Are you ‘lucky’ If you’ve done well for yourself?

[MissMessy12]

If you have a nice home, financially comfortable, happy family life does it annoy you when people comment on how ‘lucky’ you are?
To me luck is about chance, winning the lottery for example or being in the right place at the right time.
Everything I have, I’ve worked hard for, in my opinion has nothing to do with luck.

My disabled child goes to school 8 hours a week.

I would argue that if you die of cancer (as per my example) you would indeed be unable to succeed.

These threads always miss out a key factor. Ability/talent.

@unchienandalusia

These threads always miss out a key factor. Ability/talent.

Yes, I was wondering if anyone would spot that!

@unchienandalusia

These threads always miss out a key factor. Ability/talent.

Comes under luck for me

Dh got a job just so he had a job

Turns out he is good at it

Might not have been as good at another job 😀

Ability could come under hard work as well obvs

I think it’s a combination of factors personally.

I probably am classed as doing well for myself. But I was definitely not advantaged from the start.

Brought up in a working class Yorkshire home, typical council estate type, I was known to social services at one point, nobody has gone to uni in my family - including me!

I now have a well paying job (higher tax earner, but not wealthy, wealthy) sat in a house worth approx £440k mortgage free in a northern posh rural commuter village. (inheritance from DPs side)

DPs side are much much older than my parents (my mother as a teenager when she had me! his parents are the same age as my grandparents, and only 2 of my grandparents survive, mainly due to lifestyle/poverty). DPs had a northern working class upbringing, but did get degrees that allowed them to earn. They invested in property back when it was extremely profitable - hence our early inheritance.

We have a very comfortable life, I literally started in a job where I would make the teas at age 16 to being quite senior, the job I had have now was advertised in the independent (for degree holders, I professional qualifications) and it make me feel a bit weirded out on that fact - that was sheer hard work. My parents are in retail and think I open post and reply to letters for a job 😬

I was lucky to have an aunt and uncle who gave me sound financial advice.
I was lucky to have the ability and ambition to follow some of the advice and made a plan that has mostly paid off.
I was lucky to get a house when prices dipped and I had a deposit saved.
The only thing is that when you achieve well financially it becomes part of you and you will never stop wanting to. So you can be wealthy but you always want to do more. Even if you have plenty you can't quite be content with what you have iyswim.

I've got a nice life, some of that is down to good decisions I've made, but an awful lot is luck. I'm lucky I'm healthy, clever, had a stable upbringing, in a country with universal free education, I graduated when there was low unemployment in a part of the country with lots of employment. I've two healthy children, parents who've helped with childcare, my husband is fit and healthy and we have a stable relationship, I fell in love with a decent man. I've inherited some money that has taken a chunk out of my mortgage by luck of generations of my family passing on property and not having many children.

I've been fairly poor and I've worked hard and planned stuff, but everyone needs luck.

I've only once been called lucky, although I consider I am.

With my siblings I spent my early years in mostly separated foster homes and when back home we were definitely very low income. Not very nice.

However we had loving parents who wanted nothing more than we should be educated. Luck.
University was free back then. Luck.
As for the talent bit, we were bright, very able children so the fostering set-backs didn't have lasting effects, at least not on academic achievement. We none of us had to work hard to do well. Luck.
All healthy. Luck.
Marrying a good man has an element of luck, of course.
Having DC definitely luck.
Buying a house at the right time. Sheer luck,. No planning involved.
An inheritance, though I'd rather my sibling wasn't dead. Luck.

I've always worked in public service and now benefit from the pension, and now I think of it, it is this that attracts the "lucky" observation, even though you couldn't opt out of them back in the day, so hardly a windfall. And I paid out of my salary for it, with additional contributions, so saved.

Do I sound exercised about this?

I think it's because the situation is so horrible now with housing and pensions, but I can't be doing with the grudging nature of the observation on pensions. Unbelievably even had this from a near-millionaire!

