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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel so hurt and disrespected?

156 replies

Raebo · 07/12/2020 14:47

My partner is a Muslim, I am not...I was raised Christian to an extent, but I don't identify with any religion. I very much feel that trying to be a kind, decent human being just because it's the right thing to do, is enough for me. I spent years denying that there was a God, but now I'm a bit older and understand myself and my life a little more, I like to believe there's something greater than us, and it might as well be called "God", but nothing's set in stone as far as I'm concerned.

I've been honest about this since before we got together, and he's happy I feel some spirituality and entirely accepts my beliefs and understands my journey to reaching them.

We've been engaged for around 18 months. His mum and sister have put a lot of pressure on us to get married, but after I explained to my partner why I wanted to wait until we could afford a wedding, and that it's very important to me, and my family, he said we would wait until we could have the day I wanted. To be clear, I just wanted a small gathering of close friends and family, in a place of significance to us. Yes, I wanted a dress, and yes, I wanted flowers and a cake...but that really is the extent of it.

I have been kept a secret from my partners community (the members of his mosque). The fact we are unmarried and in a relationship is frowned upon, and that we're living together is apparently terrible. His mum wrote to the leader of their community asking for "permission" for us to marry (I don't agree with the requirement to do this, but I understand it's the done thing and shows respect and so I was happy for this to happen) however, in order for us to be granted permission, I would need to be "of the book" and so would need to be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian. She wrote that I was Christian; she also told them that I was considering converting to Islam...as I say, I'm not Christian, nor do I identify with any religion. I felt really disrespected, and actually felt it was quite humiliating...like not only am I not good enough for people to know about me, but that I'm also not good enough as a non-religious person, and that even if I was, I'd still be the "wrong" kind. It really hurt, but I shrugged it off and just hoped we'd be granted permission, so that they would be happy. A year later and she's still had no response, and so no permission.

A couple of months ago, we found out that I'm pregnant. It was unplanned, but we're very excited, we've talked about having a family since we met. I'm feeling really rough with the pregnancy, constantly nauseous and exhausted, I have high blood pressure and I'm already incredibly stressed as my brother is currently very ill, so in my mind, ideally we'd wait until the baby arrives, allow me to recover, then get married.

However, getting us married is now the absolute fixation of not only my MIL-to be, but my fiance also. He's in such a rush to get us to a registry office and just get it done, so that his mum and sister don't get any hassle from the community and so that they can celebrate and tell everyone.
He told me that we have two options, to get married quickly, so that his mum and sister can be a part of everything, or to wait until the baby is born, as would be my preference, but distance ourselves from them so they aren't in a difficult position.
Obviously this made me feel absolutely awful, and I really couldn't do something that would hurt them and cause them problems in their community, I know how important it is to them.
The other part of me is absolutely livid that I'm having my day taken from me for people who would consider me unworthy of marrying my partner, and that would shun my family for our actions, and that instead of just accepting that his family would choose the community over us and saying "suit yourself", we're bending to their will, so that they can "celebrate" and not be so ashamed of us. I should also note here, that they won't even be attending, because we haven't got permission to marry. It's so confusing!!

So now I'm faced with a 20 minute marriage ceremony in a registry office, whilst pregnant, instead of a wedding. I'm honestly distraught. I know I've agreed to this, but I really felt like I had no choice. I know he just doesn't understand how much of a slap in the face this is for me, or my family, because I haven't laboured the point as I wouldn't want to make things even more difficult for him. His family's commitment to their culture and community and constant nagging and guilt tripping, has already made things difficult enough for him.
He knows I'm upset, but I think in his mind I'm just gutted I don't get a party and to show off. I don't think he understands that this is something more than that...that my family tie a lot of importance to weddings, it's like a mark of respect for the bride, and her parents, and that she gets her day and is celebrated, and the fact she's found love is celebrated. It's not just about having a party or showing off, it's about respect and love. Being marched into a registry office just because you're pregnant is such a kick in the teeth, I feel like I'm being punished for having a baby.
But like I say, I don't want to cause him more stress than he's already under, he's not handling it well as it is, so it feels unfair for me to explain any of this to him.

Am I being unreasonable to feel so hurt and disrespected? Is this just a case of "pull yourself together"? I feel like it probably is...

OP posts:
KleinBlue · 07/12/2020 22:48

OP, I can’t help feeling you’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics in order to make this pressure come from an anonymous, hostile group called ‘the community’, rather than your husband and/or his family. It’s easy to put the blame on a faceless group, far easier than to think about the extent to which the man you plan to marry, and the father of your child, and his family are subjecting you to pressure.

