To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

I'm in Edinburgh. I live in an affluent area with a mediocre high school, because of the sheer expanse of the catchment area. All 3 kids have gone private, which is often the norm. Edinburgh doesn't have the best state schools; I believe East Renfrewshire (near Glasgow) has those.
Middle child's high school offers the English curriculum and qualifications. Eldest's was more Scottish.
We used to live down South, near London, and the weather was beyond compare! I definitely miss that.

[quote hopingforonlychild]@JenXG i am confused by what you meanwhen you day Edinburgh private schools are more expensive when the London bog standard private schools are at least £20k when the likes of George Watson and George heriot are 13k. And fettes is the same cost as st Paul's.

I would also consider the Chinese population of the places you are suggesting. Some areas of the SE are less accepting of minorities than cities. It's 1 reason why I stayed in london- I also had private schools in mind but what was also important was the existence of at least a sizeable Chinese community in the area. I am in North london- east Finchley. School buses to Habs, St Pauls. Near to Hampstead and Highgate where hall school and Highgate are. Good state schools as a backup. The way I see it, London/SE house prices are so high that I might as well get a good catchment in the deal as insurance. Private schools are exam based anyway so as long as it's a reasonable distance, you don't need to live next to the school.

What would worry me about seven oaks is that the only game in town is the private school. In London you have more options.[/quote]
Sorry I haven't looked at the fees of London schools yet. When I wrote that I had the fees of RGS and Sevenoaks in mind. Both are cheaper than Fettes. I might be a bit distracted and misread the comment. If 20k yes more expensive than those in Edinburgh.

Thanks for the advice. I haven't thought about it much as our experience in Edinburgh has been generally good. Not experienced obvious descrimination yet. But yes should have thought about it if moving to a new place.

Yes I get what you mean by the insurance of a good state school. The main reason we are sticking with privates is the wide range of activities they provide (i've seen some did week long wildcamping , visit to other countries, all sorts of clubs, etc) and the smaller class size (not solely exam results otherwise we'd look at grammar as well). Would you mind shedding a bit light on what state schools in London are like in terms of non academic activities?

Will look at the area you mentioned as well. Thanks!

It depends on the school to what they have going on.

I went to a state school in London but we were highly rated and a city technology college at the time (I think it's now an academy but still not private).

My school did ski trips, trips to Sri Lanka, USA, Iceland, French and German exchanges. Extra circular activities they did drama, sports clubs, film club, art club, chess club, computer club, science club etc etc

It's not just private schools that offer opportunities.

@JenXG it depends on which state school but my perception is that on the whole state schools don't provide the same range of extra curricular activities as private schools as they can spend far less per pupil. Most middle class parents spend the money saved from fees on extra curricular activities.

Good grief Opinionatedfreak, it's not hard to find childcare for a state school - I drop mine at the breakfast club at 8 and collect up to 5.30, in a school you wouldn't touch with a barge pole but I think is great

@cologne4711

OP Winchester is nice and I definitely prefer it to Guildford, except that the shops are better in Guildford. Housing is expensive but less than Guildford, and you are closer to the sea if that's your thing, or you think it might become your thing.

You assume your husband will get leadership roles - he might not. Would you be happy to stay in Edinburgh if he stayed at his current level? You don't say if you are working and whether your career development also plays a role.

Hi we've considered Winchester but it's a bit farther away and i believe the Winchester school is a boarding school while we are looking at day school atm. But thanks for the suggestion.

No we can't stay in Edinburgh forever as aging parents will need us in maybe 20 years. When the time comes we'll have to move to closer to them. I can only hope DS will be independent by then so that he can choose wherever he wants to live. Otherwise he'll have to move with us again. It's very sad to think about this but this is our reality. Lots of people here mentioned culture, scenery, weather and so on. Those are really 1st world problems from my point of view.

If the world was perfect and life was ideal, i'd move to where my parents live now and raise my kid there. He'd have lots of love from grandparents and play with lovely cousins. He'd speak and write my language. He wouldn't have to lose one single friend like we did. But since life is not perfect, if we moved to my parents, he'd have to spend his entire early years doing exams and no one would show him how wonderful the rest of the world was. He'd get a job providing 500pm despite graduated from a top uni and worry about house prices comparable to London in his 20 and 30s. I didn't want to open a thread discussing socialism or international economics so didn't mention all those. It's really just a post asking people's opinions on commuter towns...

