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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel so hurt and disrespected?

156 replies

Raebo · 07/12/2020 14:47

My partner is a Muslim, I am not...I was raised Christian to an extent, but I don't identify with any religion. I very much feel that trying to be a kind, decent human being just because it's the right thing to do, is enough for me. I spent years denying that there was a God, but now I'm a bit older and understand myself and my life a little more, I like to believe there's something greater than us, and it might as well be called "God", but nothing's set in stone as far as I'm concerned.

I've been honest about this since before we got together, and he's happy I feel some spirituality and entirely accepts my beliefs and understands my journey to reaching them.

We've been engaged for around 18 months. His mum and sister have put a lot of pressure on us to get married, but after I explained to my partner why I wanted to wait until we could afford a wedding, and that it's very important to me, and my family, he said we would wait until we could have the day I wanted. To be clear, I just wanted a small gathering of close friends and family, in a place of significance to us. Yes, I wanted a dress, and yes, I wanted flowers and a cake...but that really is the extent of it.

I have been kept a secret from my partners community (the members of his mosque). The fact we are unmarried and in a relationship is frowned upon, and that we're living together is apparently terrible. His mum wrote to the leader of their community asking for "permission" for us to marry (I don't agree with the requirement to do this, but I understand it's the done thing and shows respect and so I was happy for this to happen) however, in order for us to be granted permission, I would need to be "of the book" and so would need to be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian. She wrote that I was Christian; she also told them that I was considering converting to Islam...as I say, I'm not Christian, nor do I identify with any religion. I felt really disrespected, and actually felt it was quite humiliating...like not only am I not good enough for people to know about me, but that I'm also not good enough as a non-religious person, and that even if I was, I'd still be the "wrong" kind. It really hurt, but I shrugged it off and just hoped we'd be granted permission, so that they would be happy. A year later and she's still had no response, and so no permission.

A couple of months ago, we found out that I'm pregnant. It was unplanned, but we're very excited, we've talked about having a family since we met. I'm feeling really rough with the pregnancy, constantly nauseous and exhausted, I have high blood pressure and I'm already incredibly stressed as my brother is currently very ill, so in my mind, ideally we'd wait until the baby arrives, allow me to recover, then get married.

However, getting us married is now the absolute fixation of not only my MIL-to be, but my fiance also. He's in such a rush to get us to a registry office and just get it done, so that his mum and sister don't get any hassle from the community and so that they can celebrate and tell everyone.
He told me that we have two options, to get married quickly, so that his mum and sister can be a part of everything, or to wait until the baby is born, as would be my preference, but distance ourselves from them so they aren't in a difficult position.
Obviously this made me feel absolutely awful, and I really couldn't do something that would hurt them and cause them problems in their community, I know how important it is to them.
The other part of me is absolutely livid that I'm having my day taken from me for people who would consider me unworthy of marrying my partner, and that would shun my family for our actions, and that instead of just accepting that his family would choose the community over us and saying "suit yourself", we're bending to their will, so that they can "celebrate" and not be so ashamed of us. I should also note here, that they won't even be attending, because we haven't got permission to marry. It's so confusing!!

So now I'm faced with a 20 minute marriage ceremony in a registry office, whilst pregnant, instead of a wedding. I'm honestly distraught. I know I've agreed to this, but I really felt like I had no choice. I know he just doesn't understand how much of a slap in the face this is for me, or my family, because I haven't laboured the point as I wouldn't want to make things even more difficult for him. His family's commitment to their culture and community and constant nagging and guilt tripping, has already made things difficult enough for him.
He knows I'm upset, but I think in his mind I'm just gutted I don't get a party and to show off. I don't think he understands that this is something more than that...that my family tie a lot of importance to weddings, it's like a mark of respect for the bride, and her parents, and that she gets her day and is celebrated, and the fact she's found love is celebrated. It's not just about having a party or showing off, it's about respect and love. Being marched into a registry office just because you're pregnant is such a kick in the teeth, I feel like I'm being punished for having a baby.
But like I say, I don't want to cause him more stress than he's already under, he's not handling it well as it is, so it feels unfair for me to explain any of this to him.

Am I being unreasonable to feel so hurt and disrespected? Is this just a case of "pull yourself together"? I feel like it probably is...

