AIBU to feel so hurt and disrespected?

[Raebo]

My partner is a Muslim, I am not...I was raised Christian to an extent, but I don't identify with any religion. I very much feel that trying to be a kind, decent human being just because it's the right thing to do, is enough for me. I spent years denying that there was a God, but now I'm a bit older and understand myself and my life a little more, I like to believe there's something greater than us, and it might as well be called "God", but nothing's set in stone as far as I'm concerned.

I've been honest about this since before we got together, and he's happy I feel some spirituality and entirely accepts my beliefs and understands my journey to reaching them.

We've been engaged for around 18 months. His mum and sister have put a lot of pressure on us to get married, but after I explained to my partner why I wanted to wait until we could afford a wedding, and that it's very important to me, and my family, he said we would wait until we could have the day I wanted. To be clear, I just wanted a small gathering of close friends and family, in a place of significance to us. Yes, I wanted a dress, and yes, I wanted flowers and a cake...but that really is the extent of it.

I have been kept a secret from my partners community (the members of his mosque). The fact we are unmarried and in a relationship is frowned upon, and that we're living together is apparently terrible. His mum wrote to the leader of their community asking for "permission" for us to marry (I don't agree with the requirement to do this, but I understand it's the done thing and shows respect and so I was happy for this to happen) however, in order for us to be granted permission, I would need to be "of the book" and so would need to be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian. She wrote that I was Christian; she also told them that I was considering converting to Islam...as I say, I'm not Christian, nor do I identify with any religion. I felt really disrespected, and actually felt it was quite humiliating...like not only am I not good enough for people to know about me, but that I'm also not good enough as a non-religious person, and that even if I was, I'd still be the "wrong" kind. It really hurt, but I shrugged it off and just hoped we'd be granted permission, so that they would be happy. A year later and she's still had no response, and so no permission.

A couple of months ago, we found out that I'm pregnant. It was unplanned, but we're very excited, we've talked about having a family since we met. I'm feeling really rough with the pregnancy, constantly nauseous and exhausted, I have high blood pressure and I'm already incredibly stressed as my brother is currently very ill, so in my mind, ideally we'd wait until the baby arrives, allow me to recover, then get married.

However, getting us married is now the absolute fixation of not only my MIL-to be, but my fiance also. He's in such a rush to get us to a registry office and just get it done, so that his mum and sister don't get any hassle from the community and so that they can celebrate and tell everyone.
He told me that we have two options, to get married quickly, so that his mum and sister can be a part of everything, or to wait until the baby is born, as would be my preference, but distance ourselves from them so they aren't in a difficult position.
Obviously this made me feel absolutely awful, and I really couldn't do something that would hurt them and cause them problems in their community, I know how important it is to them.
The other part of me is absolutely livid that I'm having my day taken from me for people who would consider me unworthy of marrying my partner, and that would shun my family for our actions, and that instead of just accepting that his family would choose the community over us and saying "suit yourself", we're bending to their will, so that they can "celebrate" and not be so ashamed of us. I should also note here, that they won't even be attending, because we haven't got permission to marry. It's so confusing!!

So now I'm faced with a 20 minute marriage ceremony in a registry office, whilst pregnant, instead of a wedding. I'm honestly distraught. I know I've agreed to this, but I really felt like I had no choice. I know he just doesn't understand how much of a slap in the face this is for me, or my family, because I haven't laboured the point as I wouldn't want to make things even more difficult for him. His family's commitment to their culture and community and constant nagging and guilt tripping, has already made things difficult enough for him.
He knows I'm upset, but I think in his mind I'm just gutted I don't get a party and to show off. I don't think he understands that this is something more than that...that my family tie a lot of importance to weddings, it's like a mark of respect for the bride, and her parents, and that she gets her day and is celebrated, and the fact she's found love is celebrated. It's not just about having a party or showing off, it's about respect and love. Being marched into a registry office just because you're pregnant is such a kick in the teeth, I feel like I'm being punished for having a baby.
But like I say, I don't want to cause him more stress than he's already under, he's not handling it well as it is, so it feels unfair for me to explain any of this to him.

