated you now ‘need to do your research’ .

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow DH is a hospital consultant with asthma he has been wearing masks on and off his whole career as he does procedures in theatre and obviously almost permanently within the pandemic. He doesn't like it but is quite capable of doing it as are many of his other colleagues with asthma as it's part of the job.
The majority of people with asthma won't have a physical problem with it, they might psychologically find it difficult or it might just be a handy excuse because they don't want to.

That’s what l thought.👍🏻

@CutToChase

I had a "good tempered" argument with DP last night. He says theres no way hes putting something in his body that hasnt undergone all the checks and tests and says that normally vaccines take 20 years to approve.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

In response he says people have forgotten a minuscule proportion of people actually suffer from covid. He says this is all about money (however he is a conspiracy theorist...)

What do you think about the vaccine and the speed of it?

Also vote:
YABU = I will not be getting the vaccine
YANBU = I will be getting the vaccine

Not read the whole thread.

Vaccine is probably fine.

However, I’m not surprised people are sceptical. A healthy dose of scepticism is a usually good thing.

Big pharmaceutical is notorious for being the “dark side”. It’s an industry with a reputation for making big money at the expense of vulnerable people’s bad luck. Discussions on the ethics of Big Pharma are not new.

Pharma’s tarnished reputation helps fuel the anti-vaccine movement interesting article that explains where the lack of trust appears to have originated.

For this vaccine Big Pharma have insured they have legal protection if anything goes wrong with the vaccine. I can totally see why they want to do that to cover themselves in case things do go wrong: they’re mitigating their own risks whilst also helping to deliver a vaccine quicker than usual given that we are in a pandemic. However, it means the responsibility is on whomever takes the vaccine and so that’s why people are maybe a bit more cautious than usual: they have no comeback and that’s the risk they take.

Big Pharma have apparently issued a safety pledge, but not everyone is convinced because of a deep mistrust that’s built over a long time. Big pharma's safety pledge isn't enough to build public confidence in COVID-19 vaccine – here's what will.

Covid vaccines offer Big Pharma a chance of rehabilitation
So that’s an incentive that big pharmaceutical do have for getting this vaccine right.

Vaccination programs have been massively important throughout our medical history. It’s important this is done right too. Building public confidence is key, but part of that is also understanding where the distrust comes from (there’s no smoke without fire...).

Also, the conspiracy that the vaccine is to put a monitoring chip in us is crazy given that the first on the list are the very elderly. Sure, the powers that be want to track Dorris in a care home...really?

You can only take judicial review proceedings against public bodies. Neither airlines nor restaurants are public bodies. They are perfectly free to decide who they do or do not want on their premises or inside their planes.

That’s a slightly different point. The government might actually have to pass laws disallowing this. But I doubt it. Airlines and restaurants want to make money like everyone else.

The majority of people with asthma won't have a physical problem with it, they might psychologically find it difficult or it might just be a handy excuse because they don't want to

That is true, but it doesn’t change the law.