AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

@HitthatroadJack

When you see teens pushed to suicide because of "bitchy girls", you realise how hypocritical some posters can be when reality doesn't fit their little agenda. Some people WANT to hate and be right, who cares about anything else.

Don't like women and girls much do you?

Obviously a man. The exit is THAT way. >>>>>>>>

Spouting on "not all men" and "yeah but women too" shifts the discussion away from discussing problematic male behaviours and instead derails it into protecting male feelings.

[quote lostintheday]@Coffeeandcocopops

Are you tempted to tell his wife?[/quote]
I have refused to go out with them either as a group or as a couple. I don’t know his friend or his wife but he has told me about him. If I knew the wife yes I would.

When people are saying things like "even the good ones aren't really good, they secretly approve of the behaviour of the bad ones because it makes them look good" you wonder what is the point of having a discussion at all.

@FoxyTheFox

Spouting on "not all men" and "yeah but women too" shifts the discussion away from discussing problematic male behaviours and instead derails it into protecting male feelings.

But @FoxyTheFox those are the only feelings that matter!

If a conversation doesn’t revolve round a man/men and their opinion, is it even a conversation at all?

Might have to go to yoga and meditate on that.

@ilovepuggies

Well to be honest I’ve had it with people who only see one side of things.

Coming from a middle aged woman with a brilliant grandad, a dad that did everything and a very caring husband.

My experience of women were an abusive mother and bitchy girls at school.

I agree there are privileged men out there but having that as your complete view of 51% of the population is very narrow, negative and harming.

Maybe start reading the happy newspaper, volunteering, looking for male positive news stories, start meditating and yoga

FFS!

To be honest none of us know how our darling nigels behave when out with their mates. We don’t know if they display sexist behaviour and we don’t know if they question their mates behaviour. If a women is there men behave differently.

However when in my 20s and I was out there were lots of groups of nigels and they would put their elbows out as we girls walked past or they would rank women etc etc. So I’m not understanding this discrepancy when some peeps say not all men. But lots of men.

@CounsellorTroi

When people are saying things like "even the good ones aren't really good, they secretly approve of the behaviour of the bad ones because it makes them look good" you wonder what is the point of having a discussion at all.

The point is show that it’s not enough for a man to be ‘good’ if he isn’t also challenging his peers who aren’t so good.

Whatever you aren’t changing, you are accepting.

That applies to any scenario of inequality or unfairness but especially relevant here.
It’s not easy. It takes guts and a stance that could isolate them from their peer group but without men standing alongside women saying ‘enough’ the next generations will be having these same arguments.

Men kill women. They do. All the bitchy girls in the world isn’t going to change that. That’s where the pain is.

So I’m not understanding this discrepancy when some peeps say not all men. But lots of men.

I imagine the people saying it live in a lovely, pastel-coloured, world where they can convince themselves that they don't know any rapists or domestic abusers and that all of the men they know are upstanding Mr Rodgers types.

[quote yetanothernamitynamechange]@ilovepuggies I don't think all men are that bad or that all women are good. Your mother sounds like a case in point. However, your comment about the girls school does back up what I said before about what "bad" for a woman v "bad" for a man looks like. I have met bitchy women before. I have also met physically violent, sexually violent, you name it men. The men that are only bitchy/a bit catty are usually seen as the GOOD ones. Women who are bitchy are the bad ones.[/quote]
Brilliant post! Well said. It's like the men who are go-getting and assertive and ballsy at work, are classed as positive role models who are dedicated to their careers.

Whereas a woman who is the same, is a salty bitch, who is either frigid, was probably unloved as a child, or she is a terrible mother.

Again, when men spend all their time dedicated to their career, it's seen as wonderful, but when women do, they are obviously shit mothers, bitches, or cold-hearted harridans. (Or ALL three!)

LisaLee333

despite your strong efforts to portray the entire female population as an angry and homogeneous group full of hate, thankfully in real life most of us are much more balanced and more successful.

If your best insult is to call me "a MAN", try harder, I had much worst. From girls actually

It's highly ironic when the so-call woman that you pretend you are is so indignant and horrified that another woman can have their own opinion and a different one. If there is something like a "sisterhood" you are most certainly not part of it my dear.

