To ask if you feel you morally deserve your wealth

[Nc1028]

No judgment, genuinely interested (and bored!)

Read about the idea that people want to have money but also want to believe that they morally deserve the money. For example, those who earned their wealth are more likely to believe they deserve it because of hard work, whereas those who inherited wealth are more likely to feel guilty. Stay-at-home partners also tended to feel guilty if their partners are high earners/have inherited wealth when they haven’t earned/inherited wealth themselves. Everyone try to emphasise on their productiveness, not wanting to be cast as “rich and lazy”.

Wondering what people think?
If you have money, do you think you deserve what you have?
Do you think people who have a lot more money deserve what they have?

(Light hearted. Yes your money is none of anyone’s business but money is such a taboo topic, fun to talk about)

[jessstan1]

My attitude is, if you have money, be glad. It's no fun being hard up and there's nothing to be guilty about whether you earn it or if you have a windfall. Money means you can look after yourself, your family if you have any and sometimes help others. It's a blessing! It's also a responsibility.

[Grooticle]

We’re millionaires.

I don’t really think of it in those terms.

We had opportunities, we had advantages. We also had challenges and disadvantages (some pretty serious).

We’ve worked very hard, and we’ve made choices to prioritise earning and saving over other things we could have done.

So our wealth is a product of our circumstances, abilities, life choices and a certain amount of luck.

It’s not something I feel we “morally deserve” more than other people who had different circumstances, or worse luck, and it’s not something to feel guilt about.

We have more money than I ever expected to, and it’s nice. Makes lots of things much easier. But it doesn’t really impact how I feel about my own morality, or worth as a person.

[Pinkandwhiteblossom]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. We are wealthy by national standards, but not so wealthy that big purchases don’t require careful consideration.

I don’t think we morally deserve it. We both work long hours in high pressured jobs in financial services, but I don’t think my level of pressure is worse than that of a nurse.

I do believe my taxes should be higher, and that people like me should pay more into the pot, so to offset that, I make pretty substantial contributions to a variety of organisations that help people that need it.

I like my job, and the benefits it brings but we don’t live a flashy life (car is 11 years old, kids in state school, holidays are self catering), so we can afford to give a portion away to people who need it more than we do

[BubblyBarbara]

Yes I worked hard for my money. I left secretarial school in the 70s and worked my way up in the marketing department of Benson and Hedges for some years. I could see the writing was on the wall with the various advertising bans and put my spare money into buying cheap housing in the north as and when I could in the early 90s. When the 90s and early 00s property boom occurred I had enough to sell up to put into a very big pension pot which I have only recently begun to withdraw, so I worked very hard and it paid off because of the property boom

[MyGazeboisLeaking]

It's an interesting question, OP, and you're right, as women, we should talk about finances a bit more openly that most do.

I deliberately chose a career that paid very well, and have put a lot of hours and training in to earn what is generally considered a is a high salary.

However - I was brought up in the South East, I'm educated, in the 90s I 'fit the mould' of what young up & coming looked like, so I had many advantages.

I don't feel I 'morally' deserve my circumstances at all but I don't feel I don't deserve it. Circumstances went my way and I made the very most of them.

[picklemewalnuts]

I consider my 'comfort' to be a result of having made careful decisions at various stages in my life. I have worked hard to be financially stable less through what I earn than through how I steward what I have. I've never had the day to day expenses many people have- coffee shop spends, haircuts etc. When we were first married we lived with significant hardship- no heating, little furniture- to manage our mortgage and pension payments.

I also recognise that a few strokes of bad luck and it could all have gone very differently, and know how hard it is to get out of a downward spiral- trouble breeds more trouble. It's much easier to make sensible long term choices when life is stable and comfortable.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

I'm not well off by Mumsnet standards (household income of £36,000) but tiny housing costs give us a lot of disposable cash.
I, in no way, feel I deserve it.
We're in this situation because DH's parents gave us a large deposit so its completely undeserved.
I see how much better we're living than everyone around us. Bedrooms for each child, heating on continously rather than just for an hour or two a day, food shopping without a budget.
And yet, we aren't better people. Far from it.
I'm really, really gratefull and aware of our privilege pretty much all the time.

