To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

You would be absolutely mad to leave Edinburgh, a world class city and one of the cultural capitals of the world, for a shitty, over populated commuter town in the SE imo.

This. No, your DS probably won't thank you for being brought up in Guildford rather than Edinburgh. There's no comparison that I can think of - yes to better and more accessible art, culture, music - the list goes on.

The thing about A levels being more widely recognised just isn't the slightest bit relevant. Far more so is the potential for free Uni tuition from Scotland, plus the catchment system differences. The English system is awful in that respect.

Your problem here just might be a DH with 'high hopes' for a 4-month old which include worrying about schools. If he really is focued on that, there is no doubt at all that his focus would be better put to saving for private.

Don't move. You've said yourself that you prefer a city bustle - what matters more than practically any of the issues above is a happy home, and I think you personally sound as if you'd regret it deeply.

Move into the best Edinburgh catchment you can afford.

I don’t know Guildford but I live in and love Edinburgh - the architecture, the castle, Arthur’s Seat, the Meadows, Leith, the museums and galleries, Portobello, Stockbridge, the Botanics, the art and festival scenes - plus access to the Highlands, endless coastline, skiing, surfing, all kinds of outdoor sports, and free university for your possibly-gifted child and any others that come along! Not to mention it’s probably cheaper to get a decent house up here than near London. I would never move to a town from here. It’d be either this or the middle of nowhere for me!

Not really sure your husband's academic credentials are all that if he believes that moving his brand new little family to a small commuter town is going to somehow launch your baby straight to Oxbridge in 18 years' time.

Put it this way- I went to school in Edinburgh (not Heriot's but one v like Heriot's) and I managed to get into St. Andrews and then Cambridge. As did a whole host of other kids in the city. But it's a great city for a whole host of more important and interesting reasons than that. Also, of the 1000s of kids who chose to attend other universities in Scotland or elsewhere, loads have still managed to do other amazing things, like be journalists or marine biologists or successful restaurant entrepreneurs. Edinburgh is a tremendously exciting and inspiring place to grow up and I'm bloody gutted I can't bring up my own children there.

I think the real conversation worth having here is what you believe it is most important for you in raising your tiny child. A set of academic results isn't everything. What kind of person would you like them to be? What would you like to show them in the world and what do you think it's important to teach them about? What if you move to Guildford and it turns out he/she isn't academic at all? What back up options would this place be able to offer them?

Congratulations on your new baby by the way!

I am a Londoner who lives in zone 3. DH and I also work in finance. Frankly this thread has made me consider Edinburgh;)

The only cons are the tiny liberal synagogue and the threat of independence. OP the SE commuter fares are not to be sniffed at. 8k per annum for you and DH together. I think £8k would probably be enough to hire more tutors so that your child is able to get into Oxbridge. Even in the SE and London, most kids who go to the top schools have tutors.

The one family I know who made loads of life changing plans around their son's private education and future Oxbridge education had a very troubled teen and now, eventually, have a happy 30 something parks gardener for a son. Do tread carefully.

I live near Guildford and have spent time in Edinburgh and the biggest thing missing from your OP is family - where are your friends and family - your roots?

Re Scottish kids not getting into Oxbridge etc, I think there’s some misunderstanding here. Any Scottish child wishing to study at a good English university needs to sit Scottish Advanced Highers in 6th year. - usually 3 AHs for law, medicine, vet medicine etc. Most good state schools offer this as par for the course and all independents too (who don’t do A levels instead) . Scottish Advanced Highers are actually regarded by unis as slightly higher in value than A levels and are pitched closer to undergraduate level year 1. So you’ll see that value weighting in offers received from Russell Group unis.
It’s also key to remember that many able Scottish students choose not to apply or even take up Oxbridge etc offers because they can get free tuition at excellent Scottish unis - top rankings for eg vet science up here - or because they want to study Scots and not English law etc. I know too that eg Heriot’s has classes on oxbridge entrance and arranges mock interviews etc. I can assure you that Scottish kids have a very high acceptance rate from top ranked English unis when they apply. They often don’t.

Your DH is bonkers

Personally I would choose London over Edinburgh, but Edinburgh over a Commuter town near London, but that’s because I like cities and the lifestyle they give you

I live near Guildford and know Edinburgh well. The two aren't really comparable - you won't have the same life in Guildford. If you like your life, I would stay. You can always move in time for secondary school, or DH might broaden his horizons in terms of other unis!

I think you'd regret what you'd be giving up, even if you won't have as many nights out with children

There's no way I would move from Edinburgh to a commuter town near London. But for full disclosure I live within what is technically classed as 'City of Edinburgh' (as in that's who I pay council tax to) but is really a village on the outskirts, really close to the border of a different local authority area).

So technically I guess I am in a commuter town, but I can cycle to the city centre in less than an hour, or the bus takes 30-40 minutes.

But I just love it here. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a trip to London. But if I have various things I want to do, I have to plan ahead based on location as if its so far apart. With Edi, pretty much everything is on your doorstep. Shops, museums, theatres, art galleries - all in one compact but very pretty package.

