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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

999 replies

PurpleFeather · 08/12/2020 21:54

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

OP posts:
ButteredStrumpetWithJam · 09/12/2020 13:21

Now in my 50s I’ve gone from angry to just tired and disappointed from a lifetime of experiencing poor behaviour from too many men.

  • My Dad was emotionally and physically absent most of the time once I’d started school
  • Sexist attitude of male careers advisor at school
  • At 17, with dyed hair, a council workman asking me if all my hair was that colour
  • At 18, dumped at a weekend music festival for the 1 time I told then BF “no” to sex as I was exhausted. So was left alone to fend for myself.
  • Screamed at and pushed about in the street by a drunk in the middle of the day all because he didn’t like my funny coloured hair. I hadn’t looked at him or spoken to him. No one came to my aid, including a man who said I should’ve hit him back (what, get into a fist fight with a bigger, stronger, more aggressive human?!).
  • Another ex-BF tried to rape me. Luckily my fighting put him off, but I think that had he become physically aggressive I’d have had to become passive to save myself, in which case he would’ve succeeded.
  • Groped repeatedly by a man at work then blamed for it
  • Treated badly then ghosted on my 21st birthday by another then BF
  • Having my car door kicked in whilst inside it when I dumped another BF
  • Regularly groped when out in clubs
  • hassled and groped at a gig to the point I felt frightened for my safety at closing time. The man was relentless.
  • General leering, letching, sexist comments, cat calls. Of course these aren’t “awful” but they contribute to the constant drone as a PP said.
  • Propositioned by much older married men when I was 20s. Wonder if their wives thought they were “nice”?
  • Married male boss suggesting, out of the blue (we’d only ever had a strictly professional relationship), that we fuck on his desk. Same boss telling me he and another company director had voted my arse the best in the place. They seemed “nice” men too.
  • Helpful male friends who suddenly don’t want to know me when I politely turn down a romantic relationship. Obviously only helpful as they were after a shag.
  • Boundary pushing male friends
  • Another ex-BF stalked me. Silent calls in the night, came into my house uninvited, emotional blackmail, let my car tyres down, pushed his way into my house and pinned me against the wall, then snatched the phone off me when I dialed 999. Single male copper eventually arrived, chewing gum, looking disinterested. CJS didn’t do much. I felt really let down.
  • Online dating arseholes who are sexually inappropriate and/or get abusive when I’ve said no thanks to a date
  • Ghosted by controlling fiance. In hindsight I can see he did me a favour, but still
  • Men not being upfront and honest about what they want out of a relationship, and most being incapable of emotionally intelligent discussions when the inevitable issues crop up.
  • The negging from a couple of BFs, the effects of which are still impacting my self esteem many years later
  • Dance classes marred by twat who seemed to only be there to get his hands on women, especially those half his age. The teacher had to have words with him as a few had complained.
  • So, so many disappointing relationships (which I think stemmed from my relationship with my Dad) that I eventually decided to become a self-employed sex worker so that at least I called the shots. That if men were going to be shit they could bloody well compensate me well financially. At the time I felt powerful, had better experiences with clients than with many previous BFs, but the flip side was that I saw so many “lovely” married men (and they really did treat me well) whose wives had no idea they were cheating with prostitutes. I’ve never looked at men in quite the same way again. Plus, since being on MN, I’ve realised I was part of a wider problem of male entitlement, so this “girl power” feeling I had is bitter sweet.
  • Partner bailing out of co-habiting soon after I’d sold my house (that I could’ve paid off quickly myself) and we’d taken on a massive joint mortgage. Cost me £Ks all because he didn’t have the guts to pull out before we exchanged contracts. He was a much higher earner so it didn't impact him as badly.
  • A close relative of a friend was raped and murdered...by a man

Sorry, that was a long list!
I hold on to all the positive experiences I’ve had to try and remain balanced, but hell there are way too many badly behaved men out there, even the “nice”, “good” ones. I’d love to date again but I’m so wary of being hurt mentally or physically, and knowing that if I as in a position to have to prosecute a man for sexual assault my sex-worker past would be dredged up and I would have a much harder time being taken seriously.

