AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

Not all men, but definitely too many of them.

The only ones who can fix that. Weirdly enough, despite the high and dangerous effects of toxic masculinity,not a lot of them are very inclined to do anything about it.

YANBU

I only hire women for 2 reasons. Firstly where I live, Switzerland, is the most sexist, misogynistic place I've ever come across and many of the SAHM are financially at risk due to the laws protecting the husband's earnings and pensions. I hire women who are doing their jobs part time because they are doing the lion share of the unpaid care (surprise surprise). In Switzerland kiddies come home from school at lunchtime every day because it is assumed Mum will be at home to feed them.

I only ever hire freelance or by project so these women have a lot of flexibility in working with me and I will never, ever bitch about a sick kid taking priority for them.

Secondly, I don't want to work with men ever again if I can avoid it. I spent a long time in a toxic corporate environment surrounded by "lads"

Secondly, I don't want to work with men. I spent long enough in corporate patriarcy hell.

If I manage to stand my ground happily in a male environment, I am hardly likely to be intimidated by a random on an anonymous forum.

Oh yes? When you stand your ground in this male environment, do you rock the boat? Stand up for other women? Speak up about sexism when you see it?

Or do you pander to the male ego, shriek ‘NAMALT’ at every opportunity and refuse to speak up about male bad behaviour? Like you have on here? Because that’s not ‘standing your ground in a male environment‘. That’s being submissive. And if that’s what you want to be, then fair enough, but don’t pretend you’re groundbreaking.

I’ll never forget a lovely senior colleague and I going into a meeting with all the senior partners (all men) and her whispering “don’t feel you have to back me up here”. She let them have it both barrels about their sexism. Then she resigned on the spot. Even better she had a job with their main client so they then had to suck up to her to keep their work. Admirable woman.

I feel so disheartened today, my shy DD16 visited a gym for the first time with her friend, they were so excited. She is so motivated to improve her health and fitness and adopt a healthy lifestyle.

Rude and obnoxious 50 something year old male working there intimidated them and threw his weight around making them feel stupid and insecure. He then proceeded to openly leer at them, until they felt a uncomfortable they left.

At the time there were 50 odd lawyers in the department over half were women. 12 partners. All partners were men.

Or do you pander to the male ego, shriek ‘NAMALT’ at every opportunity and refuse to speak up about male bad behaviour? Like you have on here? Because that’s not ‘standing your ground in a male environment‘. That’s being submissive. And if that’s what you want to be, then fair enough, but don’t pretend you’re groundbreaking

You have absolutely nailed it @Buddytheelf85.

I think what a minority of posters are also showing is an attitude that implies that women who suffer at the hands of men, on any scale, must have somehow brought it one themselves.

They only know nice men.
They have never experienced sexism
They are better than other women because of this and that’s why men like them better, not like those other bitches.

What they fail to realise is that they are just as despised and looked down on as the rest of us by a certain type of man, they are just tolerated more because they don’t rock the boat. This is still no guarantee of safety or respect.

Buddytheelf85

If you had read my posts, the only thing I am refusing to do is generalising and making comments so extremes that they become laughable and frankly embarrassing.

It's always amusing to see how expressing any other opinion than the most irate one is always an invitation for abuse by some.

The "my way" or you are wrong and therefore must be MALE is hardly a way to raise awareness or help anything.

You cannot seriously complain about the "Patriarchy" trying to shut up and abuse women and invite hysterical posters to do exactly that. I chose the word hysterical on purpose in this case.

Pp's comment about Andy Murray standing up and calling out sexist behaviour : why don't other men do this?

Because they have it good, do men. So, so, good. Why would they rock the boat?

They care only about their own comfort, not women. And let's not forget, women are also humans. Humans, being abused, trafficked, the brunt of ridiculous jokes in the office etc ad nauseum.

Was reading 'the rudest a stranger had been to you' thread in AIBU and the sexism is bloody dispicable on there. Men grabbing women, making disgusting comments. It's other MEN that need to call men out.