Yet your husband colluded with his family in keeping you a secret from the community. Your MIL-to-be humiliated you by asking her imam for permission for her son to marry you, and misrepresented you as Christian, both are now pressuring you to marry immediately, your partner isn’t ‘handling the stress well’ and you appear to feel you can’t even tell the man who’s supposed to love you most in the world and whose baby you’re carrying, that you feel desperately sad, humiliated and reluctant.

I actually have a lot of sympathy with your partner’s family, as I’m very much aware of the issues of ‘loss of face’ and ‘respectability’ in this kind of faith group, and the extent to which what you are doing in fact makes their lives very difficult — which I don’t think you fully understand, and which no one who didn’t grow up in a similar faith group could understand — but I think you need to recognise that ‘the community’ isn’t a bunch of faceless elders and imams, it’s your husband and your MIL and SIL too. Don’t kid yourself otherwise. The pressure isn’t coming from outside, it’s coming from within them.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 07/12/2020 23:03

...... '' But his family aren't so relaxed, and so he wants to protect them. However, his family are not stroppy "my way or the highway" types either...they're just devout in their faith, and don't want any aggro or embarrassment.....

This is what will cause problems..
Regardless how much you like them, stand your ground...

Ultimately he has gone against his faith and has a pregnancy that may be a child outside marriage.

There is no way they will keep their noses out...

Every single mixed marriage I've come acorss... This has happened...

And yes in the most Liberal, easy going Muslims.... Suddenly what the community says about child rearing is MASSIVE.

Hope you find a wya through Flowers

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 07/12/2020 23:08

PS and also as the PP has said..
The community is not some faceless anonymous others causing problems...
These ar eyour in laws, their friends, and everyone they know in the faith...

They will be desperate to avoid perceived shame on their family.

HeadPain · 07/12/2020 23:12

He's obviously not been sticking to Islamic teachings by dating you, living with you and having pre-marital sex. So why should anything be forced on you. Children are supposed to be raised Muslim too. Any discussions about that?

HeadPain · 07/12/2020 23:21

Just seen you already wrote about that. Hmmm...

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 08/12/2020 01:39

It's the judgement of the community that's difficult for me to get my head around. How anyone could think it was any bad thing that two people fell in love, and are kind to one another, take care of their families, are decent to others, try to be respectful of everyone, and just want to live a happy, honest life together, is insane to me.
The fact that the threat of judgment by these people can dictate how we live, and that our needs and wants disappear because of people so narrow-minded...just seems so wrong. My family (his family) don't deserve to be shunned because of decisions my partner and I make. But we don't deserve to be pushed into doing things the way someone else expects us to, against our wishes, either.

OP you and your husband sound lovely, but what you said here suggests so much naivety. My husband and I are different faiths, cultures and race. Believe me it’s not easy - especially around big life events such as weddings and whenever a child is born. My husband, being the white British atheist, has had to bite his tongue so many times and compromise on things that he genuinely hated because it there were certain strong, established cultural practices in my family which if he refused, would have really damaged wider family relationships. It really wasn’t easy for him at times but we got through it - are you prepared for this pressure? And you say you’ll say no when it comes to protecting your children but it’s not as easy as it sounds. Your fiancé will be under severe cultural pressure and will have new parent hormones so his worldview and his opinions are likely to change, and his resolve weakened (as mine did) once baby is here and sleepless nights kick in.

Please be aware of this - you will need excellent communication skills both of you, and will need to work on your compromising.

I agree with you that it’s a good idea to let your husband know how much of a sacrifice this is for you, so that he understands your perspective. But I think it’s important for your own mental health and peace of mind to start to find the joy in the compromises you make. Think about it- you’ll be marrying the love of your life during a pandemic with no need to worry about the pressure of a big wedding (that can be celebrated without any pressure at a later date). My husband has coped by finding the joy and pride in learning about and partaking in the more stressful cultural practices but putting his foot down on dealbreakers (I.e. circumcision - we have 2 boys and my parents still ask when they will be circumcised)!!

theThreeofWeevils · 08/12/2020 03:49

Were you my daughter, OP, I would be telling you to run for the hills.
You will always be the 'problem' as far as his precious family - oh sorry, "community" - are concerned . And your intended husband has already shown himself to be a massive hypocrite.
Don't do it.

Nicolastuffedone · 08/12/2020 07:50

So, he’s very relaxed about his religion, even although it means a great deal to him. You’re not going to bring your child up as Muslim, no circumcision, head covering etc, already this marriage has to be rushed so his mum and sister don’t get hassle from the community, but you honestly believe you will be allowed to bring your child up in this non religious, embracing of both cultures way? Really? You’re naive at best OP! Be prepared for him to succumb to pressure from his family and the wider community, if he doesn’t do a full 360 I’ll eat my hat!
Oh! And I’m not talking through a hole in my head here, I’m not Muslim, but I have Muslim family members, I DO know what I’m talking about!

notacooldad · 08/12/2020 08:08

Your problems started right at the beginning when your relationship was kept a secret.
You are not something to be hidden away in shame!!

