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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Husband and his brother

167 replies

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 05:20

Just a rant really.
My husband started a business many years ago and its turned into a success. I am an accountant by trade and so I work with him managing the finances.
My husband has one brother (my BIL) who is far less successful than he is and has always jumped from job to job, relationship to relationship, has been black listed for bad debt and just generally is a bit of a slack arse about life where even going for a walk around the block is too much effort for him. My husband on the other hand is driven, motivated, passionate about his business and is fit and looks after his health. So polar opposites with little in common except that they are brothers.
About 10 years ago my BIL just up and left his job with the usual excuse about how 'he just couldnt take it anymore' and got kicked out of his rental and landed up sleeping on our couch. Out of desperation my DH gave him a job. It was a position created for him just to get him off our couch and on his feet.
10 years later and his is still working for us, living in a house we have provided and driving a company vehicle. My DH has moved him around the business about 5 times because he just keeps failing by either not being capable or because his slack bulchy attitude affects the other staff who we cant afford to lose.
And so its rolled around again that BIL has to be moved out of his position because things are falling apart around him and staff are unhappy.
Im so fed up with it.
My DH has no respect for him and because of the family relations has no boundaries in how he talks to him so just ends up shouting at BIL all day because he is honestly so useless at his job.
BIL has no self respect and honestly just takes it all in as 'part of the job'. He has no drive and is in his late 40s so I think he just thinks we are his retirement plan so is prepared to just suck up a bad job because its comfortable and safe.
Im at my wits end with an unhappy DH who is resentful that his own brother (older by the way) has become his responsibility. Im pissed off at BIL who seems to have no desire to be better and I cant understand why someone would have so little self respect that they would get up everyday and go to a job that he knows he is not doing well in. And Im angry at both of them because one has gained an employee, the other an employer but both have lost a brother because we do not see each other outside of work because my DH just needs a break!
Our business does well enough financially and I feel like the best thing to do is to just pay BIL to do nothing for the sake of peace at home and at work.

OP posts:
YoniAndGuy · 03/12/2020 10:10

I swear because he is BIL he thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

And because he is such a lazy shit the rest of the staff don’t respect him and actually set him up to fail. It’s honestly a disaster.

You have to get rid of him. This is a total reflection on the business and good people will either leave, or not join you. With the way things are looking to change after this year, you can't afford not to.

Xiaoxiong · 03/12/2020 10:12

I thought SA too when you said a) multiple farms and b) neither benefits nor jobs available for someone with no skills.

Also - you say "I guess I would have to provide BIL with a monthly stipend". Why? You wouldn't do this for any other employee of your farms.

You have a DH problem. He needs to break out of the FOG (fear/obligation/guilt) towards his brother he has clearly inherited from their enabling parents.

I agree with Mummyoflittledragon - how about you give him his "inheritance" now by buying a one-bed flat for him and then cut the cord?

I worked in a family business once. We nearly all fell out, I had to quit to preserve family relations. In the long run that stint was great for my CV and got me where I wanted to go, but I should have gone in with my eyes open to know that it could only ever be temporary.

Thecobwebsarewinning · 03/12/2020 10:15

I can sympathise with this in a way as both my brother and my BIL (DH brother) are total wasters. Clever men, but both bone idle and slaves to alcohol.

BIL is also charming and good looking so has always managed to find women to sponge off to supplement his sporadic income from labouring jobs. He is in his sixties now and has ‘retired’ to Florida with a very wealthy woman who is happy to support him as long as he toes the line. They seem very happy together. However he is trapped because if he pisses her off he’ll be out on his ear with no medical insurance and he is too old to work as a labourer. You reap what you sow.

My DB OTOH drifted from family member to family member, sofa surfing, running up debts and then flitting. That went on until his early thirties when he ran out of people to sponge off. He then had to live rough for several years. That was the wake up call he needed. He had to use his intelligence to get off the streets. Luckily he was too broke to afford alcohol so that probably helped.
He is nearly 60 and now ‘works’ 16 hours a week for the DSS and uses his knowledge of the rules and systems to get the highest possible benefits to supplement his tiny wage. I say ‘works’ because he seems to be off sick more often than not. He is estranged from his ex wife and adult D.C. and lives in one room in an HMO. As long as he has enough for cheap cider he isn’t bothered about anything else.

You know yourself OP that if you cut your BIL off he will end up in the street like my brother did. You and your DH have already decided that can’t happen so you don’t really have a choice here.