Hi Thanks. I've read all your replies and agree with your previous comments on parenting - too pushy is probably counterproductive. We are not saying that he has to make to Oxbridge. We just want to get him into a good school which maximise the chance IF academic is what he wants. He can leave and transfer to a comp school or music school if he likes. But i'd imagine it's easier to transfer out from an academic school to a less academic one than the other way round. The admission to nursery / reception is easier compared to admission exams half way. So why not start with an academic one and see?

I've subcribed to GSG. They've got lots of useful information (although some is not accurate based on the review on George Heriot). Yes if it wasn't the pandemic we would have gone to the towns to take a look ourselves. There's still a bit time so we'll definitely look in person early next year. I've actually got lots of useful information from mumsnet'ers including yourself. So thank you.

@Scottishskifun

It depends on the school to what they have going on.

I went to a state school in London but we were highly rated and a city technology college at the time (I think it's now an academy but still not private).

My school did ski trips, trips to Sri Lanka, USA, Iceland, French and German exchanges. Extra circular activities they did drama, sports clubs, film club, art club, chess club, computer club, science club etc etc

It's not just private schools that offer opportunities.

Hi thank you for the info. It looks we'll need to expand the search to include state schools as if it's not complicated enough! Lol

@JenXG he could speak and write your language without being in China. You need to find a place with good Chinese classes! A lot of people from my home country send their kids to weekly Chinese classes as they plan to return eventually to care for aging parents and in Singapore, mandarin chinese is mandatory and 25% of the primary school curriculum.

I understand the point about aging parents, yes, my parents are now caring for my grandma who has always lived with us. They have hired a maid but it would not be possible for her to live alone, there aren't really care homes in the same way there are in the west. (Or at least the care homes are really dire).

Also if you are worried about having to go back to your home country midway through your DS' education, pick an IB school. Not sure where your parents live but hopefully it's a big city with an international school. Many of my friends growing up went to international school in various Asian countries including China for 2 years and seemed none the worse for it. The international school would also offer the IB so at least it wouldn't be a huge educational shock.

Caring for aging parents isn't a long term thing (not to be indelicate) and if your ds went to international school, he can go to uni in the west or back to school in the west.

Jen you’re really inconsistent
Posters mention
Sevenoaks
Tonbridge
Winchester
You’re all over it. Each location the must look at venue

You want A superlative private school as only private will do.

Until, it’s pointed out state schools also do activities and pupils flourish and off you go to select a superlative state school

Yes if it wasn't the pandemic we would have gone to the towns to take a look ourselves. There's still a bit time so we'll definitely look in person early next year.

Your son is 4 months and you say 'there is still time'.
What's the rush?
He's not going to be in full time education for another 4 years.

@hopingforonlychild thanks for those info and the empathy!

We are thinking about IB and that's where the Sevenoaks came from. China has both IB and A level schools (haven't seen Scottish ones). But I believe there are more IB ones. I guess cutural shock is inevitable unless we can move back when he's really young. The more I think about it the more I feel London is probably better in terms of reducing the impact on DS. Imagine growing up in a small English town and suddenly move to Shanghai when you are 14. Feel a total failure as a parent...

Congratulations on your beautiful new baby, he’s is only 4 months old
Ease up on pressure,plans and targets. Relax,cuddle your son,have a bit of down time

I am from Edinburgh but have spent 35 years not far from Guildford.

As the years go by, I am so homesick for Edinburgh.

@JenXG Shanghai is and will always be Paris of the East. Its definitely closer to London than Edinburgh or a small English town. Which is probably why recent Chinese migrants overwhelmingly live in London.

Of course money can buy some results. At Oxbridge there are privileged/lucky and incompetent kids (think Tory MPs), privileged and bright kids, and less privileged but academic kids.

I'm not sure how aware you are about the high % of Chinese pupils in most of the private schools in Edinburgh. My main experience is of Merchiston, they even have a Far East base and the head goes out to China regularly on recruitment drives. So I can't see how ethnicity would be a problem in Edinburgh's private education sector.

have just read the bit where people are saying Scottish student's aren't interested in going to uni in other countries. That's just not true. neither is your DH's assertion that nil students have gone on to Oxbridge. The latest figures I could find for Loretto was that 12 students went to Oxbridge, others to UCLA and some went to Princeton and Harvard. A friends son from a local school just started at Cambridge this term. As a Scot I would refute the idea that we are not cosmopolitan in our out look. Why do you think so much of the world is populated by peoples with Scottish ancestry. I for one, although Scottish, my fathers parents both lived and worked in China before meeting and married in Shanghai. My mother's father went to Montana for many years to ranch to save up enough money to come back to farm in Scotland. My nephew went to Australia to Uni from a local school in the borders and my step daughter studied in France.