You know, fathers and brothers and husbands!

Rude and obnoxious 50 something year old male working there intimidated them and threw his weight around making them feel stupid and insecure. He then proceeded to openly leer at them, until they felt a uncomfortable they left
arghh what a c*
I'm a 50 something woman into strength training and a veteran of all that sh1t, however there ARE better gyms, ones with decent respectful staff, I hope they will try somewhere else?

What they fail to realise is that they are just as despised and looked down on as the rest of us by a certain type of man, they are just tolerated more because they don’t rock the boat. This is still no guarantee of safety or respect.

And the opening gambit of so many of these men when trying to get into a woman's good graces? "You're not like other girls..."

What they fail to realise is that they are just as despised and looked down on as the rest of us by a certain type of man, they are just tolerated more because they don’t rock the boat. This is still no guarantee of safety or respect
^WORD!

Great post @TheGoodEnoughWife. It reminds me of a meme I once saw. It said something like, "you say you're protectors. Who is it that you are protecting us FROM?"

Male on female violence really does benefit all men.

I haven't read the full thread.

I have no doubt that some posters have posted stories of horrible women and their lovely men though. Yeah, my husband is lovely too. Not the point.

In my line of work I come across seriously traumatised people often, and the majority of their trauma sis caused by men. It is horrendous.

We know it isn't all men, but it is too many men and male violence still isnt taking seriously enough. Sexism is still rife. Women are still carrying the mental load for family life. It is disgusting.

I am happily married, but if anything happened to us I wouldn't bother again, because there are too many shit dangerous men out there and now I am not so trusting, I wouldn't want to take the risk again. I don't trust men any longer, and yes, I do know many lovely men, but I know they really are few and far between.

@Pechanga Don't be disheartened, try elsewhere. I've been in gyms and martial arts clubs all my life, and in the good ones I've found genuine respect, not sexism.

’I feel so disheartened today, my shy DD16 visited a gym for the first time with her friend, they were so excited. She is so motivated to improve her health and fitness and adopt a healthy lifestyle.’

Is there a women’s only gym she can use? The one I used to use was always full of teenaged girls along with the odd middle aged woman (like me.) There’s a reason that they chose to exercise there. I used to feel a little queasy walking past the queues for (mixed) classes seeing balding men in their 50s with bellies trying to flirt with attractive women who’d barely hit 20 and quite obviously had them in the ‘dad’ category.

What they fail to realise is that they are just as despised and looked down on as the rest of us by a certain type of man,

reading some of the comments, "they" are just as despised and looked down by a certain type of woman too.

Yep. I'm a teacher at an all girls school with a mixed 6th form. First time teaching boys and some of the things they would say to the girls in the class or even occasionally to me was shocking. It would always be passed off as banter so I sent them out every single time they crossed a line. They soon learnt but that's only when they're in my classroom.
I remember sitting in with a class of mixed 14 years olds being talked to about the danger of alcohol. The (male) speaker was explaining how vulnerable you are when you're drunk etc etc and saying to the girls that they are putting themselves at risk and should think about where they go and who with. I waited and waited for him to talk to the boys but he never did so I calmly raised my hand and suggested that victim blaming is not appropriate and surely he should be also telling the boys not to assault girls when they're drunk. He looked genuinely shocked and I had to talk to my line manager about my behaviour!! He was male of course.

@HitthatroadJack

What they fail to realise is that they are just as despised and looked down on as the rest of us by a certain type of man,

reading some of the comments, "they" are just as despised and looked down by a certain type of woman too.

I’ll stand up and fight for your right as a woman to have whatever opinion you chose, however damaging or patronising that might be to me, but I don’t have to like you or agree with you to do that.

You can’t say on one hand that it’s your right to tell women they are not victims of sexism and patriarchy and need to get over their bitchy selves in a tone of utter contempt and then be self righteous about those same women exercising their right to disagree with and dislike you.

