Husband and his brother

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

Just a rant really.
My husband started a business many years ago and its turned into a success. I am an accountant by trade and so I work with him managing the finances.
My husband has one brother (my BIL) who is far less successful than he is and has always jumped from job to job, relationship to relationship, has been black listed for bad debt and just generally is a bit of a slack arse about life where even going for a walk around the block is too much effort for him. My husband on the other hand is driven, motivated, passionate about his business and is fit and looks after his health. So polar opposites with little in common except that they are brothers.
About 10 years ago my BIL just up and left his job with the usual excuse about how 'he just couldnt take it anymore' and got kicked out of his rental and landed up sleeping on our couch. Out of desperation my DH gave him a job. It was a position created for him just to get him off our couch and on his feet.
10 years later and his is still working for us, living in a house we have provided and driving a company vehicle. My DH has moved him around the business about 5 times because he just keeps failing by either not being capable or because his slack bulchy attitude affects the other staff who we cant afford to lose.
And so its rolled around again that BIL has to be moved out of his position because things are falling apart around him and staff are unhappy.
Im so fed up with it.
My DH has no respect for him and because of the family relations has no boundaries in how he talks to him so just ends up shouting at BIL all day because he is honestly so useless at his job.
BIL has no self respect and honestly just takes it all in as 'part of the job'. He has no drive and is in his late 40s so I think he just thinks we are his retirement plan so is prepared to just suck up a bad job because its comfortable and safe.
Im at my wits end with an unhappy DH who is resentful that his own brother (older by the way) has become his responsibility. Im pissed off at BIL who seems to have no desire to be better and I cant understand why someone would have so little self respect that they would get up everyday and go to a job that he knows he is not doing well in. And Im angry at both of them because one has gained an employee, the other an employer but both have lost a brother because we do not see each other outside of work because my DH just needs a break!
Our business does well enough financially and I feel like the best thing to do is to just pay BIL to do nothing for the sake of peace at home and at work.

[flaviaritt]

Yes he gets paid VERY VERY well. Probably another reason why he would just suck up the shitty job!

Right, so if you dropped his wages, asked him to move to a different place (because he can afford to rent) and told him, from now on, he’ll be treated like any other employee, why wouldn’t that work? Just because your DH won’t do it?

[CorianderBlues]

My husband has two children from a previous marriage and we are TTC one of our own.
My BIL has one child (19) from a failed marriage.

Your blinkers/bias show here. Your husband and your BIL both have children from previous marriages. Or, both have children from FAILED marriages.

Why do you not consider DH's previous marriage a failure as well as BIL's? DH has 2 children with her - I'd say that's a bigger investment, an therefore as much, if not more of a failure than BIL.

Also, it's DH's company that he has built up, you are talking about it with a lot of "we provided, we've given" etc. Maybe BIL sees you in the same way, riding on DH's coat-tails.

Devils advocate etc.

[Mix56]

I would provide him with a small flat somewhere, even pay elec/water/rates. Preferably not on your property. & say you are done.

[DougRossIsTheBoss]

I was afraid of this scenario with my feckless eejit BIL.

He has no qualifications or skills despite his private education and has been in trouble with police and unable to keep a job or a relationship. MIL enabled him for years despite him being violent to her at times. I, myself, have bailed him out of the police station at times just to save her having to do it.

As she's got older she tried to foist responsibility for him onto his older siblings and wanted us to agree to have him to stay and no doubt prop him up financially but I told DH I would leave him if that happened and I was stone cold serious.

BIL has not got any better with age but he has found some poor unfortunate woman to cock lodge with. She works. He is a 'SAHD' despite his total lack of parenting or even self care skills. Maybe he is good in bed or something as he has nothing else to recommend himself that I can see.

It's a shame you got yourselves in this situation as you have only made him dependent on you whereas some tough love at an earlier stage would have been better.

Now you have 2 choices
either choose to continue enabling for the sake of family harmony and just minimise the impact. Expect nothing of him and accept you pay him to do nothing.
Or sack him. Kick him out and accept the fall out.
If you do this he will likely find someone else to sponge off.

[teateateateateamoretea]

I'm guessing OP is in South Africa.

