To be overwhelmed at this level of extended breastfeeding?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

I belong to a FB group for extended breast feeders (from when I was breastfeeding my 3 year old) and a thread just popped up on my newsfeed where a woman was celebrating her daughter’s 6th birthday and saying how she still breast fed her.

As I read the comments they were all lovely and supportive and other women came forward saying they were still feeding their 8, 9, 10 year olds (and some even older).

I won’t lie - I was surprised that breastfeeding continued for that length of time in some families, not that there’s any specific reason why it shouldn’t, but I was genuinely taken aback. I was a bit in awe really of the women who were continuing despite probably feeling it was viewed as something they ‘shouldn’t’ be doing.

When I was breastfeeding my 3 year old my husband would make the odd comment about our son “being too old for that now” so I can’t imagine what he’d have thought if I’d carried on for much longer. I suppose that’s due to the UK’s societal and cultural attitudes towards extended breastfeeding though.

AIBU to be so astonished by this?

Does anyone know anyone who has breastfed for that long or done it themselves?

I would love to understand the reality of it, and learn about the emotions/reasons behind it, and especially how the mothers cope with any negative attitudes they face - of which I imagine most sadly do.

This thread has made me think of Rose of Sharon at the end of the Grapes of Wrath, breastfeeding the dying stranger- and adult man. It isn’t there to be sexual. It’s a kind act in desperate times. In our culture we’ve clearly lost all touch with BF as a natural and powerful thing.

If you think BF an older child is weird, examine why you think that and what it says about you. Don’t try and project your own feelings about BF onto other people’s actions.

[and I’ve got no skin in this game, the latest any of my kids weaned was 2.5 years]

The whole narrative about ‘the benefits’ is interesting.

That BFing should only be done if it can be ‘justified’ by physical and quantifiable ‘benefits’.

It demonstrates to me how little bfing is actually supported. People have been trained into being okay with bfing tiny babies, but as soon as the scientifically demonstrable benefits are slightly less, they’re demanding boobs to return to their rightful place for men’s pleasure.

Why can’t mothers make their own choices about what’s right for their children, their bodies? Why do there need to be ‘benefits’ beyond ‘this works for us both and I’m continuing?’

I breastfed enthusiastically, the mongolian way, from the getgo. It was brilliant, any problems could be solved by boob and we coslept and i never felt sleep deprived. I never experienced any public condemnation, no one seemed to care and i breastfed all over the shop! It all came to an end at 1yr though - DD just went off the idea. So, not all kids want to be breastfed forever.

I don’t have skin in this game either. I only BF for about a year. I stopped because I’d had enough, not because my baby wanted to.

Why am I not being told it’s ‘all about me and what I want’?

Ironically, it’s the mothers who continue to give over their bodies for their babies who get told that.

What people really mean by ‘it’s all about the mother’ is that she’s put her baby’s needs above society’s need to view her breasts as sex objects.

@AlmostAlwyn - why do you think I haven't read the article? I'm not aware of any evidence of the benefits to adults of drinking breast milk in the article other than it not being frowned upon and a personal preference. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't recall any actual scientific evidence from the article supporting your claims.
I find your comments quite absurd to be honest. Western society so intent on 'pushing children away into independence as soon as possible'? Give over. Not every mum can rush to school every time their 8 year old becomes upset to stick her nipple into their mouth to comfort them. So that's why most parents teach their children to find comfort from a hug or a back rub from other adults (as children at some point do have to leave their mother's side), or a few kind words from a friend or a cuddly toy or special item that can be taken with them for the times they can't suck their mother's nipples. I place huge value on my child's comfort and security which is why we're teaching her to not rely only on my breasts being in her mouth to comfort her. Her father comforts her as much as I do. Her grandparents comfort her when she is with them. She will at some point need to learn to comfort herself. So yes, it does indeed matter what the source of comfort is. Unless you want to be the mother who turns up at secondary school after a call from your child's teacher explaining how they just won't calm down because they don't know how to unless you're there to breastfeed them.

It’s bloody weird, isn’t it, @TheKeatingFive

Not every mum can rush to school every time their 8 year old becomes upset to stick her nipple into their mouth to comfort them.

Unless you want to be the mother who turns up at secondary school after a call from your child's teacher explaining how they just won't calm down because they don't know how to unless you're there to breastfeed them.

Why are you extrapolating to such extreme situations?

No one is talking about bfing teenagers in school.

But young children. In their own homes.

@TheKeatingFive

I don’t have skin in this game either. I only BF for about a year. I stopped because I’d had enough, not because my baby wanted to.

Why am I not being told it’s ‘all about me and what I want’?

Ironically, it’s the mothers who continue to give over their bodies for their babies who get told that.

What people really mean by ‘it’s all about the mother’ is that she’s put her baby’s needs above society’s need to view her breasts as sex objects.

Quite.

If I said about someone who has chosen to FF that she's "doing it for herself" and "it's all about the mother's needs" and "it's weird" a lot of posters on here would be very upset.

