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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Husband and his brother

167 replies

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 05:20

Just a rant really.
My husband started a business many years ago and its turned into a success. I am an accountant by trade and so I work with him managing the finances.
My husband has one brother (my BIL) who is far less successful than he is and has always jumped from job to job, relationship to relationship, has been black listed for bad debt and just generally is a bit of a slack arse about life where even going for a walk around the block is too much effort for him. My husband on the other hand is driven, motivated, passionate about his business and is fit and looks after his health. So polar opposites with little in common except that they are brothers.
About 10 years ago my BIL just up and left his job with the usual excuse about how 'he just couldnt take it anymore' and got kicked out of his rental and landed up sleeping on our couch. Out of desperation my DH gave him a job. It was a position created for him just to get him off our couch and on his feet.
10 years later and his is still working for us, living in a house we have provided and driving a company vehicle. My DH has moved him around the business about 5 times because he just keeps failing by either not being capable or because his slack bulchy attitude affects the other staff who we cant afford to lose.
And so its rolled around again that BIL has to be moved out of his position because things are falling apart around him and staff are unhappy.
Im so fed up with it.
My DH has no respect for him and because of the family relations has no boundaries in how he talks to him so just ends up shouting at BIL all day because he is honestly so useless at his job.
BIL has no self respect and honestly just takes it all in as 'part of the job'. He has no drive and is in his late 40s so I think he just thinks we are his retirement plan so is prepared to just suck up a bad job because its comfortable and safe.
Im at my wits end with an unhappy DH who is resentful that his own brother (older by the way) has become his responsibility. Im pissed off at BIL who seems to have no desire to be better and I cant understand why someone would have so little self respect that they would get up everyday and go to a job that he knows he is not doing well in. And Im angry at both of them because one has gained an employee, the other an employer but both have lost a brother because we do not see each other outside of work because my DH just needs a break!
Our business does well enough financially and I feel like the best thing to do is to just pay BIL to do nothing for the sake of peace at home and at work.

OP posts:

Billben · 03/12/2020 08:31

Except we dont live in a country where there are benefits to people who choose to not work. So how would he live day to day?

Not your problem. He is a grown man.

icelollycraving · 03/12/2020 08:32

Take from that he’s proud of it. If he’s proud of it then there is hope. He clearly enjoys the trappings so make him see if he wasn’t family he would have been sacked years ago but your patience is now wafer thin. If he wants to continue to enjoy the trappings, he needs to sort his shit out before you find someone else capable of the job, maybe a reminder that jobs are scarce too.
I’d find your dh infuriating as an employer if I had to work harder because his lazy brother is pointless.

MyOwnSummer · 03/12/2020 08:33

Honestly, I think you are stuck here because you won't face up to what needs to be done.

I feel for the hard working, competent employees who have contributed to the success of the business but have seen a lazy idiot given chance after chance. Unfairness like that is corrosive to morale and employee turnover.

He needs to go, for the sake of the business. He won't ever change if you refuse to enforce consequences.

VeniceQueen2004 · 03/12/2020 08:34

My husband has two children from a previous marriage and we are TTC one of our own.
My BIL has one child (19) from a failed marriage.

Totally irrelevant to the thread I know but I find it interesting your stepkids are from your sainted DH's 'previous' marriage but your BIL's daughter is from a 'failed marriage' .

Back to the point, I think if it makes little difference to you financially and your DH isn't yet ready to cut through the FOG of this clearly dysfunctional family setup, Then yes - lay BIL off, let him carry on living in the house you own and provide him with the most NUGATORY stipend your DH's conscience will allow just to keep out of the way. Do not respond to any further whining or guilting about wanting his job back or wanting more money - he has no right to live off you at all and should be grateful for what he gets. On the other hand I know from personal experience how impossible it can be emotionally just to cut somebody off to sink or swim when you know the likely outcome is 'sink'. Give him a baseline which will be adequate but uncomfortable; if he wants to improve his situation from that let it be off his own back.