[Chamomileteaplease]

When you said that the BIL was rubbish at every job I was thinking you must have tried post room operator etc. But giving him managerial roles?? Thank goodness you have stopped that. I am not surprised that your other employees are getting pissed off.

And having him as a right hand man sounds daft too because he is likely to get on your husband's nerves further being in such close proximity.

I would give him a job which is extremely lowly, start performance proceedings and let him know that you will be sacking him if he does not live up to the job's requirements.

Then sack him if you need to. Decide before hand between you if you want to still pay his rent. Give him notice on that maybe. Even if it's a year.

He will never stop being a burden whilst you continue to provide so many safety nets and not boundaries whatsoever.

Or decide between you not to let it bother you.

And refuse to let the daughter move in!!!!!!

[DougRossIsTheBoss]

Your husband's frustration is that you cannot change other people.

You can wish all you like that he had a better work ethic etc etc but he doesn't. All the evidence is that he is never going to change and he has no motivation to as he still gets a job and a roof over his head anyway!

I do so wish people would realise that you cannot change anyone else only yourself. So you either accept how he is or you walk away. Changing him isn't an option and your DH is at fault for not being able to see that. Why is he getting himself stressed and wound up shouting at a man who will never change (MIL used to do that to BIL too)?

[Serin]

Does he have regular supervision and performance reviews? Where things can be discussed calmly.
Set targets and objectives and if he cant meet them then look at a role that is more suitable for him, outside of management. Being related to the boss is not a qualification to be a manager, it's not fair to the team he is meant to be leading and I imagine very stressful to him as well.
Let him keep the house but employ him in a different role, maybe in reception, security or maintenance.

[callmeadoctor]

As usual on here, you have a DH problem. This situation will never change as your DH won't do anything (despite the moaning). Im interested to know what would happen if your DH became ill (or died, sorry). I really hope that he has a will sorted.

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@CorianderBlues

*My husband has two children from a previous marriage and we are TTC one of our own.
My BIL has one child (19) from a failed marriage.*

Your blinkers/bias show here. Your husband and your BIL both have children from previous marriages. Or, both have children from FAILED marriages.

Why do you not consider DH's previous marriage a failure as well as BIL's? DH has 2 children with her - I'd say that's a bigger investment, an therefore as much, if not more of a failure than BIL.

Also, it's DH's company that he has built up, you are talking about it with a lot of "we provided, we've given" etc. Maybe BIL sees you in the same way, riding on DH's coat-tails.

Devils advocate etc.

If you read my response above. I acknowledged by bias about there marriages.
The reason i say WE is because that is what my DH and I are ... WE.
I am a qualified individual who is working alongside my husband doing exactly what I am qualified to do.
I am fully invested in this business and receive no free ride.

My BIL cannot possibly think I am riding on his coat-tails when my DH would openly tell anybody that this business is OURS and the success of it is because of the two of us working at it together, We live and breathe it!

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@teateateateateamoretea

I'm guessing OP is in South Africa.

Correct, What gave it away?

[YoniAndGuy]

The best solution that I can see is that you tell BIL that the situation with the job is no longer possible. That he has been moved through every role you can find and he continues to have a detrimental effect. Not neutral, detrimental - he is actually losing you money because staff leave.

You get him out of the house, you find alternative (cheaper!!!) accommodation and you pay him a monthly amount which will cover his rent and SMALL living expenses.

You've already said your DH won't let him sink so this makes sense financially, where simply sacking him isn't on the table. Doing this will, if managed right, SAVE you money as:
a. He'll be out of the business and you don't have to put money and energy into mitigating his effect all the time;
b. He'll be out of the house - so you have the option to raise that rent as much as possible and possibly even look at renting externally, or bring in someone to his vacant post on slightly different terms, either a slightly lower salary overall or slightly higher rent;
c. Your 'BIL outlay' will lessen in absolute terms. Right now you're paying out and it's actually damaging your business at the same time and tying up a valuable asset. Instead you can offer a stipend which you know can get him eg a small 2-bed or a 1-bed centrally, and it's his choice, but I bet it will cost a lot less than the effective house rental.