JustAnotherUserinParadise · 03/12/2020 10:25

Wow OP I agree with previous posters saying you need to manage him out!
I think get him out of the house first, then job.
If you fire him first, he will say he can't afford to rent anywhere else.
So find a reason to get him out of the house (it needs fumigating/renovations, then another manager is promoted and so it makes more sense for them to have it, and him to move into a small cheap flat).
Then either straight fire him, or reduce his wages (because he is no longer paying for the house), and step him down to the lowest possible level - something he can actually do. The bin-emptying man who works 2 hrs a day??

So you'd end up paying for a cheap flat, and some basic work (where you would just about be getting your money's worth).

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 03/12/2020 10:32

Working on the basis that your DH isn't going to sack him and your DBIL isn't going to suddenly have a personality change then the only option is to ringfence DBIL's influence as much as possible. He needs to stop being your DH's right-hand man.
Put DBIL in an office on his own or let him work from home. Give him a three-month project - a feasibility study; research into the market in other countries; whether the company should move online/into social media, etc - tell him the outcomes you want and that he is working alone. Make the project something that could potentially add value to the business but that isn't integral to its daily running. Then when he completes it - give him another 3 month project or a 6 month project.
We let DSIL live in one of our properties to help her get on her feet and save for a deposit for her own place. She didn't. Sometimes, with family, you have to work with what you have so you don't end up frustrated. Good luck. It's difficult. Flowers

lottiegarbanzo · 03/12/2020 10:38

I certainly wouldn't want to work for your company. Useless, lazy colleague. Shouty boss. Horrible.

JamieLeeCurtains · 03/12/2020 10:45

He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married.

May I ask, is your BiL aware of all this?

Branleuse · 03/12/2020 10:47

are there no unemployment or housing benefits in your country. Could he apply for help to pay the rent and stay in that house and find ways to make his own living costs. He sounds like a real burden

YoniAndGuy · 03/12/2020 10:50

@JamieLeeCurtains

He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married.

May I ask, is your BiL aware of all this?

Can we stop with the trust thing? OP's explained very clearly that it isn't a 'family trust' in the way the term implies... possibly she worded it badly. It's s trust to protect the business assets and have clarity on the inheritances from THE DH'S BUSINESS THAT HE STARTED AND BUILT - and that OP, partner and accountant, is now an equal part of.

It makes no difference whatever if the BIL knows how his brother has sorted out his own financial planning for his will etc.

Xiaoxiong · 03/12/2020 10:50

Useless, lazy colleague. Shouty boss.

As long as the DH isn't shouting at anyone except his genuinely useless brother, I'm sure the other employees are able to see that there are family dynamics going on here.

However, their patience and understanding will not be infinite and the DH needs to get his BIL out (and certainly stop moving him around into managerial positions) before it does start corroding goodwill, if it hasn't already started.

Original poster
OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 10:55

@JamieLeeCurtains

He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married.

May I ask, is your BiL aware of all this?

Yes.
OP posts:
Original poster
OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 10:58

@YoniAndGuy thanks!

Sorry for the confusion... there is no family inheritance here. In fact the little money my MIL left her two boys was split equally with all household assets and her car going to BIL.

We call it a family trust but it has nothing to do with past inheritances, it’s just a vehicle for business ownership and future estate planning.

OP posts:
Original poster
OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 11:01

@Xiaoxiong

Useless, lazy colleague. Shouty boss.

As long as the DH isn't shouting at anyone except his genuinely useless brother, I'm sure the other employees are able to see that there are family dynamics going on here.

However, their patience and understanding will not be infinite and the DH needs to get his BIL out (and certainly stop moving him around into managerial positions) before it does start corroding goodwill, if it hasn't already started.

My DH is an otherwise excellent manager and people person. I do feel that because BIL and DH are brothers there is a familiarity that breeds contempt and my DH should probably not get so angry at work but it really is a breathless situation.

We just discussed it again and agreed that since he doesn’t have the heart to just kick the guy out and feels a sense of responsibility that the best option is for him to do some sort of job alone and out of everyone else’s way. The less chance he has to fck things up the better.

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 03/12/2020 11:07

Well I find shouting in my vicinity stressful. It doesn't need to be aimed at me, for me to find it unpleasant, jarring and completely inappropriate in a workplace.

Or for me to lose respect for the person doing it, whatever their relationship with the victim of their aggression, or their provocation.

I just wouldn't want to work in a place like that.

JamieLeeCurtains · 03/12/2020 11:11

@OldOrMaybeNotThatOld, I promise you I've read every one of your posts and I've understood them.

I have a complex family too, half outside of the UK, half in. The psychology of the various simmering resentments, expectations and entitlements, across jurisdictions and generations, involving births, marriages, divorces and deaths, is quite entangled.