Am I being unreasonable to feel so hurt and disrespected? Is this just a case of "pull yourself together"? I feel like it probably is...

I agree with PPs who have said that this is 'just the beginning'. I've actually heard of families pressuring their sons to get married to a girl of their choosing and they turn their backs on their non-Muslim partners and children etc.
If they're quite conservative I'd take it as a peace offering that they're strongly suggesting you'll get married. As this is a religious belief for him I'd get married now if I was in your position and then plan a non-religious wedding celebration when you're ready.

Also, just remembered that it wouldn't surprise me if you were to get married and the had the baby and people asked about 'timing' they'd lie and say the baby was born early! Be prepared for all the cultural drama- probably worth having lots of conversations about how your child will be raised. Might give you an insight into your partner you didn't have before.

I get so frustrated with things like this, your partner has chosen to go against the beliefs of his religion and community, but it’s you that’s got to give up what you want

You need toexplain that to him, that it’s his choice to live with you outside of his religion and it’s not fair that he expects you to give up on what you want and what it means to you when getting married

Then see if you can find a compromise, perhaps not at a registry office, but at a small hotel, that will still allow you the dress and immediate close family there, with a larger party once the baby is here and COVID restrictions are over

We've discussed how we'll raise our children extensively.
They won't be raised Muslim, but will be taught all aspects of their dads beliefs, along with all of mine, and my family's Christianity. There won't be any circumcision, should we have a boy, as it's not a religious obligation, and for the aforementioned reason of our children not being Muslim. We're more than happy for them to learn about both cultures. And we'll be celebrating the Eids and Christmas, as we already do.

I love and respect his family very much, however, I think my own beliefs get overlooked just because I don't have a defined religion...I'm not sure that's fair.

My DP adores me. I know full well that if I told him exactly how I'm feeling, he'd turn his back on his family and community. But that's absolutely not what I want. I want him to be surrounded by his family, and to hold onto his faith as it's something very important to him. I want him to be happy, I love him.

My DP has not done anything nasty or underhand here, he's been wonderful, he's just between a rock and hard place. And I don't feel his family have done anything to purposely be unkind either. They're lovely people, and I care about them very much, and have entirely considered the pressure they're under, which is why I've agreed to do what they ask. I'm just very unhappy with the role the community are playing. It's a struggle for me to understand how people who don't have anything to do with us on a day to day basis, have such control over how we live our lives.

We didn't have a wedding during the time we've been engaged because we've had a lot of other personal issues to deal with. We didn't just delay it like it didn't matter, or like we weren't bothered, or because I was being too precious about the wedding; we had other things that we had to take care of and get through first. It's been a very painful couple of years for us.

Just to be clear also, my partner did not keep me a secret from his family. He introduced me within the first few weeks of us dating, just as I introduced him to mine. His family kept me a secret from their community.

But like I say, I don't want to cause him more stress than he's already under, he's not handling it well as it is, so it feels unfair for me to explain any of this to him.

Am I being unreasonable to feel so hurt and disrespected? Is this just a case of "pull yourself together"?

I think what's unreasonable is that you are planning on marrying someone you aren't prepared to be honest with. What kind of a married life are you setting yourselves up for when something that's so important gets swept under the carpet? How are you intending coping with all the other cultural clashes that will arise over the course of the decades while you bring up a child together?

For goodness sake, stop avoiding being responsible for the marriage you are creating. You need to express yourself and your needs and your expectations clearly too, not acquiesce to others and seethe inside. In one, two, ten years' time you will be in a marriage you agreed to, feeling like you can blame it on his family won't make things any better, so talk to your DP and work out what will suit the two of you the best, not just him and his family.

