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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask your opinions on God?

999 replies

Violetduck · 04/12/2020 21:31

Do you beleive there is a God? I would like to, but how can he exist alongside modern science?

Aibu to believe in something more?

OP posts:
Barkspawn · 07/12/2020 14:16

@80sForever

Just to add further the coronavirus began because a certain group of people disobeyed those said spiritual laws and now we are all suffering
@80sForever

You're not one of those american nutjob preachers who like to go on about how the gays cause earthquakes are you? The same ones that usually end up getting caught in a public toilet with a rent boy

Againstmachine · 07/12/2020 14:25

I even know of hardcore atheists who have asked the question ‘is coronavirus an act of god?’ and that’s quite telling.

If the 'hardcore atheists' are saying that, they aren't really hardcore atheists.

The atheists I know have never mentioned god being involved at all.

ArthursRoundTable · 07/12/2020 14:29

@Againstmachine

I even know of hardcore atheists who have asked the question ‘is coronavirus an act of god?’ and that’s quite telling.

If the 'hardcore atheists' are saying that, they aren't really hardcore atheists.

The atheists I know have never mentioned god being involved at all.

The hardcore atheists I know tend to ask questions - and even question their questions.

Do you know what the definition of ‘act of god’ actually is? It’s an actual legal term used in some insurance contexts.

Example “In broad terms, an act of God can be defined as a disastrous natural event outside human control, such as some floods, an earthquake, hurricane or volcanic eruption. It’s sometimes used by insurance companies to describe natural events that can’t be predicted and therefore prevented by reasonable means.“
[[https://www.legalandgeneral.com/home-insurance/articles-and-guides/about-home-insurance/what-is-an-act-of-god/]

Popcorntoes · 07/12/2020 14:30

@TellitToTheStars but why do you need something to happen when you die? Why not concentrate on doing as much good as you can here, because good is...good? Good means diminishing entropy, preventing the suffering or pain of others. If you only do good because you get your heavenly reward how is that moral?

Againstmachine · 07/12/2020 15:58

*The hardcore atheists I know tend to ask questions - and even question their questions.

Do you know what the definition of ‘act of god’ actually is? It’s an actual legal term used in some insurance contexts.*

You are going off on a tangent about legal terms of acts of God this thread isn't about that, it's about actual belief in God.

ArthursRoundTable · 07/12/2020 17:04

@Againstmachine

*The hardcore atheists I know tend to ask questions - and even question their questions.

Do you know what the definition of ‘act of god’ actually is? It’s an actual legal term used in some insurance contexts.*

You are going off on a tangent about legal terms of acts of God this thread isn't about that, it's about actual belief in God.

Ugh. I don’t think you understood the point. Where do you even think the legal term originally came from if not an actual belief in god (or some sort of force of nature outside human comprehension)?

In simple terms. Question was originally asked by hardcore atheist friend in a legal insurance context. Then (probably because the trigger word ‘God’ is in the title of Act of God) he asked the deeper questions, explored it (albeit briefly) and reasoned it. Conclusion was no he doesn’t believe a God is behind coronavirus because the science suggests it was just humans unwisely eating wildlife animals (crossing a boundary) and that’s apparently how the virus crossed over into humans. E.g. How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market? It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?

My point was that my hardcore atheist friend questioned the possibility and reasoned it for themselves. That’s all. Atheists are allowed to ask questions about God you know. Pretty sure Richard Dawkins has asked questions about God and that doesn’t stop him from being a hardcore atheist. In my friend’s case asking questions about God’s likely or unlikely involvement in things strengthens (rather than weakens) their view of atheism.

juliastone · 07/12/2020 18:54

My philosophy teacher (probably atheistic or perhaps agnostic himself) used to say: "Even people who don't believe in God start praying in a few split seconds before the car hits them". He maintained that everyone believes when in one of the "limit situations".

ErrolTheDragon · 07/12/2020 19:07

I don’t think you understood the point

Tbh I'm not sure many of us got your point till the fuller explanation (and now I'm not too sure it was as interesting as you thought it wasGrin)

My philosophy teacher (probably atheistic or perhaps agnostic himself) used to say: "Even people who don't believe in God start praying in a few split seconds before the car hits them". He maintained that everyone believes when in one of the "limit situations".

Doesn't he know better than to make assertions which he can possibly verify?
Personally I'm pretty convinced that's bollocks. Just another variation on the cheap, insulting and definitely inaccurate 'no atheists in foxholes' jibe. (Atheists who've been in foxholes and lived to tell the tale are the proof of that)

TheSandman · 07/12/2020 20:23

[quote Popcorntoes]@TellitToTheStars but why do you need something to happen when you die? Why not concentrate on doing as much good as you can here, because good is...good? Good means diminishing entropy, preventing the suffering or pain of others. If you only do good because you get your heavenly reward how is that moral?[/quote]
Good point. If you only do good because you are expecting to get some kind of reward for it - ie you get eternal afterlife to sit around in a state of bliss extolling god, enjoying the delights of 72 beautiful, black-eyed perpetual virgins, or just hanging out with all your dead aunties - surely that is less moral than doing good because it's just the right thing to do.

