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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

999 replies

PurpleFeather · 08/12/2020 21:54

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

OP posts:
BigBaublesGalore · 10/12/2020 00:02

@madcatladyforever

I'm done with men after a lifetime of this crap. So much so I've just adopted a cat that can only be rehomed with a single woman as he has a pathological hatred of men.
Smart cat
FoxyTheFox · 10/12/2020 00:07

Men kill and abuse more men than they do women on a daily basis

So you agree that men, as a sex, are problematic?

exPR · 10/12/2020 00:12

@Coseynightin

Men kill and abuse more men than they do women on a daily basis.

Are you scared of getting into a car? I think the hyperbole in this thread is dangerous.

So accounts of real, lived experiences are hyperbole are they?

Do you know what hyperbole means?

And because men kill and abuse more men every day than women, we should what? Shut up and be grateful?

It’s almost as if addressing toxic masculinity and the destructive nature of patriarchy would benefit women AND men...that can’t be right. This must be my lady brain getting hyperbolic!

And yes, as a lone woman, I am often scared of getting into cars due to creepy taxi drivers, road rage and the general entitlement of predominantly male drivers who use cars as weapons to take their rage at their own inadequacies out on others.

How’s that for hyperbole?

AwFeebs · 10/12/2020 00:15

Totally agree. Male violence be it on a woman or another male is rife.

Something needs to happen.

I used to work in retail and we used to have one customer come in and make lewd comments/jokes in the name of "banter"

He leant over the till one day and grabbed a hair that had fallen around my name badge. Name badge placement is obviously near your breasts, made me feel queasy.

Nellieee · 10/12/2020 00:17

@exPR

I wonder what would happen if I made a similar post attacking women? No doubt I'd be labelled a misogynist. It's fine to attack men though

Depending on where you posted it, you’d probably get a lot of positive feedback. Including from some users of this site. That’s the reality, not some half assed ‘gotcha’ to get us all to agree we are man hating harpies and sowwy for upsetting the menz.

It IS fine to attack men who abuse, belittle and disrespect women and to challenge the ‘good men’ and women who’d rather have an easy life under the paternal gaze of misogyny than do something about it.

This. Well said.
Furries · 10/12/2020 00:54

I am posting without RTFT, but about to go to bed so apologies.

I have been mainly “lucky” up to now. Two horrible situations as a teenager over 30 years ago which I’ve worked through. Some work colleagues being “harmlessly” dickish, but have closed them down with retorts that actually made them stop and think (without getting me fired).

This will probably come across as goady, but I really don’t mean it to be. It must come down to nature, nurture, peer pressure or media (in any of its many forms). I would honestly hope that mums of today’s era are raising their sons better - but I see SO many posts on here of wives despairing at their husbands who, at the end of the day, were raised by women.

Media didn’t exist so much a generation ago, so that’s no excuse really (apart from increasing things nowadays).

So is it mainly down to nature? My head always gets scrambled with this debate.

Furries · 10/12/2020 01:00

@Tomorrowistomorrow

I agree with you totally OP. Fortunately my line of work any sexism that is overt is dealt with quickly. But my DD has to fight x2 as hard and be twice as smart to get the same job as her brother.

I had a violent ex -even in court recently I was asked by a trained professional solicitor / barrister "why do you think he does this?" "why does he behave this way" "what do you think it is about what you do that causes this" about my ex -I responded I have spent 6 years victim blaming myself and wondering "why? What do I do? How am I causing him to behave like this" etc how about you ask him? and ask him why he beat his ex wife up? Why he harasses her? Why why why and not me the victim who has been proved in court to actually be blameless - actually been shown that I do not provoke him -or are you suggesting that me the victim is to blame for his actions-at least SHE looked mortified and back tracked and say she was thinking out aloud and was actually wondering if I knew of a formal diagnosis -I said diagnosis of mental problems or not -I have to dealt with his emotional and verbal abuse. How is that me being kept safe? Why don't you ask him? But still in 2020 you are attacked and somehow it is your fault as the victim. Constantly the court / solicitor etc find excuses for him -he is struggling with lack of contact? He is struggling with x,y,z -ok then but that doesn't excuse why he is verbally abusing me does it?