OP posts:
teateateateateamoretea · 08/12/2020 12:42

We did hope we could have a nikkah, however, we've not been granted permission to marry, and they would require us to be married before we could have a nikkah. It's all very confusing to me, and my partner feels the same way. At the end of the day we can't really win, so we can only do our best

I don't understand why you are confused...you are not allowed to marry a Muslim man if you are kafir (not of the book). It's that simple. His religion does not allow you to marry. You won't get permission unless you say you are christian or you revert.

yorkshirepuddddiiing · 08/12/2020 12:43

I don't have any advice I've never been in a situation like this but I really feel for you.

I would find it very hard to accept this level of interference and influence from 'the community'. I would not be interested in anything that anybody not involved in our lives had to say.

His parents/family have a right to an opinion on their sons choices but ultimately it's him who should get the final say on what he wants (marriage now or to wait). But then it's down to you to agree with him and go along with it, or put your foot down and say no and wait. It's a decision for the two of you nobody else.

You need to have an honest and open conversation with your partner about marriage and both be prepared to compromise. Everyone else needs to but out.

It will also be worth talking about how you both ideally want to raise your child and ensure you are both on the same page, as this really could just be the tip of the iceberg.

Simplyunacceptable · 08/12/2020 12:48

I’m an Atheist but come from a religious family. You have to accept that marrying and procreating with someone of a different faith is going to entail a fair amount of compromise and understanding. Of course his family were always going to be upset at the notion of a baby being born out of wedlock. To you that probably seems bonkers in the 21st century (and I agree with you) but it’s still important to them.

I’m not really sure what you expected. You knew he had faith and by the sounds of it quite strong faith (so not like some ‘Christians’ who only go to church for weddings and funerals for example) so clashes like this were always bound to occur.

KleinBlue · 08/12/2020 12:51

@teateateateateamoretea

We did hope we could have a nikkah, however, we've not been granted permission to marry, and they would require us to be married before we could have a nikkah. It's all very confusing to me, and my partner feels the same way. At the end of the day we can't really win, so we can only do our best

I don't understand why you are confused...you are not allowed to marry a Muslim man if you are kafir (not of the book). It's that simple. His religion does not allow you to marry. You won't get permission unless you say you are christian or you revert.

The OP's partner's mother lied in her permission letter to her imam and said the OP was a Christian, though, so the refusal of the permission presumably doesn't stem from that?
WutheringTights · 08/12/2020 13:03

Just to come at it from a different point of view, I'd always want to be married before having a child, for the protections it gives. If you take maternity leave or go part time, you will need the protection of marriage if you later split. Also, why does a wedding before the baby arrives have to be a 20 minute register office job? You said you only wanted a thing wedding anyway, why can you do a version of that in six months time?

Laserbird16 · 08/12/2020 13:22

What @WutheringTights said. I'd get married purely for the legal protections too.

That said, a marriage is a joining of families and if you're having a child, his family are now yours too. The wedding is one day (and can be done later when Covid and finances allow) the marriage will hopefully be forever.

You and your partner need to get into the other stuff like your stance on circumcision etc asap though. Don't enter into years of skirmishes over foreseeable issues.

Woewoewoejoy · 08/12/2020 13:33

OP you don't need permission from an imam to do a nikkah and you don't need to be legally married. In Islam a man can have 4 wives (nikkah) that's a debate for another day! But how would that be possible if you need to be legally married.

We just told the imam we wanted to marry and booked a date with 2 witnesses. We got a piece of paper signed to say it happened. He never asked if one of us was or wasn't Muslim. An imam would rather do the nikkah than not do it and the person then commit a 'sin' if you see what I mean. I think your MIL has made up this thing about needing permission etc.... Fwiw I converted a few years before we married. But it's something you have to want not be pushed into doing. But you can have a nikkah OP.

Woewoewoejoy · 08/12/2020 13:34

Or as they want you to legally marry first can you not do that then you are legally protected anyway then have a nikkah after and then have a celebration that's not of a faith after? Maybe a vowel renewal?

AndcalloffChristmas · 08/12/2020 13:38

He should have been more careful - or not had sex at all - if it was such a big issue for him.

I can see this having problems OP into the future - I’d want to take steps to nip the nagging and pressure in the bud now or they’ll be wanting a say in how you raise your children for ever.

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 13:42

@AndcalloffChristmas

He should have been more careful - or not had sex at all - if it was such a big issue for him.

Why? Confused What has he done wrong? He's told OP they can marry nor or later, but if they marry later, they may need to distance themselves from his mum and sister until they get married.

So sounds like he is trying to keep OP and his family happy.

