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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Husband and his brother

167 replies

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 05:20

Just a rant really.
My husband started a business many years ago and its turned into a success. I am an accountant by trade and so I work with him managing the finances.
My husband has one brother (my BIL) who is far less successful than he is and has always jumped from job to job, relationship to relationship, has been black listed for bad debt and just generally is a bit of a slack arse about life where even going for a walk around the block is too much effort for him. My husband on the other hand is driven, motivated, passionate about his business and is fit and looks after his health. So polar opposites with little in common except that they are brothers.
About 10 years ago my BIL just up and left his job with the usual excuse about how 'he just couldnt take it anymore' and got kicked out of his rental and landed up sleeping on our couch. Out of desperation my DH gave him a job. It was a position created for him just to get him off our couch and on his feet.
10 years later and his is still working for us, living in a house we have provided and driving a company vehicle. My DH has moved him around the business about 5 times because he just keeps failing by either not being capable or because his slack bulchy attitude affects the other staff who we cant afford to lose.
And so its rolled around again that BIL has to be moved out of his position because things are falling apart around him and staff are unhappy.
Im so fed up with it.
My DH has no respect for him and because of the family relations has no boundaries in how he talks to him so just ends up shouting at BIL all day because he is honestly so useless at his job.
BIL has no self respect and honestly just takes it all in as 'part of the job'. He has no drive and is in his late 40s so I think he just thinks we are his retirement plan so is prepared to just suck up a bad job because its comfortable and safe.
Im at my wits end with an unhappy DH who is resentful that his own brother (older by the way) has become his responsibility. Im pissed off at BIL who seems to have no desire to be better and I cant understand why someone would have so little self respect that they would get up everyday and go to a job that he knows he is not doing well in. And Im angry at both of them because one has gained an employee, the other an employer but both have lost a brother because we do not see each other outside of work because my DH just needs a break!
Our business does well enough financially and I feel like the best thing to do is to just pay BIL to do nothing for the sake of peace at home and at work.

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OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 07:57

@flaviaritt

If the house is on their business premises it might not be worth a huge amount as a residential dwelling.
Its on agricultural property. The house has always been occupied by one of our managerial staff for which we get paid rent out of their salary.
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Cygne · 03/12/2020 07:57

He got a salary increase from us to cover the rent we would need to get from the house.

Is that a sensible arrangement? Don't you end up paying tax on the money you have given him?

flaviaritt · 03/12/2020 08:00

He has held a number of positions. Including spares manager, safety manager, workshop manager ...

It sounds like he could probably get a different job? Whether or not he keeps it is probably his issue. But it doesn’t sound like your DH is going to sack him so 🤷🏻‍♀️

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:01

@Cygne

He got a salary increase from us to cover the rent we would need to get from the house.

Is that a sensible arrangement? Don't you end up paying tax on the money you have given him?

Its a complicated business setup! And we are not in the UK.
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OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:03

@flaviaritt

He has held a number of positions. Including spares manager, safety manager, workshop manager ...

It sounds like he could probably get a different job? Whether or not he keeps it is probably his issue. But it doesn’t sound like your DH is going to sack him so 🤷🏻‍♀️

I know ... There doesnt seem like an answer here... Confused

Im waiting for the next complication ... His 19 yr old daughter moving into the house because her mother is going to get fed up with her lounging around doing nothing all day ... Help me!!!

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OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:04

We are going to be running a commune for the incompetent!

This was really just a rant because I cant see a way out of it.
My husband says its family cross to bear.

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Mrgrinch · 03/12/2020 08:06

With respect OP, you've got all the excuses in the world. You just repeatedly say that you'll have to pay his rent forever, you'll be funding his retirement and you can't sack him.

The problem is you can stop, but you won't. If you wanted to be out of this situation then you would, family relations have already broken down. You haven't no intention to stop paying for a 50 year old man to be a lazy soon so I'm not sure what advice anyone can offer you.

Mrgrinch · 03/12/2020 08:07

Have no intention**

flaviaritt · 03/12/2020 08:10

A couple of things here are a bit odd. You own the house outright? So not paying a mortgage on an agricultural building? And it’s always been a home ‘provided’ (rented to) a manager. Therefore, I don’t really understand why you needed to give him a pay rise to get a particular rent for it? You wouldn’t be renting it privately even if he didn’t live there.

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:11

@Mrgrinch

Have no intention**
I know ... Thats pretty much the definition of a rant which this clearly is.

I think if we couldnt afford to support him and it was a situation of us surviving monthly or him it would be a different story.
Doesnt make it any less frustrating that a person has so little self respect that they cant see the burden they are being on their own (little) brother.

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countdowner · 03/12/2020 08:12

I think the idea of agreeing to cover his rent is a good one. Tell him it's not working and he needs a new job or to go on benefits. Suck up the cost of absorbing the rent in the knowledge that it's worth it to not have the massive stress of managing him. Plus you're probably already losing money through training up people who move on because working with him is intolerable.

