AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

When a couple of female students were raped on their way back to halls in Edinburgh it was the (male) rugby club who walked the area, had guys in each pub to walk women home and who successfully aprehended the rapist.

@CoalCraft

Sorry you're surrounded by cunts OP. Fwiw, the vast majority of men I know are lovely, and the ones that aren't are irritating for reasons not related to them being men.

I have a wonderful husband, father, brothers, grandfathers, uncles and male friends. Maybe one day I'll have a wonderful son too.

Same here. But you can never be sure they are wonderful men, simply because they are men. That's the message of this thread anyway.

@Tomorrowistomorrow you have my heartfelt sympathy. I’ve observed such behaviour in my former occupations as lawyer and social worker.
Can you change your solicitor because this one looks like a saboteur to me. I generally recommend a woman lawyer as it is quickly evident if they are empathetic and fully aware of the tricks errant fathers can play
or whether they are Aunty Toms. Male lawyers can appear ok but have hidden agendas not at first obvious.

I don't have kids but are there any books that could be recommended on here specifically for teenage females that set boundaries, and relay the problems of a misogynistic society that they will face, to be aware of, to call out, to change. I know there are the Everyday Sexism books etc but are there any others. Perhaps mothers of sons could get them to read the same books. This shit has got to stop.

If you ever see reviews by men of books like Everyday Sexism, they are fathers of daughters who have no idea of the crap that is thrown at females from an early age, and when trying to just live their lives.

People are often far more willing to make excuses for men's bad behaviour than women's. My DD had several upsetting episodes of being harrassed in the evenings in a multi-storey car park a while ago. The harrassers were a group of probably-homeless street drinkers and car park security told DD she should have given them money when they asked and to stop being unkind to them. One made all sorts of threats to her and followed her.

I've also missed out on a promotion at work that I was super-qualified for and would have aced. Nothing to do with any female reticence on my part. Another colleague with no experience in that particular area was given the job because he "needed the management experience". It's a strategic role, not active line management. Colleague is competent but no more at his core tasks and is actually really bad at timekeeping and showing up for Sunday or Monday morning shifts particularly, but his face fits with senior management and his awful lateness is laughed off as a laddish foible. If I did that, I'd be disciplined and I would expect to be.

@cdtaylornats

When a couple of female students were raped on their way back to halls in Edinburgh it was the (male) rugby club who walked the area, had guys in each pub to walk women home and who successfully aprehended the rapist.

Whilst that was a good thing for these men to do, the message it gives is that women are only safe from rape when they have the ‘protection’ of men.

Women alone, without that protection, are somehow bringing it on themselves.

I would wonder how many of those men, with their good intentions, talked to other men about consent and what men can do to stop the rape of women out alone.

Alys20

but a quick read through the pp shows that you cannot and do not speak for the majority on this thread. 😂

funny that! Not sure why you think that it matters or proves anything either way, or why anyone would care?

I couldn't disagree more with PPs who feel men are like a different species. They are people, with the same emotional range as women, and not being able to empathise with them is a failing as much as it is a failing when a man can't empathise with a woman. Yes, there are differences in lived experiences that lead to slight differences in perspective but I still think the sexes have far more in common than they do different.

I also dislike the idea of solve sort of world wide sisterhood, as if being a woman by itself gives me any significant way to relate to all other women in the world. Unless it's the specifics of menstrual cycles or pregnancy, neither of which I consider remotely important to my identity, there's no reason I should find more to talk about with a woman who shares none of my hobbies or interests than a man who does, or should relate more to a woman from a very different culture, who might see things very differently, than a man from my own.

Stop seeing men as aliens. They have the same feelings as you, even if they may have been conditioned to process and express them differently.

@cdtaylornats

When a couple of female students were raped on their way back to halls in Edinburgh it was the (male) rugby club who walked the area, had guys in each pub to walk women home and who successfully aprehended the rapist.

I mean,- ok?- good for them they did a nice thing. That doesn’t take away the long history of violence and oppression perpetrated by men against women over centuries.