ButteredStrumpetWithJam · 09/12/2020 13:22

@TheDogisBarkingAgain, fucking hell, I’m so sorry that happened to you, it’s utterly appalling Flowers 🤬

mscynical · 09/12/2020 13:26

@exPR
And I agree with a previous poster that ‘woke’ men are just as bad, if not worse.

This absolutely - it is grooming. I would also not trust any type of 'yoga, trantric, mindfulness, exlore your spirituality' bloke AT ALL.

My ex who stopped paying maintainance (very high earner) not only for my kids but his next three children and had a porn habit so bad he had to go for help (which obviously did not work as he kept his internet porn collection which my children discovered when they were last at his house) walks around in a 'Feminist' t-shirt and wears it to arty events and the college where he teaches young people!

TheDogisBarkingAgain · 09/12/2020 13:27

Thank you to everyone who sent me their good wishes, flowers, has me in their thoughts etc. I don't want to take up the whole thread thanking you all individually but it does mean a lot to me that people out there care.

And to the poster who asked, I have managed to make a life for myself now, I have been working on getting qualifications and it's something I'll probably work on my while life because I love learning. I'm no longer scared to do things I wasn't allowed to do when I was with my "boyfriend" and I have created a home I love that is my way, not his. I am scared of men, not individual men when I know them, but as a group. I wouldn't get in a lift alone with a man, I can't use taxis alone, I can't have workmen in the house or order a takeaway if I'm alone so it has impacted my life but I'm choosing to look at it as protecting myself rather than being scared to help me deal with it and twice this year I have been alone in my home with workman and talked myself through it in my head so I can stay calm while they're there.

Unfortunately many women and children have, are and will go through worse things than I did and it does get overwhelming reading the news, social media or watching TV. Even 'low-level' sexism gets overwhelming after a short period of time. I used to read the everyday sexism twitter account because I wanted to support those women but it was making me worse so I had to stop. So there are still things I avoid, but maybe one day I'll be able to do things like that again as well.

Thank you again everyone and I'm sorry for all of the experiences you've shared here and for everyone who doesn't feel able or want to share as well.

Emeraldshamrock · 09/12/2020 13:27

Yep most men are shit-bags and don't see it.

Dragongirl10 · 09/12/2020 13:31

*With you completely OP.

I am weary of it to my bones.

I have always been vocal about misogyny & patriarchy as I grew up in a very conservative, patriarchal society where DV was not only common but never ever challenged. Every female relative of my grandmothers’s generation was beaten and raped by their husbands and considered property.

As an adult I thought I had made a conscious effort to surround myself with good men. And women who knew good men.

In the last week alone I have argued with gay male friends who referred to women as ‘fish’ and thought it was not only funny but universally accepted that some gay men would rather women not exist because ‘that’s their sexual preference’. Because they don’t want to fuck them, women shouldn’t exist.

I have had to tell one of my closest friends that her very feminist, left wing partner has been harassing me by text because he is ‘sick’ of me having opinions he doesn’t agree with and my ‘aggressiveness’ when disagreeing with him is ‘unattractive’ and he ‘will not stand for it any longer’. My friend thinks I am over reacting and misunderstanding him and if I could just learn to let him speak without interrupting or disagreeing, things would be better. Her partner is a police officer.

I look at the women I am surrounded by - intelligent, courageous, compassionate women broken by men who treated them like sex objects, surrogate mothers or free domestic help.

And I agree with a previous poster that ‘woke’ men are just as bad, if not worse.

I know where I stand with a balls out woman-hater but have been floored by discovering the truth of some of the men who claim to be supporters of women’s equality, feminism and anti-patriarchy.

