Are people right to be worried about the vaccine?

[CutToChase]

I had a "good tempered" argument with DP last night. He says theres no way hes putting something in his body that hasnt undergone all the checks and tests and says that normally vaccines take 20 years to approve.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

In response he says people have forgotten a minuscule proportion of people actually suffer from covid. He says this is all about money (however he is a conspiracy theorist...)

What do you think about the vaccine and the speed of it?

Also vote:
YABU = I will not be getting the vaccine
YANBU = I will be getting the vaccine

It is based on the vaccine for previous SARS.

Well bollocks to that hun that vaccine was thrown out it was no good in the end. Not reassuring

This above is incorrect. It was NOT thrown out. The previous SARS was not as virulent, there wasn't the same number of cases and deaths, therefore there was not the same pressure to continue with the trials and studies. It didn't have the same money thrown at it, at the time because it was simply no longer clinically necessary.

@Ylvamoon

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their minds if a vaccination certificate becomes essential for travel

Other countries haven't even approved any vacancies yet. By the time they do, we will have enough data to see that it's safe (or not).

Yes but it will most likely be the UK gov who put these restrictions in place.

I hope they do, if you don't want to be vaccinated against this fucking awful disease that had destroyed the world then you don't get to go and have nice trips abroad. I hope it becomes mandatory for going to restaurants etc too. People can face the consequences of their own stupidity.

@Cloudesley

I am certainly hesitant about the vaccine and I'm not an anti vaxxer- my DD Was given the MMR at the height of the "concerns" about that, which I was sure was just flaky nonsense. But I will hang fire about this one. The fact that it won't stop transmission confirms that decision for me.

By the time you might be offered it could well be a different vaccine or 2 vaccines given 8 weeks apart. The vaccine trial I've been involved with looks like it can eradicate the virus and prevent transmission.

It's amazing how many ppl suddenly know so much about medicine and science. I hope you research all medicine you take as closely.

I hope they do, if you don't want to be vaccinated against this fucking awful disease that had destroyed the world then you don't get to go and have nice trips abroad. I hope it becomes mandatory for going to restaurants etc too

I would be stunned if such a decision wasn’t subject to judicial review. There are very stringent laws about forcing medical treatments on people. Making travel contingent on particular treatments would fall foul of those laws, in my view.

And I get the logic; I understand that it upsets people that some people are going to refuse the vaccine. But ultimately they have every right to do that and shouldn’t be punished for it.

@flaviaritt

I hope they do, if you don't want to be vaccinated against this fucking awful disease that had destroyed the world then you don't get to go and have nice trips abroad. I hope it becomes mandatory for going to restaurants etc too

I would be stunned if such a decision wasn’t subject to judicial review. There are very stringent laws about forcing medical treatments on people. Making travel contingent on particular treatments would fall foul of those laws, in my view.

And I get the logic; I understand that it upsets people that some people are going to refuse the vaccine. But ultimately they have every right to do that and shouldn’t be punished for it.

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, if you don't want the vaccine that's fine, but you can't then go and mix in the nicieites being part of a society offers.

@hunnihun2 yes, it was through work. I'm a nurse.

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, if you don't want the vaccine that's fine, but you can't then go and mix in the nicieites being part of a society offers.

Fundamental freedoms aren’t niceties. This would fail at the judicial level because it is not ethical and there are existing statutes that would stand against it. That’s just my prediction. We will have to see.

Its on BBC1 now.

It’s not ethical to go and infect people either just because you don’t want a vaccine.

Ethics can work 2 ways.

And if l was a cafe/hospitality/holiday let owner. I would want proof of a vaccine.

It’s not ethical to go and infect people either just because you don’t want a vaccine.

There is already a law against doing so. If you have been exposed or are knowingly infected you have to isolate. Unvaccinated people and infected people are not the same thing.

Because otherwise (logically) none of us unvaccinated people should be going outside now. Have you been infecting people all this time? How many have you killed through your selfish decision-making?

But the unvaccinated have the potential to infect more than the vaccinated. And to choose that isn’t particularly ethical to my mind.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But you are the unvaccinated right now. I assume you are still going outside, going to shops and restaurants (when open) and taking with you your germs, including the virus if you have it. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong.

@flaviaritt

All this on talk of fundamental freedoms and human rights when talking about covid is ridiculous.

