AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

@june2007

Accidently on purpose are you saying gay domestic violence is as unlikely as human combustion?

And if you think women had a trouble getting refuges imagine how hard it would be for men. Especially with the attitudes displayed on here.

If men want their own shelters then they need to fight, campaign, fundraise, volunteer and lobby for them. Then they need to keep this up so they can keep running.

You know, like women do for women's shelters.

Women's shelters didn't just fall out of the sky. It's taken decades of hard work from countless people to get the few open that remain open.

But men don't want to do the hard work, they (and others) just seem to want to go "mine, in the name of fairness!" From women.

@june2007

Accidently on purpose are you saying gay domestic violence is as unlikely as human combustion?

And if you think women had a trouble getting refuges imagine how hard it would be for men. Especially with the attitudes displayed on here.

1. The first refuge came to be in 1971. Tell me about all those lesbian couples back then. Especially so many that need mentioning alongside men to have a women's refuge.

1. It was hard for women because they had no right,no power and no money. Marital rape was legal until the '90s. I won't even go into voting rights,working rights,the right to own property, inherit etc. Guess who did have (and still do) all the rights ,money and power? Especially when it comes to legislation,funding etc. Men. It would've been much easier for them to do it then. It's still as easy for them to do it now. For some reason it's not happening.

1. When women had a significant problem they went and fixed it. Why can't men do that? Why do we have to?

I also want to say that....if you come on a thread like this, read all about the shocking stories of violence against women (I mean come on, 1 in 5 are sexually assaulted in the U.K. - that's nothing short of a pandemic, but apparently not a pandemic anyone cares about enough, I mean those rates are higher than COVID), raped, abused, victims of emotional and physical violence, victims of sexual harassment...and the thing you're most upset about is that people correctly name the problem as men - it tells me exactly the kind of person you are.

But men don't want to do the hard work, they (and others) just seem to want to go "mine, in the name of fairness!" From women.

Not just that , but a certain branch of men want access to those shelters,refuges and rape centres or actively trying to get them shut down.

Nah, mate. If men want shit, then they have to work for it like we did/do. It's a harsh truth for many I'm sure, but having a penis doesn't give you the right to anything. Put the work in men , if the cause is so worth it!

I've posted a new thread about it but there is currently a government consultation on their policies relating to violence against women and girls. There is a survey here:

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence

The consultation ends on 15th December.

Poor men. Those nasty women didnt set them up their own shelters.
The 'attitudes' you're seeing here are directly related to the poor treatment we've been subjected to.
I didn't come out of the womb being fearful and contemptuous towards men as a class.
My personal experiences and what I see around me on a daily basis have taught me to be that way.
If men want to be spoken about and thought of as better, why dont they do better?

Yes Accidentally there's definitely a special type of bell end man who thinks "if we can't have it (even if we don't want it) then they can't have it either". I've read about men infiltrating breastfeeding groups rather than setting up their own dad's groups. The scariest thing is, behind every misogynist, there's a trail of rather dim women queueing up behind him to cheer him on

I agree with you OP. The problem is the patriarchal society where men are excused everything and prioritised constantly. The patriarchy also fails men, so they not only think they are more important but also are told being sensitive, emotional and open is wrong. So instead of dealing with emotional issues men can turn to violence instead, whether that's to each other, to women or against themselves.

My Dad, my brother and my male friends are or were kind good people. But men as a group are entitled and it's exhausting.

The abuse of men obviously does exist but that isn't what the op started her post about. As a woman I have never looked over my shoulder to check for any women behind me, if I hear a noise in the night I don't worry that a woman might be in my home and of the countless times I've been harassed or afraid for my safety not once has it been a woman's behaviour that caused it. This is the lived experience of many women. Incidentally, the men I know who have suffered any violence or intimidation... It was at the hands of other men.

I say all this as someone with a lovely gentle partner, a great relationship with my dad and several close male friends so I don't hate men by any means or think it's all men.

I totally agree OP.
I'm currently doing the freedom programme after years of abuse and coercive control by my now ex-husband. One of the exercises was to listen to statements and decide whether they were from rapists or "lads mags". There was very little difference in the disgusting attitudes to women.

I've discussed a lot of the programme with my 21 year old DD who has already experienced an abusive relationship. Of her group of five close friends four have experienced sexual assault or rape. That shocked me to the core and makes me fear for my younger daughters.