Actions = consequences, for everyone.

Surely standing your ground in all those superior male dominated environments has taught you that?

I think the most important thing to teach our daughters is that being liked and wanted by men is not the be all and end all.

That way you raise women that don’t give a fuck what men think, and hopefully are strong enough to never ever put up with their shite.

My mother thinks you cannot be happy without a man. Well, I’ve spent more of my life unhappy with a man than I have without one. But it took me so long to realise that. I wish I’d had the confidence instilled in me from the very start that women are enough without a frigging man.

And men see this. They see the women that can’t be without a partner and exploit it. I hate it.

And men see this. They see the women that can’t be without a partner and exploit it. I hate it

This is very true @TeddyIsaHe. I know I’ve been that woman in the past and the price I paid to hold onto a man.

And on the flip side I am now a woman who can be without a partner and I’ve had men try to tear that to shreds as well.

Apparently ‘men need to feel needed. They need to feel that they are rescuing you. If you don’t need us to save you, or give you babies or a house or security, what advantage do we have?’

Direct quote from a man I dated briefly. When I said that relationships could be built on partners being equal rather than one having an advantage his answer was ‘fuck that. I’m a man. I’m in charge in my relationships’

He went on to marry someone else after 6 months and she kicked him out 2 months into the marriage as she found out he’d handed his notice in at work and was staying at home drinking all day because she was a high-earner and he’d decided he wanted to be a stay at home dad - to their dog!
He didn’t discuss it with her as he made an executive decision as ‘head of the house’.

I occasionally cross paths with him socially still and he’s that drunk lech that women cross the room to avoid and warn each other about.

I think the most important thing to teach our daughters is that being liked and wanted by men is not the be all and end all.

This, so much. You only have to spend half an hour on MN to see just what a problem this is. Females turn themselves inside out to attract and keep men, some of which treat them so appallingly. It is so depressing.

I agree it’s too many men

And too many so called kinder men don’t want to really listen when we tell them how things are for us

I remember a post on here a few weeks ago where a woman spoke about her boyfriend forcing sex after she kicked him off her making clear (well, according to standard human signals) that she was in alarming pain for some reason when the penetration was too deep. She said she was kicking him, and vocal about her distress.
He was close to ejaculation and forced himself back in/on her so he could finish, physically hurting her much more.
She posted looking for views about it and said she found it hard to get past it. Even though they didn't talk about it, she said he wasn't uncomfortable about the whole thing. He was otherwise a nice guy, she said.
Reverse the male and female, and you can clearly see the downright sense of entitlement, and lack of empathy for another human being that he had. Most commentators condemned him, which is good.

A woman in a similar sexual position might be frustrated for sure, but would she feel entitled to 'ride' him again dispite him screaming that he was in pain? Usually, no.

I've had similar happen to me several times, not the same thing but things explained as okay because we live in a male-dominated narrative. We need to keep calling out this extremely sexiest mess of culture/society.

@Redstorm2807

Yep. I'm a teacher at an all girls school with a mixed 6th form. First time teaching boys and some of the things they would say to the girls in the class or even occasionally to me was shocking. It would always be passed off as banter so I sent them out every single time they crossed a line. They soon learnt but that's only when they're in my classroom. I remember sitting in with a class of mixed 14 years olds being talked to about the danger of alcohol. The (male) speaker was explaining how vulnerable you are when you're drunk etc etc and saying to the girls that they are putting themselves at risk and should think about where they go and who with. I waited and waited for him to talk to the boys but he never did so I calmly raised my hand and suggested that victim blaming is not appropriate and surely he should be also telling the boys not to assault girls when they're drunk. He looked genuinely shocked and I had to talk to my line manager about my behaviour!! He was male of course.

Great example of taking action. We should all be challenging that type of behaviour every day. It's a sorry state of affairs that we have to. Keep on!