LetsSplashMummy · 03/12/2020 11:18

I think you could manage this in a way that doesn't mean you are eith fully responsible for him or throwing him to the wolves.

Can you tell him that you would like him to do x role, but it involves taking some training or a qualifications - some sort of professional development. So he's working part time and you are paying for him to get some training/qualifications. He's less of a burden on your business, costs more short term, but he could (in theory) find a different job if it doesn't work out once he is more qualified.

Hopefully he would rise to the challenge, don't aim too high - if he needs to start with school level qualifications, then do that. None of this ego stroking, promoted above his abilities thing (like the management roles). That is setting him up to fail.

He has no self respect because he is stuck, with no other options - if you supported him to expand his options it would relieve the tension all round.

I know you shouldn't have to do this, but it is surely better than the guilt of seeing him hit rock bottom?

Original poster
OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 11:20

[quote JamieLeeCurtains]@OldOrMaybeNotThatOld, I promise you I've read every one of your posts and I've understood them.

I have a complex family too, half outside of the UK, half in. The psychology of the various simmering resentments, expectations and entitlements, across jurisdictions and generations, involving births, marriages, divorces and deaths, is quite entangled.[/quote]
Thank you for understanding

OP posts:
stayathomer · 03/12/2020 11:25

I actually really feel for your bil, I am very average in everything I do. I am a sahm now with a genius husband, but I'd say I was destined to go through average job after average job(I worked in offices) trying hard and yes keeping jobs but I messed up a lot and people here would say I should be let go. I don't know why I'm saying this, I just feel for your bil, people have probably moaned about me and called me useless. I'd hate members of my family to talk about me like that too. Either way you all can't keep going the way you're going-him basically springing, but your dh shouts at him all the time? Horrible way to live for him and you and dh. Maybe he should go travelling or sit down and think about what he really wants with his life

QuestionEverythingOrBeASheep · 03/12/2020 11:26

If he was any other employee what would you do? You should also be doing this with him. Officially and through proper procedure so he can't take legal action against you for sacking him unfairly. Do everything by the book and keep immaculate records. I wouldn't put it past your BIL to try and milk it if he loses his cushy existence.

Original poster
OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 11:30

@stayathomer

I actually really feel for your bil, I am very average in everything I do. I am a sahm now with a genius husband, but I'd say I was destined to go through average job after average job(I worked in offices) trying hard and yes keeping jobs but I messed up a lot and people here would say I should be let go. I don't know why I'm saying this, I just feel for your bil, people have probably moaned about me and called me useless. I'd hate members of my family to talk about me like that too. Either way you all can't keep going the way you're going-him basically springing, but your dh shouts at him all the time? Horrible way to live for him and you and dh. Maybe he should go travelling or sit down and think about what he really wants with his life
I also feel sorry for him. I can’t believe that he doesn’t have enough self respect to say that he deserves better and go and find it for himself.
OP posts:
LindaEllen · 03/12/2020 11:31

How about your husband gives him a deadline for when working with you plus any property and vehicles is going to end? It could even be as generous as six months if you think you can cope with that - but the point is, there would be no excuse not to find more work by that point, plus somewhere else he could rent. If he's a single man he could even get a room in a house share for goodness sake.

He will not end up on the streets, but even if he did, it wouldn't be your fault. You've bent over backwards for him over the years, and have handed everything to him on a plate. It needs to change, or you're going to be living like this forever, resenting this man, and it's likely to come between you and DH in the end.

Get your husband to have a word with him, explain that his position in the company is no longer tenable, but that he has six months to find a new job, and somewhere else to live.

Unsure33 · 03/12/2020 11:39

The main thing is to get him out of the business .

If he lives in the house rent free for now it will still be saving you money and stress .

stayathomer · 03/12/2020 11:41

I also feel sorry for him. I can’t believe that he doesn’t have enough self respect to say that he deserves better and go and find it for himself.
Not everyone thinks that way, maybe it doesn't occur to him? I don't know, I just find it easy for people to judge when they're good at what they do, but I know how it feels to be muddled and have people- exasperated at me.

EKGEMS · 03/12/2020 11:43

I'd just pay him to stay home and as far away from your business as possible

GnomeDePlume · 03/12/2020 11:45

I think @YoniAndGuy's suggestion is an excellent one. Essentially pension him off. Move him to somewhere where you cant see him so that you dont have his presence as a constant reminder.

Make it clear to him that his life is essentially grace and favour. Part of the conditions of this situation is that he does not come onto any of your business premises without express invitation.