YABU to be so offended and hurt when you knew what you were getting involved with

We've discussed how we'll raise our children extensively.

But you discussed marriage too, didn't you? And you were going to get married "with permission" (which, even so, required his family to pretend you were someone you weren't) except things changed and they now have a cultural need for you to get married in a different way, a way which also rides roughshod over who you are.

What else is going to change and mean that to save face your carefully discussed plans are going to trampled under foot in the race to ensure your DP's family's community is appeased? And how are you going to cope with that when you're already set the precedent that you will subsume your cultural expectations under his family's?

You need to respect yourself first. Start making some tough decisions on this basis otherwise you will be railroaded into not only the marriage but other decisions also. Step away graciously while you can.

You feel disrespected. They feel disrespected. Sulks all round, eh?

Meh. Find a compromise just like all other adults do. It isn't just about you. You are not listening to your fiance's wishes either, in your rush to blame his family.

I agree with those that have said pick your battles. Whenever you marry into another culture there will be some concessions and negotiations you both will have to make. And likewise for your partner - I’m sure you have insisted on ways of doing things before which he was uncomfortable about but agreed because he loves you.

The reality is- you wanted to get married anyway. A registry now achieves that purpose while not putting your fiancé in a very awkward position.

If I was you I’d do the registry before baby and a big “wedding” afterwards exactly the way you want it to be.

I think what you're seeing now is a taster of how it will be down the line. You can discuss at length as much as you want about how you'll live your life, but you haven't accounted for the pressures he will face from his community that in turn will be placed on you. Hence his change in mind about the marriage/wedding. He knows you'd never ask him to choose between family and you, and so by token his family will get their way eventually.

You have been very very naive to think his love for you will come over his loyalty to his family and community. Certainly not where your child is concerned. He knows you don't have a strong belief system of your own and so will always guilt you into letting him have his way raising your child using his family pressure as a stick. This happens so often. And will wear you down to the point you don't argue anymore.

The ceremony is the least of your problems. Once you're married, you'll have even less of a say in day to day life. Please take off the rose tinted glasses and very carefully consider just how easily influenced he REALLY is by his family. Not what he tells you but by his actions. Then make your decision whether to marry him or not.

The fact you're already feeling so much pressure over just a wedding says it all. If he really put you first, he'd have resolved it with his family already, standing up for you, instead of pretending to let you have a choice.

You absolutely do not know with any certainty he would turn his back on family and community for you... all you know is at the moment he's placed you in the awkward position of selecting your beliefs vs his family.

What happens when your child is involved and they have opinions how they should dress, how they should conduct themselves etc. How hard is your partner going to fight them to honour the agreements you previously made on how you'd raise your children? Consider that too.

I care about them very much, and have entirely considered the pressure they're under, which is why I've agreed to do what they ask

So how will that work with decisions such as not bringing up children as muslims, not circumcising boys and more?
It's great that you've both discussed these issues, but I guarantee the family will not be happy and that you'll be pitched straight back into pressure and a perhaps even a post-marriage change of mind from your DP

They're fully entitled to their views of course, but not to expect that others will automatically bend to them - which is why I'd think very carefully about going ahead with this at all

Wake up OP.

All this cool and breezy stuff hes giving you, no circumcision if it's a boy, no religion, no head covering if it's a girl.

If he was that relaxed and forward thinking you wouldnt be in the situation you are now with something as simple as a wedding.

Like fuck is he going to be chilled about it all later on. Look at what he and the family are failing against now, consider it a taste of things to come. Think.

*railing

Surprised that you didn’t realise that a child out of wedlock would be a scandal. I would have a serious think about your future. Just a word of warning, I married someone from a similar culture, did all the right things but it still wasn’t good enough. Family/‘community’ interference was day in day out, lasted 15 years. Prepare to be criticised continuously by a bunch of hypocritical bigots whatever you do (not that I’m bitter!!).