The next advantage of this is that it frees you up to leave if you wish. Once he's not employed, a decision to return to the UK/sell the business/ whatever simply won't affect him. No guilt for your DH. He can also move his DD in to his flat/house if he wishes and that will be up to him - does he want to choose a property in a slightly less good location so he can afford a bedrooom for her, or is he going to prioritise possibly finding his own job and living centrally in a smaller place? His issue.

But the most important aspect to it will be that it will correct the dynamic here, and I think the emotional and mental effect of that on both of you will be hugely positive (and maybe positive for BIL too, but that later). Right now, you and especially your DH have ended up in a situation where you're being forced to collude in a dynamic which is a big pack of lies, all created at huge cost to you to shield this pathetic, using, taking, useless grown man from real life. He gets to swan around 'managing' - but actually his brother is completely carrying him. He MUST be, at some level, completely entitled to be ok with this - and I think he is, from your story about him taking time out from the job he can't fucking do to swan around YOUR property showing it off as if it's his. I would be absolutely boiling at the temerity of that and would want to tell the new squeeze exactly how much of a parasite he was! Cheeky shit.
Well, this new arrangement would bring all that to an end. It would be obvious to everyone who mattered what the real, honest situation was here. No more pretending to be someone with a job (unless he actually went out and got one of his own). No more swanning round your property, letting people think he is a key part of you business. The situation would be an honest one at last. No more pretence within the family that the brothers are somehow on an equal footing - which right now must be so so infuriating and corroding for your DH, and any brother relationship. They could get back to building a brother relationship where it would have to be tacitly acknowledged that if it wasn't for your younger brother DH he'd be on his arse. No wonder your DH is constantly at him - the unfairness of the sibling dynamic as it stands would kill me. All the real effort covered up to make the golden twat look better. I would be so RAGING at seeing that 'very, very well' paid wage go out every month while he sits there complacently fucking everything up.

And, it might just have an effect on BIL. His choice would now be to publicly live as it's really always been - dependant on your DH. If he really is an absolute entitled parasite, he'll do that. Fine, you can play pretend families sometimes and leave him to it and have the choice not to really see him, and be able at last to answer honestly when people ask what the arrangement is.

Or, it might just be too embarrassing to have the pretence stripped away at nearly 50, have people asking him how he's managing to live now he's moved on from working with his brother, and he might actually have enough shame (and enough desire to not have to live a very basic life) to actually get a job, or at least look for one.

If I were you I would do some sums. What is a cheap-ish but ok rental for a 1/2 bed in a place where he would be able (theoretically) to get a job? Add on a basic living stipend. I would bet it will be money well spent to solve this issue for good.

[everythingcrossed]

I can't help noticing that your BIL has been given a series of jobs that have "manager" in the title when, clearly, he isn't capable of managing. Give him an entry-level job and a salary to match. He may be a lot happier without the responsibility of having to organise a team and might become more reliable.

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@callmeadoctor

As usual on here, you have a DH problem. This situation will never change as your DH won't do anything (despite the moaning). Im interested to know what would happen if your DH became ill (or died, sorry). I really hope that he has a will sorted.

If DH died I would manage the business to a soft landing. I would consolidate assets, probably sell the farm where BIL lives and he would get what is bequeathed to him in my husbands will. I would continue to support DH kids and I guess I would have to provide BIL with a monthly stipend (not equal to his current salary!)
Well thats what DH and I have discussed.

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@YoniAndGuy thank you for being so blunt and truthful!

[andweallsingalong]

Firstly why have you given him several managerial positions when he hasn't earned them by working his way up? And on top of that given him an unearned raise for his rent.

Surely that's guaranteed to piss off all the other employees, create bad feeling and set him up to fail.

Why not go back to basics?

Give him an entry level job that any unqualified person could do. Structure his pay so that its part salary and part bonus. Make the bonuses transparent, objective based and easily achievable. If he does the job to an acceptable standard he gets the bonuses. If not you're no longer stressed about over paying him.

Make it so if he does a shit job he pays his rent, basic food and that's it, but with the easily achieved bonuses he can have a few luxuries. Give him a 5 year plan. If he gets all his bonuses for 12 months he can apply (with everyone else) for promotion.

