To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

@speakout

Edinburgh most certainly isn't London, by a very long way.

THankfully.

This.

Given the choice between Edinburgh and London, I'd choose Edinburgh every time.

I would have moved to Scotland years ago but DH wouldn't due to climate. I did say it wasn't the difference between Iceland and Sicily, but he wasn't having it. Anyway, ds now has an offer from Glasgow uni, I hope he goes there and stays in Scotland especially if it becomes independent and rejoins the EU or at least EFTA.

I can't get past the bit about there not being good enough schools in Edinburgh. FWIW I know people who went to Portobello High who went to Oxbridge.

It's madness to uproot your life and change your lifestyle in the pursuit of oxbridge for a 4month baby!
She might not even want to go to university in 14 years time.

Agree with @cologne4711 (love that stuff, by the way, have a bottle on my desk as we speak )

Lived in Chelsea for yonks and would up sticks tomorrow for Edinburgh. The best city in the UK, hands down.

DH doesn't like the fact that very few some years nil students get into Oxbridge from these schools while schools like Royal Grammar School sends c20% to oxbridge each year

Scottish students tend to study in Scotland due to tuition fees, and if they do go to England, Durham is much closer than Oxford or Cambridge.

Yes RGS gets good results but the pressure on the pupils is immense. And you have to get a place there in the first place which isn't that easy.

Assuming your tiny baby is Oxbridge material is quite strange , what if he isn’t exceptionally clever? What if he is more interested in a non academic career, or something like art and design ?
Please don’t put this much pressure on a child, wait and see how that child is as a person. I have seen what happens to young people under huge pressure from their families to be academically successful, even when that pressure is unspoken.
Your baby is nowhere near even infant school age yet.

@praepondero

Agree with *@cologne4711* (love that stuff, by the way, have a bottle on my desk as we speak )

Lived in Chelsea for yonks and would up sticks tomorrow for Edinburgh. The best city in the UK, hands down.

The residents of Glasgow might disagree :)

I agree, there is nowhere in the UK as amazing as Edinburgh although I am a huge fan of Glasgow (and Liverpool) too.

@praepondero

Agree with *@cologne4711* (love that stuff, by the way, have a bottle on my desk as we speak )

Lived in Chelsea for yonks and would up sticks tomorrow for Edinburgh. The best city in the UK, hands down.

It always does well in Best City etc surveys. As for good schools, I’m not even going to dignify that comment of the OP’s with a response.

Everyone has all these romantic ideas about Edinburgh, based on snapshots of the amazing architecture of the New Town and/or Morningside/The Grange. When reality for most is a 10 year old "new build" in South Gyle or a cramped flat in Comely Bank with a massive mortgage or that bit to the side of Arthur's Seat the name of which I forget but you can still just about buy a decent sized period flat if you don't mind being near the delight that is the Meadowbank area.

So yes, I'd choose Surrey over Edinburgh. I don't know anyone who has regretted the move south or come back.

Alternatively, you live in a period flat or new build house in Musselburgh or Lasswade and face the horrendous commute in. It used to take me an hour and a half, door to door, by bus, to commute from Lasswade to Edinburgh city centre. The bus stopped at every single stop and got stuck at every single traffic light. 1 minutes walking either end. No trains - impossible to get through the massive traffic jam at Sheriffhall to the park and ride and no bridge or underpass to actually cross the bypass safely by bike or on foot.

In short, the infrastructure is horrendous. Every single person I know who has moved to London or nearby is much happier. The salaries are better, and there aren't so many homegrown neds throwing stones at the fire service (a big problem around Edinburgh). I can't believe you think Edinburgh's relatively meagre cultural offerings are preferable to the occasional trip into London!

And you have a long way to go to get to the scenery of the Highlands - the part of the country between Edinburgh and Glasgow -omg - my mum refers to it as No Man's Land. It is so blighted that you would have to have grown up there not to notice it.