What kind of moral person has to be bribed into being charitable, kind, considerate, helpful, and virtuous?

Unsure33 · 07/12/2020 20:41

I am not sure , but I do know that most people who do have a belief do seem to have an inner strength and belief which I quite envy.

Also my mother has a life limiting illness and I am on a forum for her illness and some of the support I have had from obviously religious people ( not in a preachy way though) has been genuinely heartwarming .

Unsure33 · 07/12/2020 20:43

@juliastone

I agree with this . I prayed when my son was very ill . And promised if he survived I would try and live my best possible life and think of others . Which I have tried to do .

CathyorClaire · 07/12/2020 20:43

[quote TellitToTheStars]@LastTrainEast Victims? To be fair the only victims are those who live without hope once this life ends. How sad it is that you think there is nothing left once you die[/quote]
Eternal life with all its worshipping forever requirements sounds exhausting.

I want a bloody good rest when I peg it.

CathyorClaire · 07/12/2020 20:53

If any laws have been broken for coronavirus to happen I suspect it’s more grounded in the laws of nature being broken. Apparently the virus started in a wild life market in Wuhan. Something to do with humans eating bats?

Agree entirely. Bats that are scientifically proven to be viral reservoirs.

emmetgirl · 07/12/2020 20:57

Which one?

80sForever · 07/12/2020 21:05

@CathyorClaire Eternal life with all its worshipping forever sounds exhausting I'm forever surprised at these thought patterns. To think that people would actively chose not to worship God who by the way gave you the gift of life is beyond beggar's belief

Parker231 · 07/12/2020 21:10

Why would I worship a god I don’t believe it. My life isn’t so shallow I need to drop so low.

80sForever · 07/12/2020 21:12

@juliastone

My philosophy teacher (probably atheistic or perhaps agnostic himself) used to say: "Even people who don't believe in God start praying in a few split seconds before the car hits them". He maintained that everyone believes when in one of the "limit situations".
This is because deep down, in those quiet moments, when there is nothing left to hold on to, you recognise the truth
80sForever · 07/12/2020 21:15

@Parker231

Why would I worship a god I don’t believe it. My life isn’t so shallow I need to drop so low.
Drop low? Actually you need to drop to your knees in worship to the almighty God who by his choice alone you have breadth in your body.
Ilovemycat13 · 07/12/2020 21:20

I haven’t read the whole thread. But there is nothing wrong with having faith. Atheists who spout that religion is shit, God doesn’t exist or sharing videos of Stephen fry are just as bad as religious people who shove it down others throats.

It gives people hope and faith and that’s that, why do people on either side of their argument need to justify it.

CathyorClaire · 07/12/2020 21:20

[quote 80sForever]**@CathyorClaire* Eternal life with all its worshipping forever sounds exhausting* I'm forever surprised at these thought patterns. To think that people would actively chose not to worship God who by the way gave you the gift of life is beyond beggar's belief[/quote]
A blink of an eye 80 odd years (on average) of a gift no-one asked for and that more often than not has its burdensome moments seems extortionate in exchange for eternal gratitude and obligation.

LadyLaSnack · 07/12/2020 21:22

I believe that our concept of a god is just layers of religious and cultural framing on what we understand to be 'nature'. Our creator + our destroyer.

Parker231 · 07/12/2020 21:38

I guess I’m very lucky that I don’t feel the need for a god in my life or a religion to support me. I’m healthy and happy as are my family. You don’t need a religion to try and live a good life.

I don’t need to believe in something which causes so much trouble in the world. Obviously the god people refer to was of bad character as he doesn’t appear to have done much good with these magical powers.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 07/12/2020 21:39

@80sForever

This is because deep down, in those quiet moments, when there is nothing left to hold on to, you recognise the truth

As someone who very nearly lost my life in a car crash, I didn't think about god in the final seconds before I lost consciousness... because I don't believe in the concept of god.

I distinctly remember in those few seconds thinking about how upset my mum would be if I didn't make it and also how scared I was of the pain I knew the crash was about to cause to me physically.

There is no universal experience when it comes to love, grief, pain - the way you speak is very patronising as you seem to think people who don't believe in god don't experience (as I think you said earlier in the thread) things like love, joy, strength etc. Just to reassure you - we do!

EggyPegg · 07/12/2020 21:43

[quote HavfrueDenizKisi]m.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo[/quote]
That is amazing. Thank you for sharing! The interviewers face though Grin

turolive · 07/12/2020 22:06

Oh god, the fundies back to preach at us.