How can you work a 24hr+ day?!

It can happen: I witnessed my dad working 24 hours in a row when I was younger. He would spend his nights driving lorries and then get some adhoc job the next day for extra cash in hand.

It isn’t sustainable and caused him to be very mentally unwell, hence why I was known to social services

At the very least you need the absence of some element of bad luck (no cancer you die of, no seriously life changing accident etc )
I think you hit on thee nail there. Posters are viewing luck as the absence of bad luck. This is not how I define luck. More good fortune.

Saying that I agree that almost everyone will experience done level of bad fortune in their lives. Most will not be debilitating enough to stop them achieving high if they put the hard work in and make investment choices.

This doesn't take away that if course there is a percentage of whose background and life events mean they are genuinely restricted. But just like those who are overweight and can't lose weight through reasons that they can't control, the vast majority of people in this country have their destiny in their hands.

No not really, LRI specifically refers to career development ( which appears to be how people are measuring success on this thread!) and is about accepting that unplanned events are a part of life and ensuring you develop skills to help you make the most of unplanned or chance events. It's not about attributing everything to fate or luck or claiming chance plays no part in your life.
The basic premise is that unplanned events do happen and that there are certain characteristics that mean someone can use these in a positive way. Unplanned events can be small or big, and small events can mean huge changes where as big events can result in little or no change. So that's a yes then! Really it is! Just applied to career planning rather than being general or global theories.

Life is full of chance and unplanned events - there is no denying that and it doesn't detract from an achievement. Yes, but attributing chance events to luck is to deny an individual agency. Some people believe chance is luck, others believe it is an opportunity... that's the point of difference!

Neither is right or wrong. But, as is always shown here on similar threads, neither 'side' is comfortable with the other's arguments and beliefs. There is usually very little common ground as each 'sides' basic premise, by its very nature, undermines the other.

I think it's both. I've worked hard for where I am but I'm also lucky that I was not born in to poverty, that I'm intelligent, that despite a terrible period of mental health as a teen and dreadful a level results because of it, I got a degree and a master's. I'm lucky to have had some of the opportunities I've had.

I'm lucky I met DH who has also had a similar mix of luck and hard work.

I had supportive parents, but I wouldn't call that luck, it just is what it is. I went to a state school, never went to university, but had an interest in a subject that had good job prospects (still wouldn't call that luck though). Managed to wrangle a very junior position, and have slowly worked my way up while learning more. Now my DH and I are about to buy a house, and another DC is on the way. None of that is luck; we've worked hard and are now reaping the rewards.

but had an interest in a subject that had good job prospects (still wouldn't call that luck though).

So you control the labour market and economy do you??

How anyone living through the current situation and still deny the impact of chance/luck is beyond me. It's insulting to all those hard working, talented people who have had their livelihood destroyed due to an unpredicted global pandemic.

How many times do we have to do this thread?

Yes, you’re lucky. I know so many people who work far harder than those I know on high wages - the hardest working people I know are unpaid carers to disabled children, working 24/7 to meet their childrens’ needs for £67 a week.

If your life’s circumstances have enabled you to do well, you’re lucky.

I was lucky that my mum pushed us to have a level of education she never did. I was lucky she moved from an area with terrible schools to one with better schools so we could do as well as possible. I was lucky to be able to go to university and graduate and get a good job.

I was not lucky to develop health issues in my late teens that gradually worsened until I could no longer work full time. I was not lucky to have twins who are both disabled meaning that I can only work a tiny number of hours a week.

I’m lucky that we own a house, even if we only own one because my mum died and her life insurance paid out. Plenty of others have lost parents and not been left anything. Losing your only parent is a terrible thing to happen, but we are fortunate that she was able to leave us something.

It’s 2020 and over 4 million British workers were living in poverty before COVID - how can anyone look at the situation and think that hard work is all that’s needed for a good standard of living?