No words really. That is shit, totally shit, and you have summed it up perfectly. I hope you’re doing ok.
TheDogisBarkingAgain · 10/12/2020 03:32

Most men and some women always shout womens experiences down with not all men are like that. However when I've asked them certain questions or listen to the way they talk you can see they don't believe it.

My daughter can't date boys, can't be friends with boys, no boys in their bedroom.
My wife/daughter can't go here, can't dress like that, can't have male friends, can't get drunk if malenfriends or colleagues will be there.
If they, their wife, their mother, their sister, their daughter was broken down on a country road at midnight, lost etc they would want a woman to help not a man.
My wife/daughter can't see a male doctor or gynaecologist.

And on and on.

One man I am related to insisted barely any men were pedophiles. Like maybe 1000 men in the whole world and they were sick and could have therapy to cure it and women were 'mental' to not let their kids play out, have sleepovers with men they didn't know in the house etc, women were also 'mental' to be scared of being raped, assaulted etc because again only a few men are 'a bit of an arsehole'. When outside of that type of conversation he was asked if his daughter (who was 4 or 5) ran away who did he hope would find her a man or a woman said a woman. Why? 'I'm not going to trust a weird bloke around my daughter'.

User158340 · 10/12/2020 06:28

An awful lot of misandry on here. I guess that is okay but misogyny is wrong in the minds of many.

MsTSwift · 10/12/2020 06:38

Misandry?! Too funny. Have you even read the thread? This isn’t abstract discrimination against a group but sadly a response to years and years of lived experience by many women. Men did this.

MsTSwift · 10/12/2020 06:42

It’s a backlash - no one gives up power easily read your history books. When women were first allowed into Cambridge the male undergraduates rioted. When my great grandmother graduated she wasn’t given a degree but a “permit to teach” because she was a woman although she had some of highest marks in her year.

Insertfunnyname · 10/12/2020 06:47

Not all men are predators but all women are prey.

User158340 · 10/12/2020 06:51

@MsTSwift

Misandry?! Too funny. Have you even read the thread? This isn’t abstract discrimination against a group but sadly a response to years and years of lived experience by many women. Men did this.
Misandry literally means hatred or contempt shown towards men. This thread is certainly full of misandry.

I'm not saying that's wrong, just that the very same comments complain about misogyny.

MsTSwift · 10/12/2020 06:55

Sadly as a woman I have experienced numerous ugly incidents of hatred and contempt from men towards me whilst just going about my business over the years. Am I not allowed to have a view on or draw any conclusions from my lived experiences?

Coseynightin · 10/12/2020 06:57

The hyperbole is coming from how bad it is to be a women these days saying it feels unsafe to be a woman in this day and age when in actual fact the stats and the rights would have it that this is probably the best time to be alive as a woman. We have more rights freedom choices than ever before.

There will always be a power imbalance as men are unfortunately physically the stronger sex. Nature made it that way.

Unfortunately every action has a reaction as well. If a women is too intoxicated she will be taken advantage of by SOME people so what is the safest thing we can do is not get so drunk as to not know what we are doing. This is not victim blaming it is common sense. Men also get attacked when drunk

whiterabbitsweets · 10/12/2020 07:19

@exPR

I wonder what would happen if I made a similar post attacking women? No doubt I'd be labelled a misogynist. It's fine to attack men though

Depending on where you posted it, you’d probably get a lot of positive feedback. Including from some users of this site. That’s the reality, not some half assed ‘gotcha’ to get us all to agree we are man hating harpies and sowwy for upsetting the menz.

It IS fine to attack men who abuse, belittle and disrespect women and to challenge the ‘good men’ and women who’d rather have an easy life under the paternal gaze of misogyny than do something about it.

I've been reading this thread and have no problems with it at all. Ultimately I have to hold my hand up and accept that, in the main, men are fucking shit and I know too many.

As an aside, I'm so proud of my 16 year old. She used to mock me (jokingly) when I'd discuss Guardian articles as there were so many, "let me guess, you read it in the guardian" she'd say, rolling her eyes. Over the years she's worked it all out for herself and now I learn so much from her. We now have discussions about her views on life/men. It's been amazing to see the woman she's going to become. Strong, independent and incredibly switched on but also positive and hopeful. I hope that she never gets beaten down.

