To ask if you feel you morally deserve your wealth

[Nc1028]

No judgment, genuinely interested (and bored!)

Read about the idea that people want to have money but also want to believe that they morally deserve the money. For example, those who earned their wealth are more likely to believe they deserve it because of hard work, whereas those who inherited wealth are more likely to feel guilty. Stay-at-home partners also tended to feel guilty if their partners are high earners/have inherited wealth when they haven’t earned/inherited wealth themselves. Everyone try to emphasise on their productiveness, not wanting to be cast as “rich and lazy”.

Wondering what people think?
If you have money, do you think you deserve what you have?
Do you think people who have a lot more money deserve what they have?

(Light hearted. Yes your money is none of anyone’s business but money is such a taboo topic, fun to talk about)

I was always ok for money...being a teacher on a good salary....then my late aunt left me about 750k....house worth about 650k which I let out so nice income and the rest is cash....I did my house up etc before I inherited and drive a 21 year old micra and will keep it a few more years but could splash on a better car ...I was planning lots of holidays this year but all cancelled..but feel a bit weird spashing it on expensive cars and holidays....she was quite frugal and so am I....its a habit that I will always have !...when I sell the house I will buy a place abroad as took early retirement recently so have the lump sum from that also....

I’m not wealthy by western standards, but compared to Those living in many third world countries I would be. Own an affordable house, small mortgage, two cars, always food on the table.

Do I deserve to be better off than them? No. Do they deserve to be better off? Yes.

So much of wealth is a large dose of luck of where you are born and the circumstances you’re in and the opportunities you’re presented with. A smaller part is what you do with what you’re given. If you’re from a supportive we’ll off western family you’re way more likely to be well off than if you’re born into poverty and have to drop out of school at 8 to work in fields.

Its interesting that apart from my father (from whom I won't inherit anything) I can't think of anyone I know that "earned" their wealth through their own career; maybe for me that's just coincidence but all my friends who have, say, £1m in the bank got that through an inheritance. I'm talking about people who are in their 50s whose parents died in their 70s or 80s and left them that money (not those whose parents died young). Most of these people then go on to complain they don't have enough to live on. Is there some connection I wonder? Prob. not, but it does grate!

Maybe this sudden flux of inherited wealth is something to do with when it became common to own your house, baby boomers etc.?

Interesting question.

We’re not wealthy, definitely not by the standards of my friends or in the country we now live, where the wealth is frankly staggering to me.

However we are comfortable and should, fingers crossed, have a mortgage free house in zone 2 in a few years (before I’m 45 ish) and have decent pensions.

I am in a very privileged position for the next few years in that household income has increased, have rental income and no housing or schooling costs (at home we would not pay for private). I feel very lucky for this and not particularly that we morally deserve it above anyone else.

Do I feel I morally deserve our position more than someone who simply inherited? Yes, I think I do.

Sorry not morally deserve. I think it’s morally neutral (although what you choose to do with it isn’t). Just ‘deserve’

I inherited enough to buy a house. I don't think of it in terms of 'do I deserve it' in a moral kind of way but I do see it that I do deserve it as a trade off from the universe for losing both of my parents, when most of my friends still have both of theirs.

We're not wealthy, but I suppose we are compared with a lot of people in the world.

I don't think wealth is a thing that's generally deserved. For every hard-working, morally good, generous wealthy person, there will be many many hard-working, morally good, generous people who are not not wealthy or who are poor. Why don't they deserve wealth?

It is irritating when wealthy people with good jobs imply that all you need to do is work hard and you can have the same. Tell that to the millions and millions of people work really hard, but do/did not have access to the same level of parental support, education or opportunities.

@Orangeboots I do understand relative wealth. My point was that I work hard and don’t deserve to live in poverty (ie struggling to afford necessities). Other people also don’t deserve to be in that position. There are enough resources in the world for that, easily.