I don’t get why people bash religion ..religion is pure..
it is people who are flawed ..

You guys can make your relationship work but it is going to be a struggle ..
As in type of relationship there will have to be compromises and choosing battles..

But if the core of your relationship is strong you can make it till the end of time/death do you part etc ..

I am curious.. Are you atheist? Spiritualist?You keep saying your family is christian but you don’t have the same belief ..

Lastly please ladies do not get involved with people of other religions or beliefs/ cultures if you & your partner are not willing to compromise.. it is a recipe for disaster ..

• any type/kind of relationship

He's emotionally blackmailing you.

Don't bring it up, reiterate you don't want to get married without your big day. I bet you he starts piling on pressure in a different way as the birth get a closer.

My husband is Muslim. We have been married for nearly 20 years. In all that time I have never met a Muslim man who thought circumcision was unimportant.

"My DP adores me. I know full well that if I told him exactly how I'm feeling, he'd turn his back on his family and community. But that's absolutely not what I want. I want him to be surrounded by his family, and to hold onto his faith as it's something very important to him. I want him to be happy, I love him."

You also have to love yourself. You set a clear boundary and now, on paper, you're halfway to converting religion and would do anything to stop his family shunning him. Well, that's nice, but his family shunning him isn't your fault or your problem to fix.

OP your culture is just as important. Sounds like pressure is coming from his own family not him. Discuss what the implications are for your children if the females in his life will rule your home and children.

@amicissimma

" he just doesn't understand how much of a slap in the face this is for me, or my family,"

But you wanting to have the baby without being married is a slap in the face for him and his family.

Either way, somebody gets a 'face slap'.

This type of situation will arise again and again. As a PP says, there's circumcision, head covering, etc, also a wealth of issues about bringing up the child in his faith, education in general, how you live, how involved the inlaws are, etc, etc. Many of these issues arise in families with similar cultural/faith backgrounds, but differences just add more complexity to the mix.

I'd suggest having a good discussion with your DP about how you both see the future and what your expectations are about how your family life will look. Leave the wedding to one side and consider the marriage.

^^In buckets! You either put your foot down now or accept that it’ll always be their way.

@Raebo

We've discussed how we'll raise our children extensively. They won't be raised Muslim, but will be taught all aspects of their dads beliefs, along with all of mine, and my family's Christianity. There won't be any circumcision, should we have a boy, as it's not a religious obligation, and for the aforementioned reason of our children not being Muslim. We're more than happy for them to learn about both cultures. And we'll be celebrating the Eids and Christmas, as we already do.

I love and respect his family very much, however, I think my own beliefs get overlooked just because I don't have a defined religion...I'm not sure that's fair.

My DP adores me. I know full well that if I told him exactly how I'm feeling, he'd turn his back on his family and community. But that's absolutely not what I want. I want him to be surrounded by his family, and to hold onto his faith as it's something very important to him. I want him to be happy, I love him.

My DP has not done anything nasty or underhand here, he's been wonderful, he's just between a rock and hard place. And I don't feel his family have done anything to purposely be unkind either. They're lovely people, and I care about them very much, and have entirely considered the pressure they're under, which is why I've agreed to do what they ask. I'm just very unhappy with the role the community are playing. It's a struggle for me to understand how people who don't have anything to do with us on a day to day basis, have such control over how we live our lives.

We didn't have a wedding during the time we've been engaged because we've had a lot of other personal issues to deal with. We didn't just delay it like it didn't matter, or like we weren't bothered, or because I was being too precious about the wedding; we had other things that we had to take care of and get through first. It's been a very painful couple of years for us.

Just to be clear also, my partner did not keep me a secret from his family. He introduced me within the first few weeks of us dating, just as I introduced him to mine. His family kept me a secret from their community.

OP have you discussed what will happen if his family and the community don't agree with how you want to raise your child? Will be stick by your plans under those circumstances?