It’s not a fundamental freedom to go on holiday or eat in a restaurant. If I go to Africa I have to prove in most places I’ve had the yellow fever vaccine and insurance wouldn’t cover me if I chose not to have other vaccines.

Restaurants, pubs can already choose who they serve and as long as they aren’t doing it for a discriminatory reason that’s acceptable.

I’m not doing any of those things.

But the argument only applies when the vaccine is freely available. You can’t talk about what is happening now, as no one except a very few have the vaccine. The ethics only start to apply with widespread vaccination.

All this on talk of fundamental freedoms and human rights when talking about covid is ridiculous.

Not really. I don’t know why you imagine it changes our rights one iota. If Covid means we don’t have human rights, we never had them to start with. This is your fear talking.

@flaviaritt

I suspect the vaccine is fine and will probably get it. But it is totally legitimate to be concerned about it, and people are well within their rights not to get it.

I realise I am a bit late to this thread and I’m not picking on this post specifically but how is refusing a vaccine any different to refusing to stay at home, social distance or wear a mask. Having a vaccine isn’t just about your own personal safety, it’s also about protecting those who cannot have vaccines to for whom they don’t work. And before you say that a vaccine could be harmful but the other measures aren’t, tell that to those who have lost incomes, businesses, livelihood, mental health etc. due to lockdown

The Oxford vaccine trials have data on transmission prevention, even asymptomatic cases.
We need multiple vaccines.
Not enough vaccines worldwide just now for everyone. Need multiple vaccines. Oxford vaccine likely to be approved soon.
Vaccinating population is what’s important rather than individuals.
Healthcare workers and vulnerable people are being prioritised in UK.

I wonder what people who won’t take vaccine think about the following:
Do they think that healthcare/ social care workers potentially looking after them (or their vulnerable relatives) should have the vaccine? Should they also have a choice? Or should they be allowed to choose not be vaccinated and therefore be a potential risk to their patients?

I realise I am a bit late to this thread and I’m not picking on this post specifically but how is refusing a vaccine any different to refusing to stay at home, social distance or wear a mask. Having a vaccine isn’t just about your own personal safety, it’s also about protecting those who cannot have vaccines to for whom they don’t work. And before you say that a vaccine could be harmful but the other measures aren’t, tell that to those who have lost incomes, businesses, livelihood, mental health etc. due to lockdown‘

👍🏻

What about the unknowns of this vaccine?

It is unknown if it causes harm to a foetus therefore not advised for pregnant women. Or women wanting to become pregnant. It is not advised for breastfeeding women either.

And rather a big unknown is it is unknown whether it can cause infertility.

But go on. Rush off and get it.

But the argument only applies when the vaccine is freely available. You can’t talk about what is happening now, as no one except a very few have the vaccine. The ethics only start to apply with widespread vaccination.

Nonsense. The ethical situation is: is it wrong to put your own needs before those of others and exercise your freedom to go about your daily life with no reason to think you are infected, or should you take every possible precaution because, if you are infected, you could pass it on? And that applies right now. People going out unnecessarily are facing that exact ethical dilemma.

My opinion - which you don’t have to share - is that it is obviously wrong to knowingly spread a virus to others. But it is not wrong to prioritise your own long-term health and refuse a vaccine you are not confident about. We don’t owe others that risk to our own health, and they don’t have the right to punish us for not taking it.

‘My opinion - which you don’t have to share - is that it is obviously wrong to knowingly spread a virus to others. But it is not wrong to prioritise your own long-term health and refuse a vaccine you are not confident about. We don’t owe others that risk to our own health, and they don’t have the right to punish us for not taking it’

And by not having a vaccine you are knowingly choosing to spread the virus

how is refusing a vaccine any different to refusing to stay at home, social distance or wear a mask

Losing income or your mental health suffering are awful outcomes, I agree. And refusing to wear a mask is - in some respects - a similar thing to refusing the vaccine. But people who have a MH or physical reason not to wear the mask are exempt; they don’t have to put your health before their own. Forcing a person with (say) asthma into a mask to protect yourself would be unethical. And forcing a person to take a medical treatment would be unethical. These are long-understood principles of the use of state power.

And by not having a vaccine you are knowingly choosing to spread the virus

That simply isn’t true. If you don’t have symptoms you don’t know you have the virus, so how could you knowingly be spreading it? Talk sense.

Wonder how those Covid surgeons and nurses with asthma cope with wearing a mask all day long?🤔

Good job they manage eh?