I volunteer for a charity helping people with mental health issues, does that mean all women are wonderful because I choose to volunteer? Or should I expect a medal for it too? Being nice and a decent person is the most basic level I would expect of any human being surely?

I was involved in sport at university. The rugby boys were often very silly but were usually fundamentally decent. That can't be said for all the men's sports teams.

And it appears to be getting worse not better in higher education
exepose.com/2020/10/08/tackling-university-cultures-underlying-issue-of-sexism/

If the exposure to choking and anal sex normalised men into thinking these are everyday, expected acts, then surely they are now being normalised into sexualising EVERY woman in their lives and feeling entitled to take what they want.

Yes I get really pissed off when women on MN say they have no issue with their male partners watching porn because like it or not when a man watches porn it will alter his views on ALL women and it is all women who will have to deal with the consequences of that.

I do agree with the view that you can tell a lot about a man by how he behaves with regard to sex. But obviously that's not a practical solution!

@Russellbrandshair makes SUCH a good point. It’s so unusual for men to be kind and sweet and have no ulterior motive that when they do they are applauded and lauded as being amazing and so nice.

I walk all my friends home from the pub, and they me. And we’ve often walk lone women home. We don’t have articles written about us.

Stop seeing men as aliens. They have the same feelings as you, even if they may have been conditioned to process and express them differently

If men have the same feelings as me, how about THEY stop seeing women as objects, as serfs, as people to dominate and control and threaten and rape and treat like shit.

Conditioning only goes so far as an excuse when these men with the same feelings as me also have the same critical thinking skills and same choices as me not to be violent or controlling or patronising or threatening.

It’s just more pandering to the poor, misunderstood men who can’t help themselves, unless it comes to behaving properly around people they know could physically or professionally punish them for their actions.

But I do wish young girls were taught to be more assertive, take less BS and have the same confidence a lot of young boys are instilled with (to take risks etc). The next generation of women will hopefully feel a lot more on power with men.

I certainly agree with this!

And I LOVE the idea of twisting a bloke's ear - publicly - if he touches you.

Many years ago as a child of about 10 I took my small brother and sister to the pictures - a cartoon matinee. There were very few people in and an older man came and sat next to me and started to touch me (his hand "accidentally" fell onto my leg). I was terrified and didn't know what to do - I spent the entire film shrinking into the corner of my seat to get as far away from him as I could.

I don't know why I didn't scream out - conditioning I expect (also I was from an abusive background - this wasn't a new thing - you just "put up an shut up")

I have often thought since that what I would have loved to have done was get tight hold of his little finger and bend it suddenly back and break it. I mightn't have succeeded - but it would have hurt the dirty bugger!

Sorry you're surrounded by cunts OP. Fwiw, the vast majority of men I know are lovely, and the ones that aren't are irritating for reasons not related to them being men.

I have a wonderful husband, father, brothers, grandfathers, uncles and male friends. Maybe one day I'll have a wonderful son too.

You’re very fortunate and I’m happy for you.

Pure anecdata. But I thought my grandfather was a lovely man until after he died when I found out he was sacked from the school he worked at for getting too touchy with the young girls. I also thought my dad was a lovely man, but I found out a few years ago that he has cheated on my mother with prostitutes - and other women - for years.

I’m sure the girls who were the subject of the Warwick rape chat scandal thought their male friends were lovely male friends. Until they found the pages and pages of ‘banter’ about raping them, beating them up and urinating on them.

Perhaps all the men you know are lovely. But remember that misogyny often doesn’t exist on the surface, and you haven’t seen their internet histories.

she should have given them money when they asked and to stop being unkind to them

Ah! The "Be Kind" cr*p which is fed to women from the cradle.

No-one ever tells men to "be kind".

"Being kind" is one of the things that allows men to treat women so badly.

I hope you DD is okay SmallClanger - she shouldn't have to put up with that rubbish!

www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/it-s-shocking-how-men-have-driven-women-away-from-exercising-in-public-1.4422925

I read this the other day just after watching Bureau of magical things with teen daughter - said to her it was most unrealsitic thing in it was that a teen girl - in this case beofre she knew of magic - would go running into deserted woods at night by herself with ear buds in - it was jarringly unrealistic.