So many people are just trigger happy to wag their fingers at Muslims for being human and then in the next breath saying Muslims are too dogmatic.

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 13:42

*now or later

KleinBlue · 08/12/2020 13:59

[quote tallduckandhandsome]@AndcalloffChristmas

He should have been more careful - or not had sex at all - if it was such a big issue for him.

Why? Confused What has he done wrong? He's told OP they can marry nor or later, but if they marry later, they may need to distance themselves from his mum and sister until they get married.

So sounds like he is trying to keep OP and his family happy.

So many people are just trigger happy to wag their fingers at Muslims for being human and then in the next breath saying Muslims are too dogmatic.[/quote]
But isn't that precisely the problem here? The OP's partner 'humanly' shagged and impregnated a non-Muslim woman without being married to her, yet went along with keeping this a secret from his community, and now he and his family are subjecting her to 'dogmatic' pressure to get married asap when she doesn't want to.

AndcalloffChristmas · 08/12/2020 14:03

He seems to be bowing to the pressure / trying to keep the community happy, rather than sticking up for the OP, is what he’s done wrong.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 08/12/2020 14:25

The decision I've made will stay the same, but he should, and they should, understand that this doesn't feel like a small sacrifice to me, it's something of huge significance.

Be careful. Understanding that you have willingly made one huge sacrifice, they may take it for granted that you are ready to make many more.

What has your DP sacrificed so far?

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 14:53

But isn't that precisely the problem here? The OP's partner 'humanly' shagged and impregnated a non-Muslim woman without being married to her, yet went along with keeping this a secret from his community, and now he and his family are subjecting her to 'dogmatic' pressure to get married asap when she doesn't want to.

But she's not under pressure. He's told her they don't need to get married. He can't help what his community think. There's no need to paint him as the villain of the piece.

teateateateateamoretea · 08/12/2020 14:54

OP you don't need permission from an imam to do a nikkah and you don't need to be legally married. In Islam a man can have 4 wives (nikkah) that's a debate for another day! But how would that be possible if you need to be legally married

You do need the consent of an imam...how do you think they will solemnise the nikkah otherwise? And he can onlyh have 4 wives with the prior permission of existing wives (and often written permission from the relevant authority), and none of them would be legally recognised in the UK or EU.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2020 15:33

What has your DP sacrificed so far?

This seems a reasonable question ...

Macncheeseballs · 08/12/2020 15:46

You only get married once, hopefully, do it your way

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 15:54

What has your DP sacrificed so far?

He's agreed no marriage yet, agreed no circumcision if baby boy. He is compormising.

Stonecrop · 08/12/2020 15:56

No ones going to judge you for not having a ‘big day’ in the middle of COVID.

Aprilx · 08/12/2020 16:11

I think your DP and his family have tried to show you some respect. They have accepted you living together themselves even if they have hidden it from the community, so it is a compromise. Your DP has given you the option of marrying now or waiting but if you choose to wait he has explained that you and him might need to distance yourself from the family and community, this is also a compromise. I haven’t seen that you have made any real compromises at all.

I am not Muslim or in a relationship with a Muslim, but it is not a secret that it is a fairly strict religion in practice. Whilst I don’t share those views, I don’t really understand why you appear shocked to find for example that it is “apparently” terrible to live together without being married in the Muslim community, how could you not know this? A serious conversation over how you would manage the relationship is long overdue.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 08/12/2020 16:43

I can't really take people that let region rule their lives like this seriously. Your dp went along with this, he had as much a part to play in this pregnancy as you, yet now he is basically guilt tripping you into getting married before you want to be married. It's controlling bullshit if you ask me. Tell him that's fine, you will need to pull back from his family. They don't get to decide how you live your life, even if he is letting them decide how he lives his. Fuck that.

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 16:53

There's a lot of double standards on this thread with people berating the fiance for pre-marriage pregnancy but no judgement of OP.

Woewoewoejoy · 08/12/2020 17:05

@teateateateateamoretea I know but that's not this thread is about. It's irrelevant. I was just stating if you can have nikkah with 4 wives then why can't you do nikkah now... And legal later. The imam has to agree to marry you but you don't need permission. they check with you that you are happy etc before doing it. As do most vicars...

Muckish · 08/12/2020 17:06

@tallduckandhandsome

There's a lot of double standards on this thread with people berating the fiance for pre-marriage pregnancy but no judgement of OP.
But the OP isn't religious, @tallduckandhandsome -- she hasn't signed up to a faith that says that pre-marital chastity is obligatory.