@boomshakey howrichami.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i this tells you how rich you are relative to the rest of the world based on income

Haven't read the whole thread, so hope this hasn't turned into a race to the bottom debate like most threads do.

Quite frankly people deserve a lot more than what they have. Compared to how how hard my some of my older relatives have worked, I feel I've worked equally hard as them but have not had the luck of parents who were willing to help or a financial system that was as enabled me to have the sort of things they came to expect as a minimum (stuff your fucking iphones, I want a secure home). I don't think they deserve less than what they have had though. I just think younger generations/those who have suffered lately with the economic impact of COVID deserve MUCH, MUCH better.

I'm not worried about doctors, solicitors and high earning professionals earning their money. They deserve it. I just don't like corrupt behaviour that earns multi million/billionaires even more money than they can really spend.

Interesting question.

We are not wealthy but we are comfortable, and I have worked bloody hard for what we've got. I would say that I definitely have a stronger work ethic than many people I know. However, I also recognise that I was incredibly lucky to have been born into a stable, educated, supportive family, and to have grown up in an area with good schools etc, and that has made a huge difference.

So no, I'm not convinced that I entirely "deserve" what I have - it's the result of a combination of luck and hard work, and not all one or the other.

Anyone who lives in the U.K. is massively better off than someone who is from a disadvantaged/underdeveloped country. Do we all deserve it? Morally? Probably not

I have a relatively well paid job and quite a bit of savings. Dh’s business has really taken off and he has made quite a bit of money.
We are not rich, but comfortable.
I don’t feel that there is anything morally wrong in having the amount of money that we do and I don’t feel guilty about it. I feel fortunate and grateful to be able to help others because I do have some disposable income.

I worked with someone who had been made redundant multiple times, although due to no fault of their own. The company that we both worked for, we had hoped to work until retirement. It was the first time that I was made redundant (pre Covid). My friend was very disappointed. I was fortunate to secure another job quickly.

I've worked in several different industries

I pay my taxes

I've volunteered

I've trained & mentored

I've donated time, goods & money to local charitable causes

Why would I not be proud of what I've achieved over the years ?

I'm not earning mega money

Some people don't get the same opportunities due to their up bringing or health

There is are elements of opportunity, personal responsibility & luck !

I worked extremely hard but got nothing for it. The good job opportunities never came along, there were budget cuts that halved my salary and set me back to square one in my career, etc. I don’t think those who were lucky enough to get opportunities and avoid setbacks were more morally deserving, no. DH was incredibly lucky with job opportunities and he’s not a better person than me. I also inherited enough to pay for my half of our house. I don’t deserve that any more than anyone else, I was just lucky.

I used to work for a family owned business, they were worth approx £100m and they were absolute twats who treated people like shit. They were certainly not more deserving than anyone else.

DH and I have extremely different backgrounds, neither of us has inherited anything due to favouritism to other siblings. My extremely abusive childhood has wired my brain in rather an odd way according to therapists this coupled with intelligence, e.g taught myself to read before I went to school saved me from a very miserable life. Paid my own way through University while working full time which meant 60 to 70 hour weeks for a few years. The brain wiring thing means though I feel empathy I have almost never cried in my entire life and I can make decisions with my head easily. I can also compartmentalise parts of my life, well this was all good until the death of my DD.

Both DH and I took an interest in financial markets when very young. Mine was inspired by a very left wing teacher extolling the evils of capitalism. He was a militant labour supporter. I just thought you can make free money doing nothing! I was 15 at the time.

So we ended up in top 5% income wise for a few years but with the death of DD, I retired in my late forties to care for our youngest child.

Morally I guess I worked ridiculously hard for a few years with those hours. I suppose some people will say making money via investments isn’t moral. I was not fed properly, beaten and sexually abused for about ten years. I have never questioned the morality of my money. I would imagine it’s the kind of question people ponder that haven’t had to overcome any kind of really horrendous strife apart from the usual ups and downs of life.

