Can't stand people referring to others as a 'Karen'

[shesellsseashells99]

I'm fed up with seeing it, I really have. it's gone way too far now. I have a friend who is ashamed of her name and won't post on any public forum because of the stick she gets. Constantly seeing stupid memes.

You may think I'm being too serious but I think it's so derogatory to people who have that name.

Or maybe it still has some sort of meaning in the US, I couldn't say as I've never lived there or even been there. One thing is very obvious - whatever it was supposed to mean does not translate to the UK.

There are many entitled white women, of all ages, who benefit from institutional racism. We all know it. I just call them cunts.

The argument seems to be that the "angry black women" trope is bad, which of course it is. However the "angry white woman" who doesn't like it back at them is fine? And to be enjoyed and revelled in. Ok, fair enough, but how long does that go on for. When does the "furious" uptight, fragile white woman trope stop? Or doesn't it? Is this it now forever?

@emilyfrost

YABU and ridiculous. Don’t like it? Tough shit; while it’s an accurate way to describe a behaviour it’s going to continue to be used.

I sincerely hope someone takes your name and uses it like this then you might have an understanding of what it is like to have the piss taken out of you daily because your parents liked the name Karen

@Grenlei

It's just lazy pathetic name-calling by idiots who are too thick to construct an argument. Like that vacuous prat Stacey Solomon who calls anyone who disagrees with her or calls her out on her bs a Susan. Playground mentality.

Exactly this. Was reading a fb post about a tv programme and someone just said she wouldn't be watching it any more. Fair enough. Some bloke decided to put "you won't be missed Karen". I did reply to him that he needed to be more original andif he was going to insult people he should up his game and find something intelligent to say.

@DressingGownofDoom

Using the term 'Karen' is the hallmark of an idiot. It will die out soon when the people who use it realise they're coming across as thick as mince. Like 'snowflake' and 'gammon' which are thankfully starting to die a death, or the annoying trend of sticking an animal onto the end of an insult eg cuntpuffin, wankbadger etc.

This...definitely people with limited vocabulary use these expressions!

And as for being attacked - that sounds like my 12 year old who claims I am "bullying him" when he's asked to get dressed, tidy his room, do his homework...

@Sameolesame

so stressful being called Karen. Calls for stoicism. The poor oppressed white female.

The argument is very clear and there’s no need to explain any further. The fury on here proves the point. You all know why the term has arisen and it is not misogynistic. For far too long certain members of the world have used their race, class, and gender to oppress others. Then suddenly become fragile at the mere use of “Karen”.

Calm down. There are bigger problems for ALL women out there.

You’ve missed the point entirely. Well done.

My cousins name is Karen. She has a mildly tough time with her name. I used to love the name as a child, glad it's not mine now though

@Sameolesame

Many Karens here.

Well ain't you a bitch.

Just calling you what you are, not using childish, PA name-calling.

Hilarious

Can’t use Karen as it’s what misogynistic, ageist, prejudice and classist

But bitch is ok

Have I missed an inside MN joke ?

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN that’s the beauty of this thread. It keeps proving the point.

I can see why it’s gaining popularity.

So can I, it's because the people that use it lack the intelligence to think of anything more appropriate using standard English.

It's very interesting that this is what really has annoyed white women the most. Not the actions of so-called Karens - the actions that threaten to get minorities either fired or killed. Nope it wasn't that. It was being literally labelled Karens. As if it's the biggest issue facing feminism in current times. It's not that surprising tbh but if you're gonna get worked up about Karen might as well add e.g Sally from HR, Becky etc etc.

So much anger and insults. The hypocrisy is staggering. Thank goodness I am not as intelligent and “getting the point” as so many here. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Read White Fragility by a fellow white sister Robin DiAngelo. It might help create some self awareness. And no the point is not that usage of Karen is misogynistic or whatever strange excuse is created.

@VladmirsPoutine you hit the nail on the head but a lack of self awareness will prevent them from seeing this and they will create all sorts of alternative stories with no interest in confronting the real issue. I have no time for this nonsense fragility.

BUT THAT IS HOW NOBODY USES IT IN THE UK. It's not anti-racist. It's anti-anything someone older than 40 says, thinks or does. White or black women.

It literally appears in the classroom, in the street, and on social media IN THE UK to tell slightly older women - of any race - that their opinion is not of value.

I've only ever seen it used when it's describing a woman who has resorted to going in all-guns blazing as a first recourse, and clearly has no idea what they are ranting about despite talking as if they are the world's leading authority, i.e. the sort of 'customer is always right' moron that you meet constantly if you have the misfortune to work in retail.