I was friends with one until I rejected his advances and the verbal abuse and hatred came out. I was approached by someone else who’d had the same experience with him, who discovered that not only did he befriend women with the sole expectation of sleeping with them but that he has a history of EVERY kind of violence against women as long as his arm, including the near murder of a wife and child who have a restraining order against him. He is attractive, successful, wealthy and great company and passionate about equality and fairness. And very very convincing.

My ex has been rewarded and recognised for his women positive attitude and educating his male peers on equality in the workplace. Women fawn over him and praise him and treat him like a god because of it. He is the very guy many women would cite when they say ‘not all men’.

I haven’t the time or the energy to list the many ways in which he hates women but his cruelty and abuse would fill several forums. I thought his behaviour was hatred of me, but having spoken to his most significant ex what he did to me pales in comparison to what he did and continues to do to her and is rooted in his hatred of women, especially those who call out his hypocrisy.

It’s exhausting.*

This really resonates with me, so many seemingly decent men who l have found out to be anything but, from the father of my 11 year old school friend who seemed so welcoming, but she as an adult confessed he had sexually abused her and her sister from a young age, to the boyfriend of mine who worked in a healing/medical profession and supposedly spent his life helping people, who hit then when dumped stalked me....You would never guess.
That is why l am passionate about women shouting loudly about the abuse or comments they receive.
Women need to be so much more assertive in their responses and zero tolerant of this behavior, ie stop being like a woman and more like a man..

McCanne · 09/12/2020 13:35

YANBU. I read the article yesterday about men posting looking for cheap ‘sex services’ in Scotland during covid and I feel like something has snapped. There might be ‘good men’ but they’re doing fuck all about the rest of them.

Yohoheaveho · 09/12/2020 13:39

I know it's still bad but I think things are shifting, as women increasingly can have financial independence from men, I think this is a key thing
Yes there are numerous blacklashes from men, but we see this for what it is, an attempt to regain lost control.
Stop being like a woman and more like a man
I agree with this, the reason men like feminine women is because they are submissive biddable and easy to control, which means they can get what they want at our expense and we don't even complain.
We all need to start acting like men.

LisaLee333 · 09/12/2020 13:40

@exPR

With you completely OP.

I am weary of it to my bones.

I have always been vocal about misogyny & patriarchy as I grew up in a very conservative, patriarchal society where DV was not only common but never ever challenged. Every female relative of my grandmothers’s generation was beaten and raped by their husbands and considered property.

As an adult I thought I had made a conscious effort to surround myself with good men. And women who knew good men.

In the last week alone I have argued with gay male friends who referred to women as ‘fish’ and thought it was not only funny but universally accepted that some gay men would rather women not exist because ‘that’s their sexual preference’. Because they don’t want to fuck them, women shouldn’t exist.

I have had to tell one of my closest friends that her very feminist, left wing partner has been harassing me by text because he is ‘sick’ of me having opinions he doesn’t agree with and my ‘aggressiveness’ when disagreeing with him is ‘unattractive’ and he ‘will not stand for it any longer’. My friend thinks I am over reacting and misunderstanding him and if I could just learn to let him speak without interrupting or disagreeing, things would be better. Her partner is a police officer.

I look at the women I am surrounded by - intelligent, courageous, compassionate women broken by men who treated them like sex objects, surrogate mothers or free domestic help.

And I agree with a previous poster that ‘woke’ men are just as bad, if not worse.

I know where I stand with a balls out woman-hater but have been floored by discovering the truth of some of the men who claim to be supporters of women’s equality, feminism and anti-patriarchy.

I was friends with one until I rejected his advances and the verbal abuse and hatred came out. I was approached by someone else who’d had the same experience with him, who discovered that not only did he befriend women with the sole expectation of sleeping with them but that he has a history of EVERY kind of violence against women as long as his arm, including the near murder of a wife and child who have a restraining order against him. He is attractive, successful, wealthy and great company and passionate about equality and fairness. And very very convincing.