@sbhydrogen

I had supportive parents, but I wouldn't call that luck, it just is what it is. I went to a state school, never went to university, but had an interest in a subject that had good job prospects (still wouldn't call that luck though). Managed to wrangle a very junior position, and have slowly worked my way up while learning more. Now my DH and I are about to buy a house, and another DC is on the way. None of that is luck; we've worked hard and are now reaping the rewards.

Every single thing you’ve mentioned is luck, not to mention the fact that you had the aptitude to progress through a career. Finding a partner you love, being able to have children, the child you have not having a disability that prevents you from working - all luck.

I'm lucky in that I had supportive parents (emotionally and financially), a good education and the good fortune to be born in a democratic developed country.

I'm lucky that I met my dh and we've worked hard as a team to get the material possessions we currently have (not everything but enough)

I'm unlucky that I'm in daily pain due to autoimmune arthritis and struggle to do basic daily tasks. And we're unlucky that we've struggled with infertility for four years.

Anyone who has healthy children without the need for fertility treatment and anyone who is healthy is very lucky in my opinion. Neither are due to "hard work" they're just luck.

Neither is right or wrong. But, as is always shown here on similar threads, neither 'side' is comfortable with the other's arguments and beliefs. There is usually very little common ground as each 'sides' basic premise, by its very nature, undermines the other.

Erm, I'm pretty sure all my posts ( and others) have said it's a combination of factors. At no point have I said success is all about luck/chance/ or whatever you want to call it.

Luck/chance also needs someone to recognise the opportunity, work hard and have some talent or ability. In the other hand, hard working and talented people are still subject to chance events. It might be simply 'right place, right time', meeting someone, or even living through a global pandemic. Those that are successful have particular attributes which mean they make the most of chance events and are resilient enough to deal with unplanned situations. Attributes that have been listed on this thread by people denying the influence of chance or luck.

Erm, I'm pretty sure all my posts ( and others) have said it's a combination of factors. At no point have I said success is all about luck/chance/ or whatever you want to call it. I said there was little ground not no ground for agreement! And I specifically put 'side' to try to identify a polemic!

And as far as I can see the only thing we two are discussing is different theories, that we each understand from a different angle!

Really a strange question - not sure that hard work is desirable, but maybe a means to an end. Successful people (in my definition, reaching their own life goals) may have been achieved by working hard, but I'd suggest many would have the preference to have achieved the same goals by working less.

It's really about smart decision making and hence working smart.

Luck really is an excuse - it's about making the most of what you have and minimising any disadvantages. Choices will have significant impacts - and sometimes will limit or open up opportunities.

People who work hard for very little have not been 'unlucky', they may be making the best of their circumstances and past choices - but its also likely didn't make smart choices, and that's living life - making choices for yourself and making your own way in the world.

There is no universal smart choice - its down to people's own personality and beliefs. Everyone needs to own their life and stop looking to others and claiming 'luck' in hindsight.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Erm, I'm pretty sure all my posts ( and others) have said it's a combination of factors. At no point have I said success is all about luck/chance/ or whatever you want to call it. I said there was little ground not no ground for agreement! And I specifically put 'side' to try to identify a polemic!

And as far as I can see the only thing we two are discussing is different theories, that we each understand from a different angle!

I think we are just approaching this differently. In my subject we don't tend to take 'sides'. We draw from a range of psychological and sociological theories and recognise the benefits as well as the limitations of these theories.

Interestingly, the theories my students find resonate most are those that recognise the role chance and luck.

Its not mutually exclusive.
I work hard but recognise I have been lucky.
Four years ago my career was fine but honestly nothing special (50k ish in london) I have tripled it since then.

Contributing factors to my "sucess" arguably include a bullying boss, a person leaving my department and my head of department wanting to retire (he needed to leave a stable team for his big boss to get a fat payout)
None of which were "great decisions" on my part.

I also met my DH online and he is amazing.
We have a very good life and we save but also spend a little.