I wouldn't necessarily go for Guildford. Friends who have moved to Bucks seem particularly happy. Dorking is also pretty nice.

State schools in Edinburgh can be pretty dire so a surprising number of people do end up paying for private education. But I know so many people who have been to Heriots or Watsons who have barely scraped any qualifications and the school hasn't done much for them. So I'd say some of the private schools aren't any better than an average state school elsewhere. Unless you go for more expensive options such as Fettes or Merchiston Castle. Even then...

I live in a commuter town, I can't wait to leave and move back 'up north'.

It's really hard moving away from family and friends.

Edinburgh is fantastic; Guildford is a hole. Moving costs money, stick with where you are!

Considering the massive issues we have here in commuter belts with county lines drugs, i'd stay put...

Scotland has the highest rate of DRDs in the whole of Europe so however massive your issues, they are not comparable.

OP this is all very weird. Are either of you Scottish and did either of you go to Oxbridge? You seem to have a very weird perception of both the reputation of Scottish education and the Oxbridge admissions system.
Planning to move jobs and countries during a pandemic for better schooling when your child is only 4 months old so it can get into Oxbridge is beyond bonkers. The only thing he should be thinking about is keeping your baby clean, warm, entertained and fed.

I am at a total loss as to how your husband could be supposedly well educated/from an academic background and think things like “students with Scottish qualifications will have problems studying abroad”.

Has he never heard of Tony Blair?

If it helps you at all, I went to Cambridge from a Scottish state school. My college had no problem whatsoever understanding my parochial qualifications! It was almost as if they had anticipated that they might get applications from Scotland and read up in advance...

I had 2 Scottish friends there, one who went to Loretto and the other to St George’s School for Girls. The St George’s one did A-levels there and I think that many Scottish private schools offer them (I had no idea until I met that friend).

I also live in Zone 3 London and can be in the heart of the City within 20 minutes by overground train. It is leafy and has quiet streets. You seem to have weird Dickensian ideas of London living too..

I’ve never been to Guildford. It sounds a bit overpriced and dull.

Edinburgh is it's own place. It has its own identity. Having lived there for a few years growing up and for six months as an adult, that identity is not entirely positive... it has an ever so slightly snobby and parochial vibe. However, it also has a lot going for it...culture, great quality of life, relatively affordable compared to London and home counties, beautiful countryside literally on your doorstep. In your position, there's no chance I would swap that for a bland London commuter town.

I know both places fairly well and I'd choose Edinburgh over Guildford any day.

Edinburgh all the way , beautiful city with the feel of a town

I gave up on Oxbridge when DS wasn't properly toilet trained at 5yo

It's not wrong to want the best for DC, but you can't actually force it to happen.

I think your DH is being ridiculous. Edinburgh is a great city, very cosmopolitan and there are lots of things to do and plenty of opportunities, educational and otherwise. Your child will grow up with broader horizons than those who live and work near London and (generally speaking) don't think the World beyond there is worth their attention.
As for the oxbridge obsession, if your child is good enough, they will get a place regardless of where they were educated. Edinburgh, and Scotland in general, offers so much. There is more to life than London and an oxbridge education, but I bet that's what your DH had.

Scottish students tend to study in Scotland due to tuition fees, and if they do go to England, Durham is much closer than Oxford or Cambridge.

Scottish students have always tended to study in Scotland because they are much less willing than the rest of the world to actually leave home and prefer to be insular. So many students don't even want to travel to another Scottish university because it means leaving home, and this has always traditionally been the case. I'm a university lecturer and all of us agree that its very, very difficult to get Scottish students to actually speak in tutorials or indeed any group setting. Its a very well known characteristic. But Newcastle rather than Durham would be a more obvious choice for less insular Scots students whose parents were paying.

praepondero No good schools in Edinburgh? Fettes is one of the top schools in the UK?! You also have Gordounston if offspring were more sporty than academic.