This morning over breakfast I was casually discussing with my 10 and 11 yo DDs how women die by being polite and quiet. That you should never go with someone who has a threatening vibe to somewhere more quiet. If needs be pretend to faint in the middle of the pavement and make a fuss, and get attention on you. Run to a busy street not a quiet alley to hide.

That they should listen to their gut and look out for red flags. If you decline an invitation to share your phone number, or go on a date and the man does anything other than say 'ok then' that is a red flag. Not respecting your first soft 'no' is a red flag.

A few years ago after a nasty rape/murder it was on the radio news when we were in the car. DH reached out and turned it off, I reached out turned it back on. I said to him that there is no way they'll be going on any kind of first date as a teenager without knowing a lot of things he'll hate them having to know; but there it is a girl I used to babysit was raped and murdered at 19yo by the guy who was 'walking her home safely' from a nightclub. His mates and hers all know they'd gone off together so it really wasn't hard for the police to find him. Too late for her though

@SchadenfreudePersonified

If you are not angry, you are not paying attention...

Unfortunately the reason many women don't pay attention is because this generalised misogyny is so all-pervading that it's all about us from our cradles.

We don't notoce it n the same way that we don't notice the very air we breathe - it just IS!

And I confess that I was one of these. And then I was forced wake up to it by a particular and horrible incident - and now my eyes have been opened I can't see anything BUT contempt for women everywhere.

It's socialised and it's institutionalised and it's in great danger of erasing the female sex altogether. That's why I'm fighting self-ID with regard to gender every inch of the way - and fighting men's demands to enter women's spaces under the guise of "Transwomen are women".

It's perfidious and dangerous.

Absolutely agree.

OP, I am old enough to remember The Two Ronnies comedy on BBC 1 in the '70's, they did a mini-series on the programme "The Worm that Turned" about women taking over the world, some of them dressed like gothic dominatix, and both Ronnies were playing men who were forced to dress in women's clothes and do all the menial jobs like housework. They came up with hapless plans to escape, but the Women always foiled their plots. I don't know whether some excerpts are still available to view, maybe on You Tube or similar? The sketch was hilarious, but do you know it could, and might happen, the truth is stranger than fiction !

Few would disagree that men dominate Western society, politically and financially

Few would disagree that a minority of men still hold very backwards views, and a very small minority are capable of aggression against women.

The problem is what to do about it.

More anecdata here: I notice in Ireland small groups of boys and girls seem to often walk together to and from school. Whereas in England its very uncommon. Thats just my observation anyway. Surely, more normalised mixing and teamwork from a young age is one thing we ought to encourage. We need to stop the "othering" from a young age.

I notice in Ireland small groups of boys and girls seem to often walk together to and from school. Whereas in England its very uncommon. Thats just my observation anyway. Surely, more normalised mixing and teamwork from a young age is one thing we ought to encourage. We need to stop the "othering" from a young age.

That's interesting - you are right in that (certainly when they get to 11 or so) boys and girls split into same sex groups on England.

But having said that - misogyny is very much alive and thriving in Ireland, so perhaps it doesn't help.

@exPR

Stop seeing men as aliens. They have the same feelings as you, even if they may have been conditioned to process and express them differently

If men have the same feelings as me, how about THEY stop seeing women as objects, as serfs, as people to dominate and control and threaten and rape and treat like shit.

Conditioning only goes so far as an excuse when these men with the same feelings as me also have the same critical thinking skills and same choices as me not to be violent or controlling or patronising or threatening.

It’s just more pandering to the poor, misunderstood men who can’t help themselves, unless it comes to behaving properly around people they know could physically or professionally punish them for their actions.

Preach! 👏

@CoalCraft

Sorry you're surrounded by cunts OP. Fwiw, the vast majority of men I know are lovely, and the ones that aren't are irritating for reasons not related to them being men.

I have a wonderful husband, father, brothers, grandfathers, uncles and male friends. Maybe one day I'll have a wonderful son too.

Lovely sentiment, but not exactly the mood we're going for here.