[Oreservoir]

We are comfortably off. Most of the money is due to working and being sensible when our age group were living the high life.
The money I feel a bit guilty about is dh's inheritance, not large but a decent sum came from his parents home, an ex council house.
I feel that morally they should never have been able to buy it. We definitely benefited from an unfair policy.

[FlingingFlangingHardToOpen]

I’ve tied myself in knots about this recently as we’ve made money (not loads!) on a property sale enabling us to buy somewhere a bit better. It seems awful that I can afford that and that I was lucky enough to get on the ladder when I did. And property really seems to exacerbate this whole thing as the sooner you get on, the sooner you can ‘upgrade’ and make even more money. I’m moving to somewhere with a nicer school so my kid can do even better and hopefully start the game of life a couple of squares further on than I did, meanwhile other equally, or more good and clever people get trapped in a poverty cycle. I don’t know how to fix it. I don’t even feel able to disengage and refuse to play the game because it feels like disadvantaging my own child. Ultimately I believe redistribution of wealth is required although I do look to the billionaires and huge corporations of the world to lead this in a meaningful way eg fairer wages for low skilled workers and paying higher taxes.

[Dillo10]

I know what you mean by this - I bought my first home with a large deposit my parents gave to me. Married DH who had worked super hard for years to buy his first property. I feel kinda bad that we now both own half of each others if that makes sense. I don't feel like I've ever worked for anything substantial. Just day to day things, holidays etc.

[isitsnowingyet]

@Ilovesugar - aww - that was really kind paying for the shopping in Asda. Good for you.

I inherited from my parents - a good amount - which has enabled us to pay off the mortgage. I am grateful for this, but feel lucky that I have benifitted from this rather than 'morally' deserving it. My employment pension isn't enough to retire on, as I had been part time for several years while raising 3 kids... I will most likely be working at least til 65 if I can.

Us humans always seem to want more than we have, and it would be nice if I had enough money to retire properly at 60. Not happening, so will continue to work as a nurse which is quite a physical and at times emotionally drainining job.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

"I feel that morally they should never have been able to buy it. We definitely benefited from an unfair policy."

Yes, Our home is an ex council maisonette. I love it here but it shouldn't have been on the market for us to buy.
I'd like to donate it back to the housing association that now owns the estate. In our wills at least.

[WhySoSensitive]

I trained hard and worked harder and will never ever earn over £21k. I deserve more. Simple 😂

[Mustbe3ormorecharacters]

I have always been relatively well paid and recently become a high earner I also inherited when I was younger. I feel grateful I have been able to study and work the way I have, I don’t feel lucky to have inherited I would rather have the relatives back.

[upsidedownwavylegs]

It’s more that I feel sad that you need family wealth as substantial as ours to buy a family house in our area. Everyone deserves decent housing and good schools/amenities in a safe area.

[TrialOfStyle]

AgeLikeWine

My story isn’t far off yours - I started out in a council estate but my parents worked hard to pull us out. They were both school dropouts and didn’t care how I did at school - in fact they both scoffed at the idea of me going to uni (and I am still the only one from both sides who has gone to uni, let alone a Russell Group). The divorce started during my GCSEs. I spend some time homeless during my A Levels.

Does that make me more deserving of money? Did I really work so much harder? Well no. I really do attribute so much of life to luck - having the ‘right’ friends at the time, having a natural drive to reading and learning, falling into the ‘right’ job without knowing it. Everything was stacked against me but part of it was my personality, part the opportunities that popped up at the right time.

I’m no more deserving than someone who has worked equally but without the same types of attributes or luck.

[20shadesofgreen]

I am bloody lucky. My Dad came from an extremely large family where children emigrated to different country in their early teens and never came back again. My Dad did well for himself and I had it comparably easy. I have other issues in life, but money is not one of them particularly and I feel that is a complete stroke of luck.