My ex has been rewarded and recognised for his women positive attitude and educating his male peers on equality in the workplace. Women fawn over him and praise him and treat him like a god because of it. He is the very guy many women would cite when they say ‘not all men’.

I haven’t the time or the energy to list the many ways in which he hates women but his cruelty and abuse would fill several forums. I thought his behaviour was hatred of me, but having spoken to his most significant ex what he did to me pales in comparison to what he did and continues to do to her and is rooted in his hatred of women, especially those who call out his hypocrisy.

It’s exhausting.

Excellent post! And I think most women will relate to this.
lostintheday · 09/12/2020 13:49

walks around in a 'Feminist' t-shirt and wears it to arty events and the college where he teaches young people!

Yep, the men I have dated who called themselves feminists were far worse than the ones who didn't feel the need to give themselves a feminist label. I'm still trying to figure this out.

Yohoheaveho · 09/12/2020 13:58

@lostintheday

walks around in a 'Feminist' t-shirt and wears it to arty events and the college where he teaches young people!

Yep, the men I have dated who called themselves feminists were far worse than the ones who didn't feel the need to give themselves a feminist label. I'm still trying to figure this out.

It provides them with cover and it means that their victims will trust them, standard techniques of grooming and abusing
lostintheday · 09/12/2020 14:09

@Yohoheaveho

I don't think any of them were intelligent enough to be that calculating.

I think, with their politics, they realised 'good' men were feminists, but they were too arrogant/ not bothered enough to read any feminism or think about what being a feminist actually meant in terms of their own attitudes or behaviour. It also meant they could bat off any complaints about their behaviour as they were 'feminists'.

HerselfIndoors · 09/12/2020 14:13

My ex is one of these "feminist" men who is always posting smug wokery on twitter and acting like he's Mr fantastic at work because he always tries to help women in the careers blah de blah.

This is the man who wouldn't do any housework until nagged to within an inch of his life, did far less childcare, and refused to go even slightly part-time (and lied that it wasn't possible) so we could share the load and I could advance in my career as much as him.

But, I don't think it's a conscious "cover" for evil - it's more that he needs to be seen as lovely by people, so he puts on this act that gets him brownie points. Within the home and family, no one was fooled so he didn't bother and the real him showed.

tallduckandhandsome · 09/12/2020 14:14

YANBU, I was reflecting how the men I know (family, friends, colleagues, bosses) have all screwed me over at various times. All of them.

tallduckandhandsome · 09/12/2020 14:14

And DH Sad

TheGoodEnoughWife · 09/12/2020 14:17

Great thread. Also nearing my fifties and see this sort of shit everywhere!

The thing about the 'good ones' is they aren't actively calling out the 'bad ones' as they are benefiting from them. Look how good a man feels if he walks a woman home or to their car to keep them safe? He only gets that good feeling as there are men out there who hurt women. And women are grateful to him for keeping her safe. Only needed as women are at risk from men.

Why would men call this out when they get such positive feedback for being NOT bad. Feels like it is okay to have threats from men to women so some men can get brownie points for looking after women.
So not all men but condoned by most men.

lostintheday · 09/12/2020 14:24

My ex is one of these "feminist" men who is always posting smug wokery on twitter

Yeah, one of my 'feminist ex's' the one who was most ardent about his feminism and how he teaches his students to be feminists blah blah, once pinned me down by wrists during PIV sex and when I struggled to get free, pinned me down harder (and we had never, ever done anything even remotely bondage/ S&M or power play as I hate that stuff). On his Facebook page a couple of weeks later he posted women chanting ' The rapist is you', not him of course, some other bloke, not him.

FairTheeWell · 09/12/2020 14:25

YANBU. My peak was a nightshift I did a few years ago, one of my first in this job, it was just assault after assualt after assualt all by men. Including a teenage boy whod been attacked by a gang of men, and it culminated in a woman who had been seriously assaulted by her partner, mutiple broken bones, covered in her own blood and I just sat with her for hours.