A school which a boarding option might be better OP incase your son at 14 or so doesn’t want to move to China. International schools aren’t generally known for being academic.

Continuity in any education is important.

It could also allow you to be more flexible eg. If you or your DH needs to abroad suddenly the school can generally accommodate that.

@myla1

Hi OP. Obviously, Scotland is highly likely to go independent in the near future (and who can blame them, frankly), so the key decision here surely, is what country do you want to live in? I wouldn’t be stressing to much about schools with a 4-month old.

Having said this, I would move south like a shot - solely on the basis of warmer weather / more sunshine hours. That alone brings a different quality of life. Edinburgh is very austere, I find.

Guildford is Guildford. It’s a nice town yes, But quite a suburban feel. And, schools-wise (for a boy), you would be looking at the Royal Grammar which is fine but, I fear, not aspirational enough for your DH.

If you really want to throw your hat into a tiger-parent-extraordinaire scenario, then please do join us here in SW London. But you will need to get him enrolled NOW into “the right” prep. Otherwise, how will he get into St Paul’s He will be doomed!

I’m joking, it’s not really that bad (sometimes). But if you want access to the most selective independents, why are you thinking suburbia? Could I suggest Richmond, Barnes, Putney and thereabouts? Or Ealing, Parson’s Green, Fulham etc. Everything on your doorstep. Greenery and parks and the Thames is beautiful here. Some people move to Surrey and generally, they regret it or they just get too bored and come back. Both my neighbours did this and quite a few people I know actually.

Aspirational schools for the DH include - Kings Wimbledon, St Paul’s, Latymer Upper, Westminster, Hampton (super-selectives).

There are other schools which take the 98% that don’t get into the above. But do please bear in mind that even an “average” school will make somewhere like Fettes look like a holiday camp. Be prepared to bring your DS to an entrance exam and queue with 1,400 kids for 140 places in the school. Oh, and he will probably need to sit 5 separate 11 plus exams to get a place somewhere. And maybe sit 7+ or 8+ as well as 11plus.

Still keen.. ?

No really - why Guildford particularly?

That is so funny, my DD was on a private nursery list that everyone wanted to go to because St Pauls was one of the feeder schools, we left London before she started nursery but St Pauls was the main school they fed in to. It is an amazing school and I would have loved my kids to stay there.

@GreenlandTheMovie I agree with all this. Living in Edinburgh would only be great if you're very well off (which I guess isn't an issue for the OP if she's talking about private schools).
I do really like Edinburgh, it's beautiful but it didn't feel like a real city that real people lived in - more like a tourist destination and somewhere to hold festivals, and somewhere for students to go to uni, then move on.
I never really felt at home there, although I did have some good nights out.
The traffic is horrendous and it takes forever to get anywhere. Outside of the city centre and the posh bits there are many run down areas and it's still really expensive to rent/buy even there.
As an average earner my quality of life was really not great and it only improved when I moved, to a cheaper area.
I still like to visit the city but wouldn't live there again unless I had a high paying job.

It used to be more like a real city 35 years ago when I started at uni there, proper neighbourhood shops and pubs lots of interesting specialist shops, old fashioned local swimming pools and cinemas. It had good cultural venues too obviously but it was far less touristy and more ordinary in a good way, more Scottish too. I miss it, especially the Italian bakeries which seem to be no more. Mind you I feel the same about London where I lived next, i guess I'm just old!

By the way my reference to more Scottish was referring to cultural things not ethnic mix of the population.

I really feel sorry for your son.

It sounds as though you view him as a commodity OP.

@Nellee thankfully the AIBU wasn't about whether she should relocate back to China to care for her aged parents when she has a child in the UK. I can guess most of Mumsnet responses- the mum is evil to even suggest her daughter and granddaughter move countries, I do not expect my children to care for me, I am going into a care home. And the OP has been raised outside the UK with different cultural expectations and this also applies to education.

Mumsnet is a UK forum and most of the posters are women born and bred in the UK, not ladies like me and OP who came over in our late teens and 20s and we would probably always have slightly different expectations. Which is probably why I never moved outside London, as I find London with its vibrant immigrant communities comforting. There are so many different cultural perspectives with regards to childraising that no one dominant view persists. Indeed there isn't a right way, it all depends on context.

Actually OP, I think that from this thread, you should stick to multicultural cities whether it's London or Edinburgh as both fit the bill.