If I had boys I'd have done exactly the same. Trouble is I have a friend who praises her son's conquests while wrapping her daughter up in cotton wool, as she knows what men are like. What the hell do you do about that??

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 10/12/2020 07:19

If a women is too intoxicated she will be taken advantage of by SOME people

You mean raped?

FoxyTheFox · 10/12/2020 07:52

I would honestly hope that mums of today’s era are raising their sons better - but I see SO many posts on here of wives despairing at their husbands who, at the end of the day, were raised by women

Do none of these children have fathers? Did none of the current adult men have fathers? Women aren't raising children alone in a vacuum, a man is needed somewhere along the line and those men are responsible for providing role models to their sons, even the ones who fuck off, have no contact, and don't pay maintenance are teaching a lesson to their sons so maybe it is men - not women - who need to think about raising their sons better and setting a better example for their sons.

Saying it is down to the women who raised these men is saying that women are responsible for the failings of men.

FoxyTheFox · 10/12/2020 07:55

If a women is too intoxicated she will be taken advantage of by SOME people so what is the safest thing we can do is not get so drunk as to not know what we are doing. This is not victim blaming it is common sense. Men also get attacked when drunk

That is victim blaming.

I should be able to go wherever I am legally allowed to be and carry out whatever actions I am legally allowed to carry out - including drinking to excess - without threat of harm from another person. In both the scenarios you describe, it is overwhelmingly men who choose to take advantage of the vulnerability of others, they are to blame.

nmin · 10/12/2020 07:58

Couldn't agree with you more OP.

Russellbrandshair · 10/12/2020 08:34

Unfortunately every action has a reaction as well. If a women is too intoxicated she will be taken advantage of by SOME people so what is the safest thing we can do is not get so drunk as to not know what we are doing. This is not victim blaming it is common sense. Men also get attacked when drunk

What I’m getting from this statement is: we should teach women not to get drunk. Not that we should teach men not to rape. Do you not realise the disturbing undertones of what you are suggesting?

Do we teach people not to drive their cars after 11pm in case they get hit and killed by a drunken driver just leaving the pub? Maybe the adverts warning against drunk driving should focus on the victims instead and we should tell them not to be on the roads as it’s their fault they put themselves at risk.

Or, do we teach people that they should just not buy nice expensive things if they want to avoid being robbed? After all- according to you it’s always the victim who needs to adjust their behaviour isn’t it? It’s never the perpetrator apparently- they can just carry on in their merry way whilst we all have to just deal with their harmful actions!

It’s unbelievably depressing reading this thread.

Pegase · 10/12/2020 08:39

Great thread OP. Sadly for me I don't think I've known a properly decent man my whole life starting from my poor excuse for a father and continuing on from there.

Even the ones who seem nice initially invariably have a darker side in one way or another once I get to know more about them.

The question is what can/will be done. Not that women have to solve men's problems obviously. More - is there any hope of an improvement or not?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 10/12/2020 09:22

How many men do you think are sex offenders?

A lot more than you will ever imagine.

Almost every woman and girl has had an experience of being intimidated, abused, insulted or assaulted often more than once - and I don't believe it's the same half dozen men shooting from one end of the country to the other over many decades committing these vile acts.

And there are many other men who would be offenders if they thought they would get away with it.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 10/12/2020 09:29

@ScienceSensibility

User, don’t get me started on that 50 Shades abomination. I will never understand how abuse can be a turn on.
I have a feeling that it is only a turn on for women who have, at a very young age, been sexually abused and have experienced a pleasurable physical reaction which has confused and shamed them, which they have mentally sublimated, but which, in their subconscious, remains forever associated with being forced to do something they didn't want to. Because it is so primal and is unacknowledged, it colours sexua response.

I have to admit - I'm not a psychologist and have no expertise in this area whatsoever, so this could be completely off the wall - but I can't think of any other possible reason that anyone - woman or man for that matter, would find being tortured and abased a turn on.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 10/12/2020 09:36

If a women is too intoxicated she will be taken advantage of by SOME people

You mean some MEN would take the opportunity to rape her?