IF your DH still feels guilty, he can set up a trust or allowance for his niece (who sounds very unlucky to have such a wastrel father). Then he can tell himself, and his brother if he moans, that he is taking care of his brother's child's future; this is a much better investment of his sense of familial obligation, because at least there's a good chance she might one day get off her backside and make something of herself.

Boringnamechanging · 03/12/2020 08:34

No idea what to do but do not employ the daughter too.

wheresmymargharita · 03/12/2020 08:35

But what is the problem with sacking him if

He himself also suffers in the current arrangement, being shouted at losing his brother etc,
You could allow him to stay in the house regardless so he would not end up on the street?

mindutopia · 03/12/2020 08:36

If you are happy with him living in the house, why not just fire him and leave him to it? He will have a roof over his head. If he wants some spending money for food and other luxuries, he can find a very part time job. At least he wouldn't be affecting your business. Give him 3 months to search for this part time job before you end his employment. You either have to give some tough love or accept that this is the situation you've made for yourselves.

CrotchetyQuaver · 03/12/2020 08:38

I think I would be tempted to sack him and remove him from the current house, but set him up somewhere much smaller and cheaper with a very modest allowance to cover bills and some food. Then leave him to get on with it. Duty done, burden reduced and hopefully the business flourishes with him gone and your DHs stress levels drop too.

SleepingStandingUp · 03/12/2020 08:39

I think the issue in part is your DH giving him a job above his skill set - making him a manager when he has no experience is setting him up to fail. He's be better off in a lower job where he has to do as he's told, no major responsibility just turn up, do as directed and if he acted up, it's fixable.
The other option is a consultancy role he can do from home where he reports directly to DH so basically paying him to not do anything

7yo7yo · 03/12/2020 08:40

He’s been enabled all his life.
First by his mother now by his brother.
Bet he was the golden child when they were younger too.
Sack him.
Let him have his accommodation but nothing else.
You and DH need to stop being doormats otherwise you’ll be supporting him and his daughter forever.

VeniceQueen2004 · 03/12/2020 08:40

Our financial affairs are pretty water tight. He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married

Haaaaang on a minute. So what's going on here? When you say a family trust is this money DH has inherited from his side, money you brought in from your side, or just how you have invested the money the two of you have made together? Why was BIL removed when you got married?

felineflutter · 03/12/2020 08:42

My husband has two children from a previous marriage and we are TTC one of our own.
My BIL has one child (19) from a failed marriage.

I was with you until this post. It seems everything BIL does is a fail. Your DH 'failed' at his first marriage too.

Original poster

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:42

Totally irrelevant to the thread I know but I find it interesting your stepkids are from your sainted DH's 'previous' marriage but your BIL's daughter is from a 'failed marriage' hmm.

Apologies, I noted this too. They both had failed marriages. I obviously feel a bit different because my DH and I have a very successful and happy marriage and this has probably tainted my opinion and this has come across. That being said though, my DH has managed to go on and have a happy marriage whereas my BIL has only managed a handful of relationships lasting not more than a few months, has a penchant for online porn and the night I first met him my husband was putting him up in a hotel because his then GF had locked him out the house because he burnt their dining room table in a fit of jealousy. So I guess my 'unfairness' in describing the two previous marriages may be warranted. I dont know.

And my DH is no saint. I feel dreadful when I hear how he talks to BIL I just know that is coming from a place of deep resentment and offset with a stupid obligation to keep helping this man.

OP posts:

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/12/2020 08:43

OK! You need a compromise that leaves your DH feeling he has not simply abandoned his DB!

You say your DH has paid him more money for a job he cannot do so he can afford a reduced rent on a property you own! How about he reverses that?

BIL is demoted to a job that keeps him away from other staff - packing department kind of thing. He gets a pay cut to match - all performance managed, within the law where you are.

You evict him from your property, you need to get a proper return on it, let a real manager live in it. Your DH is currently letting his DB steal the possible inheritence and standard of living of his kids and your future kids.

You help him rent, furnish a small, basic flat (build one from a barn or something if you have to!), commensurate with his new salary and then leave him to it!

You DH will have given him the basic necessities of life and so can rest easy with his own guilty conscience. BIL can do more for himself if he so chooses.