I hate to break it to you, but Gordonstoun is a boarding school some 170 miles from Edinburgh, in rural Aberdeenshire. Fettes has a high proportion of pupils from outwith Scotland.

@JenXG

YABU because you are not comparing like with like. You like cities so Edinburgh will always suit you better than a small commuter town. Edinburgh is lovely. But don’t turn your nose up at London. If you can afford it (I assume you can if you are looking at Guildford) some outer London boroughs are lovely, green, with brilliant schools and easy access to all the restaurants and culture you want.

Having said that, your op reads as someone who is happy where they are, so why move? I am sure Edinburgh can somehow cater to the needs of your 4 MONTH old genius

Guildford is a hole

Says someone who has clearly never been to any actual holes!!

Guildford is a perfectly pleasant town, but is hardly comparable to a much larger capital city like Edinburgh, with amazing history.

My Latin teacher (yes, we weirdly had Latin in a Scottish state school) told me she was really disappointed in me for applying to Cambridge when there were world class universities on my doorstep.

I have no idea about schools in the two locations, but moving because of senior schools when your baby is 4 months old is slightly insane.

Clearly he's mental.

Haven't read the thread.

I also think that it is one of the saddest things for all of the UK that everything is so London-centric, and if there's ANYTHING positive that we can take out of the pandemic, it's that we can spread everything out over the UK! To the many other smaller but utterly beautiful and magnificent cities!

OP, we lived the dream - a house in Hampstead, a kid in private pre-prep. The reality was the grind was intense, Hampstead was not very friendly as everyone too busy (although our street was absolutely delightful), the many baby groups etc no one really chatted to each other. I felt very, very, very uncomfortable with the enormity of the gap between the rich and the poor, and how this was reflected in education. The reality, as I was discussing with a friend yesterday who is still there, is that you need 20k+ per child, plus several grand bus fees plus a nanny just for education needs. So one of you needs to be earning 120k+ just for that. Then the other one has to earn a fortune to meet the large mortgage cost, the train passes for commuting (several grand). The metro-boulot-dodo is fucking relentless.

Also, your DH must bear in mind some of the stories that come out of the admittedly fantastic private schools and SE grammars that send 20% to Oxbridge. They aggressively self-select - good luck with watching your child go through selection procedures of the guildford equiv of Highgate at 2.5 years old, as very serious teachers grade their ability to stack several bricks on top of each other and then reject them anyway (400 applicants for 9 non-sibling places in our year). Good luck with the pressure for sitting the 7 plus at several different schools, good luck with hoping that you can get siblings into the same school or that your kids aren't managed out for not hitting the high notes at 12. Oh, and helping your teenager understand that not getting 11A* or whatever the equiv is does not mean they are a thick muppet who should immediately start self-harming, and getting them to understand that there is life outside the SE bubble.

There will be tons of parents saying 'oh, but it's wonderful, once you're in', but read the 7+, 11+ and 13+ threads in the education boards, that start off all chirpy and ambitious and end up thirty pages later with a mum having to tell her bright, sensitive, highly tutored 10 year old that despite having sat exams at five different schools, despite knowing how important they are and despite studying for it for years, they have not been given a place. The effect on that on your kid!

We pulled our kid out, moved to NI, are moving into a lovely big house for less money, and our kids will go to one of the many excellent state schools with a big social mix which will equip them far better for life. They have lovely fresh air, tons of sports, great community and amazing activities at a fraction of the cost.

Obviously no one ever moves to NI without a connection, but if I were you with great jobs in Edinburgh, a beautiful international city of a manageable size, with an education system that is incredibly well thought of, I would definitely NOT move. Half of mumsnet will be envying you right now! It's impossible to describe the daily commuting grind of London (which I LOVE as a city and where I lived for 17 years - at the end even my bus from Hampstead to the river was taking 90 minutes each way! Trains were always down!).

Also, doing several highers is great as it doesn't narrow down your opportunities! I had to get math tutoring sixteen years out of school to function at business school!