What people really mean by ‘it’s all about the mother’ is that she’s put her baby’s needs above society’s need to view her breasts as sex objects.
Exactly.

I couldn't care less if someone is still nursing a 4 year old, or whether she tandem nurses because they're her children and she is meeting their needs in a way that works for the family.

If anyone thinks a mum nursing her child is eewie then they need to take a long hard look at their own attitudes to women's bodies.

if I said about someone who has chosen to FF that she's "doing it for herself" and "it's all about the mother's needs" and "it's weird" a lot of posters on here would be very upset.
Of course they would because they need to have an 'other' to judge and look down upon in order to feel better about their choices.

I've formula fed and breastfed, and in my experience you have a minority of breastfeeding fanatics but most of the hassle I've seen has come from people pushing their negative feelings on breastfeeding.

I have only read about half the thread so someone might have said this already. Disclaimer that I am generally very pro breastfeeding and fed my daughter until nearly 2.

I think pro-BF people are being a bit disingenuous when they say they have ‘no idea’ what people mean when they say some women carry on feeding just for their own benefit. I agree it can’t be 100% for their own benefit because it is indeed impossible to feed a child/toddler who doesn’t want to. But I am in several BFing groups and I have come across a number of women who have a very strong desire to feed their children to a certain age, and it is obviously something that is part of their identity and general parenting approach. Some women actively encourage older toddlers to feed, even when they don’t ask for it. And I know more than one person whose child has self weaned earlier than they expected (I’m talking 12/18 months here, not tiny babies) and been very upset about this, and tried lots of different strategies to try and encourage them back to BFing. Advocates of natural term feeding often say they will follow their child’s own cues when it comes to weaning but this isn’t always the case when it comes much earlier than they expected (ie before 3ish).

I also know a few women who seem to enjoy the slight element of martyrdom that comes with catering to every feeding whim of a demanding toddler. It’s a badge of honour for some people to be able to say that they have ‘met all of their child’s needs’ (I hate that phrase) which does often involve relinquishing your own. There occasionally comes with it a certain snobbery at people who have chosen to actively wean their child, assuming that this must cause children emotional damage, or at the very least that it is reflective of a selfish mother who doesn’t put her child’s needs first. I have been on the receiving end of that attitude. In breastfeeding groups when women ask about strategies for weaning toddlers there are always the people who pipe up with “why do you need to wean” and “they’ll self wean when they’re ready” etc etc.

So yes I do believe there are some women for whom breastfeeding is an integral part of their identity and who get just as much out of it emotionally, perhaps more, than their children.

So yes I do believe there are some women for whom breastfeeding is an integral part of their identity and who get just as much out of it emotionally, perhaps more, than their children.

If that is true (and I don't necessarily agree it is) is there anything wrong with that? Are women not allowed to use their bodies in a way that is beneficial to them (as well as their child)?

@TheKeatingFive not necessarily, no. But most people aren’t transparent about that (and people here are claiming that it is not the case). But there is also the question of what is right for the children too - if they are also happy to breastfeed then no problem, everyone is happy. But I do feel uncomfortable when I read threads about trying to encourage toddlers back to the breast when they are clearly happy to self wean. I don’t think it’s always healthy for the mother/child relationship and a very small minority of women seem to have an awful lot of their emotional connection with their children tied up in their breastfeeding partnership. People speaking of feeling rejected, not needed, etc - yes some of this is normal and the end of feeding can be upsetting but it should not be a devastating experience.

yes some of this is normal and the end of feeding can be upsetting but it should not be a devastating experience.

How many people are actually saying that though? For most it’s emotional, but then it’s done and everyone moves on.

And you really cannot force a child to feed who doesn’t want to. The whole narrative of ‘she’s doing it for her’ denies that.

I have read that kids self wean until 5/7yo. So after that is more out of the norm

You say "not every mum can rush to school every time their 8 year old becomes upset to stick her nipple into their mouth to comfort them" and some ridiculous scenario with a teenager and I'm the one whose comments are absurd?

Why does it have to be all or nothing? My 3.5 year old is perfectly capable of being comforted by his father and his grandparents. He's not incapable of being comforted in any other way than breastfeeding. Why is it such a problem that breastfeeding is on the list of comforts?

Of course western society thinks children should stop being dependent on you as soon as possible. What are dummies for? So they don't need you to suck for comfort. Why do we put babies in a cot in their own room from a few months old?

I breastfed my DS until about 24mo and DD until about 40mo. I am very pro-breastfeeding but fully accept that the most important thing is to feed you little one and do that in the way that works best for not only mother and child but the family as a whole.

For those suggesting that some mothers BF for purely selfish reasons, I would say that yes, I think some mothers continue breastfeeding in part because they actively choose to for themselves, however it is never completely the mother's choice. You cannot force an infant or a child to feed if they don't want to.

No you can’t force them but you can persuade them and encourage them. And that doesn’t fit with the narrative of ‘following their cues’ and self weaning. So at some point it can tip over into mum being more motivated to continue than the child.