Now that I have finally cut my ex out of my life I am certain I will remain single permanently. Reflecting on my life my experience of men has been of bullying, humiliation and abuse. I will never risk that again.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@Wheresmykimchi I actually really appreciate that. It seems like you are at least willing to listen now, I think that's a good thing even if you don't change your mind/stance.[/quote]
I always was , I just got really defensive when I felt mocked or that people thought I was being goady. I have changed in terms of my view of the situation even from reading your recent posts so thank you.

@ScienceSensibility

Thats really strange because the main poster I clashed with said they appreciated my response after I really paid attention to their story.

I called one poster w bully and I stand by that

I didn't want the attention of being singled out and jumped on, nor am I self satisfied whatever that means.

Youl forgive me if I don't leave the thread based on one random clown on the internet telling me I can't have an opinion .

Wrong thread!

Lonsided wombat why do you not worry that a women may break into your home? (It was at least 1 female that ransacked my housemates room.)

@june2007 probably because the vast majority of robberies (84-97%) are committed by men www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/overviewofrobberyandtheftfromtheperson/2017-07-20#what-are-the-long-term-trends

Why oh why must some people do the whole obtuse "women are as bad as men" thing? The facts state otherwise, so really it's just your agenda/anecdata and really why should we listen to people who can't back their theories up with anything whatsoever?

I am someone who grew up watching my father hitting my mother. We had to call the police to the house. She had black eyes quite a bit. That she had to explain away. . But yeah, NAMALT. Unfortunately enough men are like that to make women wary, and rightly so. It's self preservation. Because we need to. Because so many men feel 'entitled' to treat women as they choose.

@june2007 what @GlummyMcGlummerson said but also it's not the ransacking while out that I'm talking about but the things that go bump in the night and subsequent worst case scenarios that flit through your mind while you're alone and its dark, you know?

It's hard not to agree with all of this 100% as it's basically true, but here's the but.

We are saying that violence should be removed? So surely that starts at the top with the big stuff? Stop all wars, stop our army taking part in other peoples wars? Adopt a pacifist stance and demand it from our government?

Is it ok to say that he shouldn't pinch my bum, but it's ok for him to fly halfway round the world to shoot dead some stranger? These are not separate issues, violence is violence.

@oldshoeuk I am against violence unless it is absolutely necessary. For example, in self-defence. I also can't help but think that these things are separate issues. Someone flying halfway round the world to take part in a war might (rightly or wrongly) feel like they are fighting for a cause, to protect their country, their freedom or to follow in the footsteps of their family or whatever their reason for signing up might be. There is significant risk to their own life and well-being also and plenty end up traumatised. I just cannot equate that with someone who sexually assaults a random jogger in a park.

Maybe if men didn't start wars they wouldn't have to fly around the world.

I have a good DP; but if something happened and I were single again, I think I’d just remain so. There are just too many arrogant, bullshitting, creepy men around and I can’t be bothered.

@Wheresmykimchi

Interesting that no PP has addressed my point about th comedy of female on male violence. Funny that.

Female violence against men is encouraged. It's an easy laugh on a sitcom. It's part of society.

Male on female violence is abhorrent but culturally is at least treated as such, even though there's still far too much of it behind closed doors.

You can spot the men (and women) who actually care about male suicide, male victims of domestic violence, male victims of murder etc because they are actually Doing Something About It. I know some men wh were personally affected by the suicide of a friend, they have done sponsered runs for mens mental health charities etc. Its a very worthy cause.
Then there are people who dont actually do or say anything about the isues affecting men UNTIL women start discussing problems they have faced - thats when it suddenly becomes important to derail the conversation by talking about the menz.
And thats before ypou consider that a lot of the problems that men genuinely do face have the same route cause - call it toxic masculinity if you will. But interrupting every conversation where women talk about harrasmant, sexual assault and murder to bleat "men get murdered more" doesnt actually help the men getting murdered (mostly by other men).

And I'll guarantee you now theres no men handwringing on our behalf on mens forums

Damn right there won't be.

And don't forget either that "rape" was originally criminalised NOT because it was an horrific offence against women, but because it was damaging to the PROPERTY of men. It de-valued their wife/daughter/sister; it may leave them with another man's child that they would bring up thinking it was their own; it might mean that they couldn't marry off a daughter or sister profitably.

There is still a societal undercurrent that women are "less than".