I never understand why the truth that some women can be awful is seen as a compelling argument to suggest that issues with men overall are fake or over egged? It's the classic, "what about the men?" argument, just in a different form.

@HitthatroadJack

Take the advice from your username mate.

Most of you have a lot of energy talking about this so I think your energy should be redirected into being the change you want to see and doing instead of complaining.

Another gem from @ilovepuggies

What is wierd is that on another thread about "sexy dressing" being unnattractive, pencil skirts were held up as an example of women trying to dress sexy for male attention. I argued that I wore pencil skirts and liked wearing nice clothes (not even particularly revealing, just nice) for nights out but wasn't doing it for men. Other posters INSISTED that I and other posters must be doing it for male attention, and that either I was in denial or it was subconcious. So simultaneously, I am a man hating harpy who refuses to see male's humanity and inner goodness and I desperately want men to validate me with their attention and like my bum.

I had never really thought of that style of skirt being particularly sexy or revealing before either so it was interesting.

@SpaceOp

I never understand why the truth that some women can be awful is seen as a compelling argument to suggest that issues with men overall are fake or over egged? It's the classic, "what about the men?" argument, just in a different form.

Exactly. What about da menz!

When men constantly have issues with being sexually harassed, hounded, catcalled, assaulted, raped, kept down at work, made to feel like a shit parent if they are career-orientated, have to endure being put down, mocked, and laughed at by the opposite sex, and can't walk down their own road without fear of being hounded and jeered at by the opposite sex, then they can complain.

And when they have to be the primary caregiver to the children, and put their life and career on hold when they have kids, when they are expected to do 90% of the lion's share of the housework, the childcare, and grunt work, (often in addition to having a JOB,) then they can complain.

But that's NEVER going to happen, because women will ALWAYS have the shit deal in life compared to men. Anyone who doesn't admit that is either deluded, or a troll.

I am disgusted by the comments on here - from a few posters, who, despite their protestations, are clearly MALE.

Lots of men are absolutely awful. That’s very true.

Some women are also awful. Saying one sex is preternaturally destined to be worse or more horrible than the other isn’t helpful, in my opinion. We need to be looking at the societal issues which make some men act this way - and change them. Or this cycle will just keep on going...

Its not the responsibility of women to change the behaviour of men, we are not here to fix them. Even the suggestion that is down to women to "be the change" is fucking misogyny at its finest because ultimately society views men as responsible solely for themselves while women are responsible for everything and everyone else. Man rapes? Woman must have done something to entice him. Man murders? Woman must have done something to anger him. Man says something sexist? Woman should grow a thicker skin. And on it goes.

@LisaLee333 exactly. And most of the genuine problems men do face come from the same toxic culture. So if a man (or woman) tries to use those problems to somehow justify or detract from all the issues facing women (which you outlined above) its proof they are full of shit. If they really were concerned about male victims of domestic violence (normally commited by men), male rape victims (the same), male murder rates (the same) male suicide rates etc they would be working against toxic masculinity not denying its existence.

LisaLee333
If I manage to stand my ground happily in a male environment, I am hardly likely to be intimidated by a random on an anonymous forum. If you are not happy with my posts, ignore them, or feel free to leave the thread. You don't get to shut my up because I don't agree with your extreme views.

I am disgusted by the comments on here - from a few posters, who, despite their protestations, are clearly MALE.
if you genuinely believe no one can have an opinion without being a MALE, you just proved what is wrong with people like you. YOU are more damaging to the rest of us than anyone else, and I don't have to like it.

@ilovepuggies

Most of you have a lot of energy talking about this so I think your energy should be redirected into being the change you want to see and doing instead of complaining.

we are airing our grievances, collaborating, finding solidarity in others who've had similar experiences, discussing the issues and raising awareness

I think one of the big things for me is that even the decent men are passive when it comes to speaking out about sexism etc.

I’m sure he’s no saint and someone will be along to criticise him, but Andy Murray has at least publicly spoken out about sexist remarks etc.

How many other men do this?