To be honest, he might be happy to sit at home on benefits, which he could afford to live on if his rent is paid. And you might find family relationships improve all round

Disfordarkchocolate · 03/12/2020 08:15

He needs to be sacked, stop enabling him or you will be doing it until he dies. Or, if your husband dies first he'll be claiming on the estate as a dependant.

iano · 03/12/2020 08:15

I agree... just let him live there rent free and leave him to it. It might give him the push to seek help

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:16

@flaviaritt

A couple of things here are a bit odd. You own the house outright? So not paying a mortgage on an agricultural building? And it’s always been a home ‘provided’ (rented to) a manager. Therefore, I don’t really understand why you needed to give him a pay rise to get a particular rent for it? You wouldn’t be renting it privately even if he didn’t live there.
A family trust (which BIL is not a beneficiary) owns the property. The business is run from the property. The house is usually occupied by a manager who pays rent to live there. The house is large and beautiful on a farm, it is a really nice place to live.

The trust earns its income from leasing property to the business and rental of the house. In order for the trust to keep earning its rental, we increased BIL salary to pay the rental to the trust.

The business structure is complicated and irrelevant to the fact that he essentially lives there for free as it has not affected his bottom line earnings.

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Crazycatlady83 · 03/12/2020 08:16

Cut the salary - if he isn’t doing what he is paid too do, why give him an increased salary? Sit take your rent and get him to figure the short fall out for himself

Can you move him into a lower job that he can do no damage in?

By making it easy for him (providing a house, a good salary, no consequences for his incompetence), you have provided him with no motivation?

Such a difficult situation for you though!

SallySaidHi · 03/12/2020 08:17

I think your plan to move to the UK is going to be your best way out of this. It's a reasonable thing to do, so can't be taken personally, and means he will have to find alternative employment.

I empathise as my sister works for us and it's not easy. It was supposed to be a stop-gap thing but that was 20 years ago. Fortunately she's good at her job, but so difficult and condescending. She moans about the job and DH constantly but won't leave! Like you, we no longer see her outside of work as we need a break from her.

mumonthehill · 03/12/2020 08:17

I think you need to start treating him as any other employee. So what actions would you take if another member of staff was under performing or making life difficult for other staff? Would mediation be an option so to put in place actual targets that have to be completed, then consequences for him if they are not such as a formal disciplinary? Although he is family if his actions impact staff etc he does really need to be told, given a chance to improve and if not then let go.

AlizarinRed · 03/12/2020 08:18

Have you got your wills sorted out?
What are the tenancy rules where you are - what if you can't chuck him out when you want to sell up? What if his DD has a young family?
I think I would sort stuff with a solicitor, make sure you can do what you want to in the future.

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:19

@countdowner

I think the idea of agreeing to cover his rent is a good one. Tell him it's not working and he needs a new job or to go on benefits. Suck up the cost of absorbing the rent in the knowledge that it's worth it to not have the massive stress of managing him. Plus you're probably already losing money through training up people who move on because working with him is intolerable.

To be honest, he might be happy to sit at home on benefits, which he could afford to live on if his rent is paid. And you might find family relationships improve all round

This is where Im heading... Except we dont live in a country where there are benefits to people who choose to not work. So how would he live day to day?

And whilst I appreciate that he could get another job. That is not the reality as there are not jobs falling out of the sky for people like him here.

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OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:24

It feels so nice to get all this off my chest! Thanks guys.
It may just seem like endless moaning, which it is because there is possibly no solution here, but it feels good nonetheless.

Our financial affairs are pretty water tight. He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married.

And just to add some spice to the story ... Yesterday I went to go and check on our other farm and there was my BIL (in the middle of a work day) showing around his latest online dating squeeze. Walking around our farm like he was showing off his prized family land. Flip I was angry.

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wimhoffbreather · 03/12/2020 08:26

You said earlier that you think BILs life must be shit, doing a bad job at work, being yelled at by your DH, but really his life is cushy. What’s some yelling when you have your rent and bills paid?

Anyone else would have sacked him and you know that. It’s your DH and his family (and kind of you too tbh) that have allowed him to be this way, he’d just have to survive!

Rant away, because I see you desire to resolve this situation from anyone-even you. It’s a shame, but you’ve all made this bed so might as well just accept that you’ll bankroll him forever and be done with it. Why bother even having him work for you? Seems to cause even more problems. Just pay him a stipend for him to stay away and stop screwing up your business

elQuintoConyo · 03/12/2020 08:26

He's in his 40s. He needs to grow the fuck up and stop sponging off his brother. Give him 2 months and then off he goes.

Your DH seems to be supporting him out of guilt or big brother syndrome. Sacking him doesn't mean your DH has stopped loving him as a brother, it's just a situation which isn't working anymore.

Bil has fucked this up for himself and will continue to do do the longer you leave it. Give him an ultimatum, ride out the storm, and then enjoy being free of this stress.

Flowers
Bluesheep8 · 03/12/2020 08:27

What effect does all this have on your other staff? Because believe me, if I was witnessing this in the workplace I'd be pretty aggrieved. He could be having a really detrimental effect on morale and ultimately performance Hmm

wimhoffbreather · 03/12/2020 08:27

Urgh so many typos sorry - it’s supposed to say ‘no desire to resolve the situation’

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:29

@wimhoffbreather

Urgh so many typos sorry - it’s supposed to say ‘no desire to resolve the situation’
I hear all of you! I really do.
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