[VinylDetective]

If wealth was based on who’s deserving the highest paid people would be care assistants.

[Ragwort]

I know that I am very lucky, I was raised in a family that valued education, I was encouraged to do my best, I had tutors to help me scrape through my O Levels, I went to Uni in the days when there were no fees and pretty generous grants. I had help with the deposit on my first property, I bought and sold at the right time so I made money on property and then moved to a low cost housing area so I could buy a very nice, mortgage free property. Much of this was "luck", interesting question as to whether I morally 'deserve' this. I genuinely don't know, I use my spare time to volunteer, I give to charity, try to be a 'good' citizen etc.

How do you decide what is "morally right" - I might choose to give £100 to charity, another person might choose to spend £100 on a restaurant meal, therefore supporting someone else's business, supporting employment opportunities etc etc.

Which is the 'better' moral choice ?

[PirateCatQueen]

Only reason we have anything that could be considered wealth is high house prices. I suspect a lot of people are the same in the UK.

It’s not even that we bought ages ago before prices went up (we didn’t) just high monthly payments mean our “wealth” is building up.

But it’s a false sense of wealth. We’re less stable and secure as a society with high house prices I think. Some people really struggle to keep a roof over their heads which I hate to see. I was homeless when younger after my parents split up and I know how hideous that feels.

Others are on a horrendous tread mill of paying high rents and having no security of tenure and very little control other the place they live.

Then others struggle for years to get in and stay in the property ladder. And once they’ve scraped onto it, they then have to worry about whether they’ll lose everything in the next crash. And their choices and lives are curtailed if they struggle to make payments.

Whole system is toxic and needs serious reform. More houses need to be built, better social housing, mortgage terms and regulation need to be better regulated, tenants need better protections.

So the one thing that gives us “wealth” I see as linked to a society that’s fundamentally broken.

[HavelockVetinari]

DH and I work really hard and earn quite a lot, but I don't think we work any harder than nurses or teachers. We're both academically clever, which has helped a lot, and is obviously something we didn't earn. We also both have supportive, loving parents and had a good upbringing - again, something that we didn't earn.

We're not super-rich or anything but we're very comfortably off. I suppose we don't really deserve it.

[irregularegular]

We're pretty well off. In our (late) 40s and 50s our net worth (inc pensions) is probably about 3 million now? 250k inheritance. Two equal above-average-but- not- super-high incomes. Good work pension, good pension saving. Lots of value house having entered market in 1994. Never been very extravagant - no private school, nannies, new cars...Minimal time off for kids.

I think we've been extremely lucky. Not least because we're never sought money at all. We both could have pursued higher paid jobs. We've pretty much followed our interests and it turned out to be quite well rewarded. We're both academics with the odd bit of private work on the side.

Do I think that we "deserve" more money that most. No not at all. It's really just good luck and some talent (but that is also basically luck).

[beatrixpotterspencil]

can I get it over with? bit o' MN sarcasm.

"sorry not sorry I am so considerably richer than you"
"we are so lucky lucky lucky hubby earns 8 figure salary"
"I have smooch empathy for the poor"

These threads are usually an open doorway for a tsunami of bragging, justification and judgement, on all sides of the coin.

I can go to sleep now

[caringcarer]

@Ilovesugar I paid for a poor woman with toddler at Aldi to get a packet of nappies and a ready meal. She tried 2 different cards and both declined. Cost less than £7 but she was so grateful. I have never forgotten how hard it is to make money stretch when you have small children.

[Orangeboots]

It's complicated. I was a SAHM for 14 years, dh is a high earner. At times I felt guilty and at times I didn't. We started our own business a few years ago and I've got more and more involved, we have been fairly successful - I like to think we have been ethical in our approach and the way we treat people who work for us. But I don't think we deserve excessive wealth and I don't think people deserve to be poor. We (mostly dh) have worked hard but we have been very fortunate in many ways.