The thing is, people can get a bit indignant if you suggest that their success might be at least partly down to luck, probably because they think that you mean job opportunities just fell into their lap, or that they got jobs they weren't really intelligent, qualified, hatd-working or talented enough to merit. Whereas I'm meaning luck in terms of genes, upbringing and which country and family you were born into.

One of my parents spent 2 years in an isolation hospital as a child, visits were evidently once a week by their parents at a window. This affected their education & socialization with other people forever. Their health was subsequently poor
Healthcare has changed for the better over time

However, my parents encouraged & supported my education to university level

I have in turn progressed well & have taken opportunities that have occurred

I am sure that everyone has their own story to tell

I know people who don't work too for a variety of reasons. This it seems is due to their health & their life choices

@lazylinguist

The thing is, people can get a bit indignant if you suggest that their success might be at least partly down to luck, probably because they think that you mean job opportunities just fell into their lap, or that they got jobs they weren't really intelligent, qualified, hatd-working or talented enough to merit. Whereas I'm meaning luck in terms of genes, upbringing and which country and family you were born into.

But then people can also get indignant if you objectively say, 'I'm intelligent and hard working, and am well paid as a result.'

Luck, deserving, morals... I just don't see how they really give any useful contribution to the situation.

Insisting that I'm lucky to have two highly intelligent parents who gave me good genes and an education-rich environment growing up doesn't change the outcome, and it would certainly be perverse to do negate what I've achieved because of it.

All we can do is look at what gives people the best outcomes and allow others to follow the same path.

(I am a bit 'law of the jungle' about this though. Life is inherently unfair, and one termite's nest gets wiped out by a flood whilst another stands etc. We're all animals at the end of the day, and wildlife crews famously don't intervene to correct the imbalances of natural life - so I wouldn't even say it's a foregone philosophical conclusion that we should make life fair. It's an abstract concept that humans haven't managed to successfully execute yet, and that might be because it's fundamentally incompatible with life on a planet for which 99.99% of species DON'T operate under the law of 'fair'.)

@PattyPan wow that's sobering, I wouldn't have expected mine to be so high.

Honestly? No, I don’t. I met a very very wealthy man and have a daughter with him- thats it.
Just happened to be in the right place, right time, reasonably pretty face, slim (pre-DD!) and outgoing personality. Also then happened to have sex in my fertile window one month into dating.

I grew up very comfortable and never worried about money but was aware I would need a career and didn’t expect the kind of wealth I’ve now been exposed to.
However, my relationship with my daughter’s father has since broken down spectacularly, I am having to make significant emotional sacrifices including on my own freedom to maintain a relationship with my DD and I feel bored- I don’t have a career and have little in common with other women my age.
If I had worked for my wealth/had a fabulous career, interesting life in my own right and independence then I would morally feel it is my right. However, it’s not all woe is me as I know I am extreme left fortunate to be able to do whatever I want to do with my DD when we are together!!
I think meritocracy is a myth really.

No. I don't. Listen to Tim Minchin's None Life Lessons. That sums it up for me.

www.google.com/search?q=nine+life+lessons+tim+minchin&oq=nine+life+less&aqs=chrome.0.0i457j69i57j0j0i22i30l3.10601j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I can't type. Nine Life Lessons.

It seems there are no hard and fast rules, this is what's coming out of this thread. And for your daughter @Valkadin, such a loss puts it all into perspective.

Well, I earn my money and work hard for it, I don't do anything immoral to earn it and I'm not lazy! However, the position I am in to be able to get my job and live here in the UK is largely due to luck - luck of being born to my parents who chose to settle in the UK. Nothing to do with anything I've done or earnt.

Honestly, have read most of the thread, there is a huge chasm between people who have chosen their routes through life, and those who have been the victims of circumstance. And, without prejudice, competence and composure plus intelligence make a big difference to where you end up.