Then step back, take the pressure off.

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@everythingcrossed
Yes, he will never have a managerial role again. He just simply does not have the ability to manage people.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I can only imagine what your employees must think about this buffoon. They must be pretty pissed off with his presence, thus decreasing morale and affecting staff retention. Who wants to see the boss shouting at his feckless brother living the life of Riley? For that alone I think you should kick him out of the house and take the car back.

If you fear he may end up on the streets, do you have the cash to buy a studio / 1 bed? Tbh in your position you may be better off just to buy him a small place, put it in his name and either sack him or offer a minimum living wage job cleaning. Albeit I prefer the former.

If you choose to offer low skilled job, I would be clear if he fails, he is alone. He would have a roof over his head and only need to figure out buying food, paying for utilities and any property tax.

Doing this fulfils the familial obligation your dh feels and will allow you to decide your future. Time to get back control of your lives op.

[teateateateateamoretea]

Correct, What gave it away?

Just one word.....flip

[gg12346]

To be honest , its your husband's mistake, Its like entertaining an irresponsible kid for long .Why didn't your family took steps 9 years back ,when your brother was still young and told him directly that he has to find a way for himself.
Morever he has a child for a previous marriage .I would say give him more responsibility around and ask him to move a to a different setting with his kid .

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@teateateateateamoretea

Correct, What gave it away?

Just one word.....flip

Ha ha!
You would then understand why it would almost be impossible for this BIL to find a job at almost 50 with no skill set.

[teateateateateamoretea]

Sure. He hasn't a hope!

[YoniAndGuy]

OP I hope blunt didn't give the impression that I thought you were in the wrong! I hope that analysis is helpful. At least put it to your DH. You can't carry on as you are, the eventual result will be a complete breakdown in relationships.

And I'd argue that you actually CAN'T keep him in the business. Right now, you guys are that nightmare 'family run business' that savvy people keep away from because the nepotism stinks to high heaven - the impression is that good business sense is missing, that the setup is fundamentally a bit suss, that there's one rule for employees and another for the favoured. Your BIL would always have had to actually, work twice as hard and be twice as good to 'earn' his place in the eyes of staff, as your DH's brother. He's done the opposite, and that reflects on YOU and your DH - not BIL, the clever great employees that you want to hang on to will correctly put the blame for this awful management at the boss's door. And they'll look for a job somewhere which feels more professional. That has to stop!

I think up til now you've really done your best to help him, the way you've done it has totally not worked out, but there IS another option.

[BlueBrian]

Seen this sort thing happen in a fairly large local family owned company, one son worked hard is now the MD, the other was always fairly hopeless and failed at most of the jobs he was given, in the end they just set him up in a modest house and paid him an allowance to basically just stay away, employing him was more hassle than it was worth.

[OldOrMaybeNotThatOld]

@YoniAndGuy

OP I hope blunt didn't give the impression that I thought you were in the wrong! I hope that analysis is helpful. At least put it to your DH. You can't carry on as you are, the eventual result will be a complete breakdown in relationships.

And I'd argue that you actually CAN'T keep him in the business. Right now, you guys are that nightmare 'family run business' that savvy people keep away from because the nepotism stinks to high heaven - the impression is that good business sense is missing, that the setup is fundamentally a bit suss, that there's one rule for employees and another for the favoured. Your BIL would always have had to actually, work twice as hard and be twice as good to 'earn' his place in the eyes of staff, as your DH's brother. He's done the opposite, and that reflects on YOU and your DH - not BIL, the clever great employees that you want to hang on to will correctly put the blame for this awful management at the boss's door. And they'll look for a job somewhere which feels more professional. That has to stop!

I think up til now you've really done your best to help him, the way you've done it has totally not worked out, but there IS another option.

That is exactly what I said to him the other day. As DH brother you have a responsibility to set an example and carry the flag... it’s not a ticket to slacking off and circumventing company processes!

I swear because he is BIL he thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

And because he is such a lazy shit the rest of the staff don’t respect him and actually set him up to fail. It’s honestly a disaster.