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 08/12/2020 09:25

My DP adores me. I know full well that if I told him exactly how I'm feeling, he'd turn his back on his family and community. But that's absolutely not what I want. I want him to be surrounded by his family, and to hold onto his faith as it's something very important to him. I want him to be happy, I love him.

Well you can't have it all ways. However much he adores you he is going to live in a permanent clash of loyalties and that is not a happy place to live. So you are going to have to pick some priorities and hold to them and accept that whatever happens life isn't going to be a bed of roses. And realise that his happiness and yours may be two different things.

Just to be clear also, my partner did not keep me a secret from his family. He introduced me within the first few weeks of us dating, just as I introduced him to mine. His family kept me a secret from their community.

They were probably hoping he would soon get over you and marry a nice Muslim girl, but you got pregnant instead so now it's a hasty marriage to make the best of things.

You have been - and are still being - very naive.

The situation with raising our children is something I'm far more comfortable with standing my ground on.

That's because the children haven't arrived yet. You're going to be a lot less comfortable when it happens. Your DP is trying to keep everyone happy but when he realises that he can't, it's unlikely that your preferences will win the day.

Woewoewoejoy · 08/12/2020 09:42

How about you do a nikkah first which is not a legal marriage almost a blessing in the UK but for Muslims this would mean you are married in the eyes of God. And should.appease his family. Do a legal ceremony later. We did this

DisappearingGirl · 08/12/2020 09:42

I'm just very unhappy with the role the community are playing. It's a struggle for me to understand how people who don't have anything to do with us on a day to day basis, have such control over how we live our lives.

I think this is the crux of it, that for many religious communities (including Muslims) the community DOES have a big role in people's lives - which I guess is both a good and a bad thing. It was probably the same among white British communities in, say, the 1950s.

It's not really your DH's fault, or his immediate family's fault, that this is how their community works. I can see how being unmarried and having a baby would be an issue for a very traditional community (BTW I have kids and my DP and I are not married!).

Certainly not saying you should give in to his family or community on every issue - but personally I would compromise on this one, if you're wanting to get married anyway, and have a small official wedding now and a party/reception later. This makes sense with COVID too. Congratulations on your pregnancy!

KleinBlue · 08/12/2020 09:56

@DisappearingGirl

I'm just very unhappy with the role the community are playing. It's a struggle for me to understand how people who don't have anything to do with us on a day to day basis, have such control over how we live our lives.

I think this is the crux of it, that for many religious communities (including Muslims) the community DOES have a big role in people's lives - which I guess is both a good and a bad thing. It was probably the same among white British communities in, say, the 1950s.

It's not really your DH's fault, or his immediate family's fault, that this is how their community works. I can see how being unmarried and having a baby would be an issue for a very traditional community (BTW I have kids and my DP and I are not married!).

Certainly not saying you should give in to his family or community on every issue - but personally I would compromise on this one, if you're wanting to get married anyway, and have a small official wedding now and a party/reception later. This makes sense with COVID too. Congratulations on your pregnancy!

You’re missing the point the OP is also missing. ‘The community’ isn’t something separate to the OP’s partner and his family, who are highly unlikely to be somehow a miraculous little island of liberal secularism in the midst of a bunch of notionally fanatical imams and elders who are enforcing strict rules on them — they are part of ‘the community’, as are their siblings, cousins, friends, neighbours, workmates etc.

It’s far too convenient for the OP to blame the pressure she’s being subjected to on third parties, when her partner and potential ILs are thoroughly implicated in it, as is obvious from their actions.

And honestly, if I had a pound for every time I’ve come across a ‘non-Muslim girl gets a nice, non-practising Muslim boyfriend who has sex with her, drinks, eats pork, doesn’t pray, but who mysteriously turns out to be more observant or culturally conformist on closer acquaintance’, I’d be rich.

tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 10:47

@theThreeofWeevils

Were you my daughter, OP, I would be telling you to run for the hills. You will always be the 'problem' as far as his precious family - oh sorry, "community" - are concerned . And your intended husband has already shown himself to be a massive hypocrite. Don't do it.
How has he been a hypocrite?

Stop holding Muslims to a higher account, you are a hypocrite.