SleepingStandingUp · 03/12/2020 08:43

In order for the trust to keep earning its rental, we increased BIL salary to pay the rental to the trust. Why did you up his wages to cover the rent rather then take the rent out of his normal wages like everyone else?

purpleboy · 03/12/2020 08:44

Why is your DH getting so mad when he is enabling the situation? Surely if he is that pissed off something needs to change, what's the point of going through life angry when you have to tools to make the change?
Maybe you DJ needs counseling to understand why he allows this dysfunctional set up to continue? He is not and has never been responsible for his brother. Someone needs to help him understand that.

ApolloandDaphne · 03/12/2020 08:44

Are there any other, smaller properties he could move into that aren't tied to his job position? Could he be moved out his fancy house and you still give him enough to live on but he doesn't work anymore? I know this is not ideal but it would get him out of your DH's hair in the workplace but still allow him to know he has n to thrown his DB out in the streets.

Divebar · 03/12/2020 08:45

This must create an awful working environment for everyone else. Can you imagine working for a firm with that kind of nepotism and the shouting all day? Awful. I bet everyone else hates it. I think there needs to be a calm conversation with no shouting or threats where cards are laid on the table. I wouldn’t sack him probably ( although he should be) but something should be served in writing - either an expectation of performance targets or a warning around failures. I’d then set a timescale of 3 months with a review at the end. I’m afraid if there’s no improvement over that period then he needs to go. He needs to know that that is the only option available. Improve or go otherwise your remaining staff will be leaving instead.

flaviaritt · 03/12/2020 08:46

Lost me. 😂

Original poster

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:47

@VeniceQueen2004

Our financial affairs are pretty water tight. He was originally a beneficiary of our family trust but my DH removed him when we got married

Goodness people. We dont live in the UK so dont apply your standards here. We are not bad people. My husband set up a family trust when he got divorced to protect his business from any claim by his exw. The trust was started with no inheritance from anybody and a zero bank balance. The standard document was to include all blood relatives as beneficiaries and has time went on and BIL became an employee and DH and I got married the point of the trust changed. It is for the benefit of DH, myself, his two kids and any we may have together. It is built off the profits of our business and a property portfolio. It has nothing to do with anybodys inheritance and BIL has put nothing into it.

OP posts:

Nottherealslimshady · 03/12/2020 08:50

Sack him, unless you have a ginormous business where sectors dont communicate, this problem isn't going away when you move him, its growing, there must be so much resentment. I bet they know how much he's paid. You'll have a big problem on your hands soon.

Stop giving him money but let him live in the house. You're not helping him by letting him behave like a child.

flaviaritt · 03/12/2020 08:54

My husband set up a family trust when he got divorced to protect his business from any claim by his exw.

What a prince.

Are you paying the BIL enough (for his basic job) to rent somewhere else?

Nottherealslimshady · 03/12/2020 08:57

In fact, I wouldn't let him stay in your house. If he doesn't look after it you'll lose money.

I'd move him into a flat near where there are job opportunities, shops/factories etc, and pay the rent only.

Original poster

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 08:59

@flaviaritt

My husband set up a family trust when he got divorced to protect his business from any claim by his exw.

What a prince.

Are you paying the BIL enough (for his basic job) to rent somewhere else?

My god. I love MN. You people dig into all the finer details without understanding. This has deviated from its original intention. I can assure you that my DH exwife was paid out substantially from his estate's worth at the time. The business that he setup was started whilst they were going through divorce proceedings. He couldnt delay starting up a business pending the outcome of a divorce and he couldnt afford for a business that she had no input into setting up being included in her claim against his estate (would that be fair?) and so the trust was setup with HER kids as beneficiaries to facilitate this. Make sense? Is that so awful? ExW has no complaints so why would someone on MN?

OP posts:

Original poster

OldOrMaybeNotThatOld · 03/12/2020 09:00

@flaviaritt

My husband set up a family trust when he got divorced to protect his business from any claim by his exw.

What a prince.

Are you paying the BIL enough (for his basic job) to rent somewhere else?

Yes he gets paid VERY VERY well. Probably another reason why he would just suck up the shitty job!

OP posts:

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