I have seen so many people on the r/Edinburgh reddit talk about moving back because they miss Edi, or the fact that they still miss it even though they moved to London /Austria/America etc years before. My own brother did that. Moved tu London for two years, moved back to Scotland (not Edi, think Highlands) for four, but eventually made his way back to Leith. I don't think he'll leave again.

I'm 100% with you on this.

But maybe you should suggest spending a week in Guilford, trying to access the kind of things you'd do as a family, and see what the reality is like with the travel involved. You might find you love it, or he might find he doesn't.

Plenty of Scottish students go to Oxbridge, but those tend to be the only unis they would be willing to leave Scotland for because of the fees.

Oxbridge admissions are increasingly based on context, i.e. the attainment of the applicant compared to the general attainment of the school. So no choice of school will guarantee a place. Those who go to schools which send more pupils to Oxbridge often have to demonstrate their enthusiasm over and above their exam results in order to stand out.

Most importantly, applying to Oxbridge has to be your child's own choice because it can be tough when you get there. He's only 4 months old! Choose where you will be happy and let him grow up feeling supported to do whatever he wants to do. Edinburgh is an amazing place to come from.

DH doesn't like the fact that very few some years nil students get into Oxbridge from these schools while schools like Royal Grammar School sends c20% to oxbridge each year

Your DH doesn't sound very knowledgeable about this. Scottish students are more likely to apply preferentially to Scottish universities instead. It's not about them not getting in

If he's going private then his ability to get in to Oxbridge will simply be as much down to his ability as it would be south of the border.

There is just no comparison in the quality of life you will all have in Edinburgh versus Surrey commuter belt!

Is your DH Scottish? The thing about Edinburgh private Schools (apart from Fettes and Loretto) is that they are not really modelled on the English Public School system and just don't have that Oxbridge tradition to any great extent, they were set up to educate local children and feed into local Universities.

I know a family who put a lot of pressure on their kids to get into Oxbridge. It was really unpleasant to witness.

I go against the majority here and personally prefer towns to cities.
However, if you have money for private education you have some advantages not afforded to the majority of Scots.

Yes staying in Edinburgh you get free university education but that’s if you can get a place, numbers are capped remember.

My dd was into a certain sport at secondary school and progression and rankings were dependent upon attending and doing well at certain competitions. As well as there not being many clubs in which to train, there were hardly any of these events in Scotland but loads down south. She would have had her pick of clubs in which to train too. I think there are more opportunities down south within travelling distance

Yes Edinburgh is a nice city but I find it difficult to get to, I only live an hour away, and expensive to get around as it’s very expensive to have a car.
I was a student in Edinburgh in the 1990s and enjoyed it but not so much now when I visit my dd who is studying there.

Your DH is clearly a bit of a dick.
Fettes has a high proportion of international students so there's a chance that some / all of them go "home" for university. As PP have said, Scottish universities are free for those living in Scotland and many have as good, if not better for some subjects, reputations than Oxbridge so it makes no sense for students to go there.

He's not a pushy parent from what i see by far...).

I would disagree if he's thinking like this with a 4 month old. He is in for a world of hurt if he piles huge expectations on any child.

But agree - I live in London but would definitely say stay in Edinburgh.

Don't move! Commuting into London is a pain - what may look like a 45 minute journey on paper is rarely that with train delays. And the trains are dirty, packed and eye wateringly expensive...

A friend is actually just moving from zone 4 in London to Edinburgh and I'd love to do the same!

Surely you need to visit the areas yourself before making such a big move?

I think that would be much more helpful than asking a bunch of strangers, many of whom wouldn't have lived in either or both places.

I know both very well . Yes the weather can be shit in Edinburgh but I would choose it over Guildford.

I think the real conversation worth having here is what you believe it is most important for you in raising your tiny child. A set of academic results isn't everything. What kind of person would you like them to be? What would you like to show them in the world and what do you think it's important to teach them about? What if you move to Guildford and it turns out he/she isn't academic at all? What back up options would this place be able to offer them?

This, this, this, this. You sort of make it sound like a little quirk of your DH that he thinks your four month old should go to Oxbridge because his family are academic, OP, but it isn't a little joke, he hasn't just bought one of those tacky 'future Cambridge student' baby grows they sell at Cambridge market or whatever - he wants to move the family to do this. I don't think this is harmless or silly, I actually think you need to have a really serious chat about letting DS be his own person or you're at serious risk of having a four year old who knows that Daddy is disappointed in them because they aren't in the highest reading band in their class.

I'd leave Edinburgh for London, but not a random commuter town outside of London. Guildford no way

Fettes offers GCSEs, A levels and IB, and is one of the top ten UK IB schools (if your DH is wedded to the idea of non-SQA exams).

There’s also nothing to stop you considering a boarding school at some point if your child wants somewhere with a track record of pushing kids into Oxbridge (Brighton College for example).

However, if your child decides that they want to do something like medicine, vet med or dentistry, then there’s probably not a huge advantage to going to Oxbridge anyway. The Scottish Universities are world class too (although I’d be wary of relying on free fees, who knows what the situation will be in 18 years time).

Or your DH might also want to consider that your child might also be perfectly happy being a plumber.

You have so many choices in Edinburgh, personally I think you’d be mad to move to a London commuter town.