Raebo · 08/12/2020 11:16

I spoke to my fiance this morning. I explained how I'm feeling, and that I don't want us to delay the ceremony, as I don't want to hurt his family, but that I do need his support and understanding, as it's been very difficult for me. I also explained that I don't want there to be resentment between me and his community, but there will be times that I need him to defend our family and our choices as parents, and to explain things clearly to me before we enter into anything. He was predictably devastated to hear things from my point of view, but completely understood how I could feel the way I do about how things have carried on, he hadn't considered how it might feel to someone from the outside, or how simply denying who I am could be so hurtful. He repeatedly offered to do things my way, and I again said no, and that I just need some extra support right now. He then called his family to explain the situation to them, they were very upset and offered to keep things quiet and to let us delay until the baby arrives, but we said no thank you, and he explained that I just need them to acknowledge that this is also difficult for me, and be more supportive and less pushy. To just give me time to breathe, and make it less suffocating.

I feel awful for upsetting people I love, but also relieved to not be trying to cope on my own, and to have again had the reassurance from my DP that he has my back.

Thank you again to those trying to help. Not really sure why there was so much spite in some of these posts, but those that were genuinely offering support, understanding, and advice, thank you. I really just needed a kick up the arse to speak to my DP. I'm glad I did.

OP posts:
tallduckandhandsome · 08/12/2020 11:50

How about you do a nikkah first which is not a legal marriage almost a blessing in the UK but for Muslims this would mean you are married in the eyes of God. And should.appease his family. Do a legal ceremony later. We did this

This is an excellent idea. OP, have you considered this?

CorianderQueen · 08/12/2020 11:52

This sounds so hard, but at the same time aren't you dismissing his beliefs as well?

You don't want a RO marriage because you want a dress and cake. Him and his family want a RO wedding because they believe being unmarried with a baby is a sin against God.

Both points are valid (though theirs obvs feels outdated to non believers).

KleinBlue · 08/12/2020 11:54

Honestly, OP, while it's good you talked to your partner, two things stand out for me here. First, that a man who supposedly knows and loves you apparently didn't realise you were feeling hurt, humiliated and angry, by the actions of him and his family and nor did his family, who supposedly also know and love you and second, that his immediate reaction is to call his family about your 'revelation', and they offer to 'let you delay' -- you get that it's not their call, right?

And the upshot is that even though you've been honest, the situation hasn't changed -- you're still, as you put it in your first post, 'being marched to a registry office because you're pregnant' and treated like a dirty little secret to be cleared up asap...

CorianderQueen · 08/12/2020 11:56

The nikkah is a great idea

Raebo · 08/12/2020 12:08

We did hope we could have a nikkah, however, we've not been granted permission to marry, and they would require us to be married before we could have a nikkah. It's all very confusing to me, and my partner feels the same way. At the end of the day we can't really win, so we can only do our best.

My partner didn't understand my feelings because I never explained. I convinced myself that I was being unreasonable and selfish, and kept them to myself, but realise now that actually my feelings are valid, I see things from a different point of view and its not disrespectful for me to share these views. He was very upset that I'd been hurt by the way things were handled, just as his family were, but I also understand that they've tried to handle things in a way that allows for our relationship and different approach to way of living, but that also preserves their standing in the community. It's difficult for both sides, but what wasn't ok was that I was the only one not voicing their feelings. We ALL have to be honest about the difficulties we're facing. If they hadn't told me how they were feeling and what their fears were, I would have wrongly assumed that all was well, which is exactly what's happened to me due to my own silence, all be it with the best of intentions.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2020 12:12

He hadn't considered how it might feel to someone from the outside, or how simply denying who I am could be so hurtful

Isn't that rather worrying, given the time you've (rightly) spent thinking how this appears from his and his family's perspective? And doesn't it raise the question of what else he might not "consider", just as long as his family and community can be appeased?

What matters for now, though, is that you're content with his response - here's hoping you'll be able to go on feeling the same way

SharonasCorona · 08/12/2020 12:16

OP, I’m Muslim and all we had the imam from Woking Mosque do our nikkah. I don’t think you need permission to marry.

Your fiancé sounds like a good man who loves you a lot. If you want to have a nikkah call Woking Mosque and get their advice. They were fab for my nikkah, very punctual and did a great ceremony.

KleinBlue · 08/12/2020 12:16

OP, has anyone actually been following up the whole 'permission to marry' situation, and if not, why not? You say your partner's mother wrote to her imam a year ago for permission, and telling him (misleadingly) that you were a Christian in order to pave the way, but there's been no reply a full year on? Is this a bureaucratic oversight or is it more convenient for certain people for that piece of paper to have fallen down the side of a filing cabinet and stay there?

nitsandwormsdodger · 08/12/2020 12:17

Be a feminist modern woman, or compromise, your choice
If you have a girl will you do this to her?
If you have a boy will you want him to do this to the women in his community ?

nitsandwormsdodger · 08/12/2020 12:20

You could have legal but done , then big do next year? My friend hued a retired pastor no one knew it wasn't a legal do as he wore the clothes and said similar words they had legal another day
Or have Muslim wedding not legal but family may be happy with that ?

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