Personally, I don't have any respect for people that don't show any themselves, so if you come wading into a shop, shouting and bawling about your rights, repeating complete garbage as fact, and generally just being an utterly obnoxious human being, rather than making your point in a respectful and civil manner the way that other human beings actually deserve to be spoken to, then I couldn't care less if your behaviour gets called out for what is and somebody labels you a 'Karen'.

When it's used inappropriately then it ceases to retain it's original meaning and purpose. "Troll" has fallen victim to exactly the same thing. It sucks for people named Karen that this has gained so much traction, but it's undoubtedly a fact that the people that the term was originally intended to describe exist, so while it's lazy and offensive to people named 'Karen', I'm far more annoyed by the behaviour of the people the term describes and I'm not surprised that someone came up with a term for them and it has stuck.

FWIW I can think of countless examples where I encountered men behaving exactly the same way, and they're usually described as having 'little, fat, angry man syndrome', as they invariably fit a stereotype as well. So while there might not be a term for them that abuses a specific real name, they're recognised, spoken about, and held in exactly the same disdain as 'Karens', so I don't believe this is a thing driven by misogyny at all, at least, not originally.

@Besom

The person who used it to shut me down on twitter was a young white right-wing man. The discussion was nothing to do with entitlement to anything and I was totally polite. You can't tell from my profile that I'm white although you may infer it I suppose, I don't know. I don't post very often. But you can tell I'm female and middle-aged. I get it's not 'meant' to be used in that entirely sexist/misogynist/ageist way but it is. Which then makes it useless as any kind of calling out of racist, entitled behaviour. It'll no doubt go away soon.

Curious - what are you posting to show you're female and middle aged? It can't be a photograph, or they would know that you're white. So you must have tweeted things specifically stating your age and that you are female.

Seems unlikely, and seems more likely that it fits your agenda that they apparently only knew you were a middle aged female, knew nothing else of you, and called you Karen.

@Danglingmod

BUT THAT IS HOW NOBODY USES IT IN THE UK. It's not anti-racist. It's anti-anything someone older than 40 says, thinks or does. White or black women.

It literally appears in the classroom, in the street, and on social media IN THE UK to tell slightly older women - of any race - that their opinion is not of value.

Literally no one uses Karen to refer to black women.

It's a certain type of white, middle-class woman. Entitled. Speaks down to shop assistants. Makes snide comments. Berates the paper boy or the waiter.

All Karens are white middle class women, but not all white middle class women are Karens.

Just like how "gammon" is used to describe some white middle class men, but not all white middle class men are described as gammons.

@VladmirsPoutine

It's very interesting that this is what really has annoyed white women the most. Not the actions of so-called Karens - the actions that threaten to get minorities either fired or killed. Nope it wasn't that. It was being literally labelled Karens. As if it's the biggest issue facing feminism in current times. It's not that surprising tbh but if you're gonna get worked up about Karen might as well add e.g Sally from HR, Becky etc etc.

I think there's a difference between how it (presumably) was first used in the US, which seems to be more about white entitlement, and how it is used in the UK, which seems to be to belittle older women of any race or class. That's how I've seen it used here anyway, both IRL and online, and the only thing the 'karens' seemed to have in common was being middle aged women with opinions, not all white or middle class, and usually nothing to do with getting anyone fired.

But, for the sake of argument, if we accept that calling people 'karen' is about fighting racism by middle class white women, I still cannot see how it can it be more effective to use a random name than to clearly describe what you object to with meaningful words?

Nobody uses Karen in the UK to describe an entitled prejudice middle age white woman? Nobody?

I know many who use it and it is catching on.

Stop stressing about the name. Instead you should get worked up about the behaviour of Karens.

Literally no one uses Karen to refer to black women

Not in your experience, but maybe you're not in the right age group? I can think of two occasions when black work friends have been described as 'karens' for things that are nothing to do with the way people have described in pps about getting underprivileged workers sacked. In one case it was a discussion about how we re-arrange our office to be covid-safe. You can't fix the meaning of a meaningless word.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

It's sickeningly ageist, classist and misogynist. But sadly, the way misogyny is regaining traction and being increasingly re-legitimised from as recently as about 5 years ago, it's not altogether surprising.

Women and women's rights made some slow, hard-won progress over the last few decades of the 20th century, in which time those spouting openly sexist views were laughed at as the dinosaurs they were. It was obviously still simmering not too far below the surface and it's alarming how quickly and efficiently that smoke screen has been blown away.

The 'Karen' thing is only one symptom. In 2020, even the apparently innocuous word 'Woman' can make you a prime candidate for the doghouse.

It's concerning.

Oh really. Knock off the transphobic dog whistle fgs.