Since then Ive seen many horrific injuries, I think all by men. I cant think of a single patient Ive seen whos been there as a result of an injury by a woman, a solid 30% of my work, pretty much 80% on a friday/saturday night, is as a result of assualt. One poor lady sadly ended up dieing from her injuries and the worst bit was the excuses people made for why her husband would have done it. Like I was expected to feel empathy for a man who had murdered his wife?

Even men who seem decent, recently there was a scenario where one of my colleageues basically admitted to financially abusing his partner and male colleagues who I considered decent were comisersting with him about his money grabbing partner, mother of his children who was a stay at home mum facilitating his career. He wasnt going to marry her because then shed get 50% of his house. Or you know, his childrens home.

I do know several geneuinly lovely men, but I feel they get praised for just normal, decent behaviour. Some men get praised for not being violent or angry, he doesnt scare me and that makes him a wonderful man, but that should just be baseline behaviour.

BCIW2 · 09/12/2020 14:25

Where to start. Most men think women are beneath them. Most men are a disappointment. This has got worse since I was at uni, when I was optimistic things were getting better (20yrs ago). But it was just a facade. They were never getting better.
Look at how blatant it is in for example the Middle East. There’s no pretence there, we know what we’re dealing with.
Here mens’ attitudes are the same, I’ve no doubt. It’s just not socially acceptable for them to admit they think that way.
I’m happilyish married, to a good man, but if it ever ends, there’s no way I’m putting myself or my children in the path of another man. No chance.

YoungScrappyHungry · 09/12/2020 14:25

@Rosalisa I started that thread and was so saddened by the amount of harassment/assault posters were reporting.

YANBU at all OP. Where are the men standing up for equality? Where are the ones saying mate that isn't funny? Often the same ones who support BLM and consider themselves liberal and fair, where are they as allies?

Buddytheelf85 · 09/12/2020 14:26

One of the many things I find shocking is how we totally normalise male violence against women. As a society we don’t really talk about why men kill women or how we could prevent it. And we take every step possible to blame women for it - she was walking alone at night! She was wearing a short skirt!

Can you imagine if 200 people from one social group were killed by people from another group every single year? Imagine if, for example, 200 white people in the UK were violently murdered by members of the Muslim community every year without fail. There would be absolute outcry. There would be calls to rid the country of Muslims. There would be hugely expensive security and education programmes to prevent it happening. There would be inquests and inquiries.

But when it’s men killing women. Meh. Just one of those things. Got to watch out for it. Unlucky. Don’t walk alone at night.

YoungScrappyHungry · 09/12/2020 14:29

Oh my God @Buddytheelf85 so true. Sad

Redannie118 · 09/12/2020 14:30

I had breast cancer this year. On breast cancer awareness day i lost count of the posts saying " But what about the men? We get breast cancer too! Breast cancer is not just pink! Wheres our awareness?" 350 men in the UK got breast cancer last year. 55 thousand women, yet its still so much worse for them. When pointed out the events are hosted by women for women and men were welcome to do the same, i was called sexist and that if i was a true feminist i would believe equality goes both ways. Oh the irony...... .

lostintheday · 09/12/2020 14:34

Imagine if, for example, 200 white people in the UK were violently murdered by members of the Muslim community every year without fail. There would be absolute outcry

Or if white people regularly wanked off to films of black people being humiliated and abused and degraded. We'd all recognise that for what it is right? But when its men wanking to women being abused and degraded the entire capitalist, financial, tech and governmental industries support or permit it.

lostintheday · 09/12/2020 14:37

When pointed out the events are hosted by women for women and men were welcome to do the same

Oh God that reminds me of a young man I saw on a tv debate angrily berating the women panelists as to why feminists were not doing anything about the issues he faced as a man...
Because we are not your mothers. Organise your own movement in your own cause mate. Don't be angry at women for not doing that for you.

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