I agree it is a small minority of women but we are already talking extremely small numbers here anyway given that we know only 1% of 6mo babies in the UK are EBF. But I’ve see it a number of times on extended breastfeeding groups, with people asking for tips on how to encourage toddlers back to the breast. I know some people do it because they’ve always wanted to tandem feed and baby brother or sister hasn’t come along yet, or maybe milk has dried up in pregnancy and toddler has lost interest. But some also have a goal of a certain age in mind and do everything they can to get to get to that point.

Call me a cynic but in certain (very niche) circles you don’t get full crunchy mum points if you’re not still feeding your 18 month old. And yes it’s small numbers but it’s relevant since we are talking about those kind of Facebook groups here.

Does it really matter if some people find it weird? As long as people are tolerant of each other and don’t become abusive then people are surely allowed to think what they want. Live and let live! It’s great that there are conversations like this so that people can understand it more if they want to.

No you can’t force them but you can persuade them and encourage them.

And again, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with that.

And that doesn’t fit with the narrative of ‘following their cues’ and self weaning.

If they don’t want to do it anymore they will stop. I keep coming back to this point. If the mother tries to ‘encourage’ for a couple of weeks longer is that really such a dreadful thing?

Again this argument seems to come back to a fundamental suspicion of BFing. That it’s only acceptable if it’s entirely an act of sacrifice for the child. But it is, in fact, a partnership and if the mother is emotionally invested in it, then I don’t see anything particularly problematic there, unless you believe that she should be focused on a different role/function for her breasts.

@LolaSmiles

Breast feeding any longer is just the mum not being able to let go and has nothing to do with the child needs. Breastfeeding is for infancy. Not for after your dc just ate some weetbix himself in the morning and then goes "mummy im hungry for some more". That is just weird...

Why is it weird?

This is what nobody has been able to explain without resorting to 'but we think boobies are sexual'.

Natural term weaning is done on the child's terms.

What I find really weird is the willingness of so many women to view other women's bodies as primarily for men's viewing pleasure and sexual enjoyment to a point where they'd sooner judge a woman nursing a toddler than examine their own attitudes towards women.

Best comment on here

No it’s not dreadful (never said it was) but it is not following the child’s cues, which is the reason that lots of people give for not having yet weaned (with the implicit assumption therefore that anyone who HAS actively weaned has therefore not listened to their child’s cues or not met all of their needs). Most women are not upfront about saying “I’m still feeding because my child enjoys it AND because I get a lot out of it too”. Usually it’s more “I’m still feeding because my child enjoys it and I’m selfless and put their needs first so why would I stop”. Which then shames other women who have not done this.

Nothing to do with the role of a woman’s breasts at all. I didn’t wean because I wanted my breasts ‘back’ or felt uncomfortable about them being used for feeding by a toddler. I have not been oppressed by the patriarchy. I just object to the common narrative (in pro-breastfeeding circles) that women who feed to natural term have done so entirely by being led by their child, all the while sacrificing so much to meet all of their child’s needs, purely doing what’s best for the child etc. And the implication that has been so well illustrated here - that women who do NOT do this are either selfish or have been brainwashed into thinking boobs are only for page 3 mags.

And the implication that has been so well illustrated here - that women who do NOT do this are either selfish or have been brainwashed into thinking boobs are only for page 3 mags.

I’m not seeing any of this on here at all. And I didn’t BF past one. That’s your own issues coming through.

but it is not following the child’s cues, which is the reason that lots of people give for not having yet weaned

Like I keep saying, a child who doesn’t want to anymore wont put up witb that for any length of time, so what, we’re taking a week or so where the child’s/mothers interests aren’t entirely aligned. Big deal.

Do you agree that there’s nothing wrong with a mother wanting the relationship to continue?

If so, I’m not entirely sure what point you’re making, other than working through your own issues, which I guess is fair enough.

I have a memory of asking my mum if I could try her milk when my sister was a baby, so I would be about 6. I think she’d fed me for around a year, but allowed me on this occasion. It’s a bit weird to remember but I don’t feel mega grossed out, now that I have a 5yr old that I fed til two and a bit, and another still going at that same age. It’s just your child, connecting to your body, which they came out of! But I doubt I’d say yes if my 5/6yr old asked to, probably because of that memory.

Sorry but only fucking weirdo would breastfeed an 8 year old?!?! I can imagine they must live in some weird commune where the kids are homeschooled and never meet anyone from outside...

@TheKeatingFive please don’t patronise me. I was perfectly happy to stop breastfeeding when I did. It was my choice.

My point as I initially said is that it is not entirely true that women don’t continue feeding for their own benefit. And I haven’t said that there is anything wrong with that necessarily. But it counteracts what many previous posters were saying ie there’s nothing in it for women to feed to natural term; it’s only for the child’s benefit. I’m saying - there IS something in it for a lot of women in these groups.

And in extended breastfeeding groups there is a certain amount of looking down from some people upon people who choose NOT to feed this way.