Page 27 | To think I wasn't being a dick?

GlummyMcGlummerson · 2020-11-29T15:02:02+00:00

I split up with exH 2 years ago, we have 2DC aged 4&8 and when they're at ex's they still see their cousins and aunty, my exSIL. ExSIL has only contacted me once since the split - to remind me to get her son (DN) a present (I refused said it was Ex's job now) - never checked to see I was ok after her brother had an affair. Anyway, her DS is 7 and over lockdown I allowed DD (8) to use my phone to face call him and play Minecraft with him at the same time on my iPad. DN has his own iPad but he uses his parent's Facebook messenger accounts to face call DD. Now we're back to normality, and school, I let DD have 3 hours in total on a weekend, split however she likes from Friday evening to Sunday. She used most of it on Friday after school, so that's her time used up. But DN has called (which came through to both my phone and iPad) 23 times. I didn't answer either as they've been in another room most of the day. I also had nuermous messenger messages like "DD call me now" and "Why aren't you calling you're upsetting me". I did reply sorry DD won't be having screen time today, but he still kept calling. Anyway, I texted exSIL on the number I still have for her and said "Hi it's Glummy, can you stop DN from calling my messenger please, DD isn't allowed her iPad today and he's called 23 times today". She replied saying "OK but there's no need to be a dick about it he just misses DD that's all"[confused] I don't think what I said was dickish at all. I'm tempted to reply and ask what she means. I haven't yet, but it's really bothered me. There's no backstory we got on fine when I was married to her brother but she firmly nailed her colours to the mast when we split (except when she wanted her son to get a birthday present, apparently that was still my job and if left to ex he wouldn't have got one [hmm])

5863921l · 02/12/2020 16:18

as if little girls matter up until they’re 17 years and 364 days old, then the next day they’re shoved right down to the bottom of the pecking order.

This one. I don't think you're right about any aspect of this. Not going to argue it with you.

Original poster

GlummyMcGlummerson · 02/12/2020 16:20

@5863921l as in you don’t think sexism against women exists or just that it starts much earlier?

OP posts:

bloodyhairy · 02/12/2020 16:31

You sound a bit cold to be honest, but I guess you didn't actually do anything wrong as such.

Carriemac · 02/12/2020 16:47

I'd block him. Clearly has no boundaries and SIL is the dick in this scenario.

DarthKaren · 02/12/2020 16:55

Should of let them speak for 10 minutes it wouldn’t of hurt!!!!!!

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 16:56

[quote GlummyMcGlummerson]@5863921l as in you don’t think sexism against women exists or just that it starts much earlier?[/quote]
I don't think that's a great example. A man being in a ladies loo is far less inappropriate than a girl being n the man's. It isn't sexism, it's to do with the age. Unless you believe boys shouldn't be allowed in the ladies either....

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 18:42

A man being in a ladies loo is far less inappropriate than a girl being n the man's. It isn't sexism, it's to do with the age. Unless you believe boys shouldn't be allowed in the ladies either....

Adult man in a women only space with girl child = fine
Adult woman in women only space with boy child = fine
Adult man in men only space with girl child = not fine

Why?

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 19:06

@CalishataFolkart

A man being in a ladies loo is far less inappropriate than a girl being n the man's. It isn't sexism, it's to do with the age. Unless you believe boys shouldn't be allowed in the ladies either....

Adult man in a women only space with girl child = fine
Adult woman in women only space with boy child = fine
Adult man in men only space with girl child = not fine

Why?

Because ladies toilets don't have urinals

obviously

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 19:49

But they do have women in them. I thought that was why there is such a debate about self-identifying, non-passing transgender women using the women’s toilets. It’s always presented as though women are doing all sorts of private feminine things they would be uncomfortable doing if they thought there was a man there. Presumably the adult man would get the girl child into a cubicle as quickly as possible. If that’s fine in a women’s toilet it should be fine in the men’s.

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 19:57

@CalishataFolkart

But they do have women in them. I thought that was why there is such a debate about self-identifying, non-passing transgender women using the women’s toilets. It’s always presented as though women are doing all sorts of private feminine things they would be uncomfortable doing if they thought there was a man there. Presumably the adult man would get the girl child into a cubicle as quickly as possible. If that’s fine in a women’s toilet it should be fine in the men’s.

Women doing 'private personal things ' are not the same as a fully grown man with his penis out peeing.

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 20:00

Facing into a wall rather than waving it around presumably?

Original poster

GlummyMcGlummerson · 02/12/2020 20:03

@Wheresmykimchi this was argued on the thread I mentioned, several men came in to say that penises are not waved about and the worse a little girl will see is a man’s back.

Totally inappropriate for a man to be in the ladies loo. Presumably little boys can go into the gents? If they can then so can the little girls for the same reason.

OP posts:

5863921l · 02/12/2020 20:23

the worse a little girl will see is a man’s back

You don't know that.

FFS.

If it's not a big deal and there are no safeguarding issues for a little girl being with a group of men in that setting with no problems whatsoever to her personal boundaries or risk level, then clearly one embarassed daddy who is not even using the facilities poses a group of women no threat. If a small female child is safe with a group of men, a group of women are safe with one man who has a perfectly valid reason for being there.

That said, I know a man who had a very unpleasant experience in the gents as a child. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going in to that space and I would prefer to encounter a father in a women's space than have a little girl in the gents. Probably be fine, might well make her feel deeply uncomfortable and that's without knowing her previous experiences. She could have any number of valid reasons for finding it particularly difficult to go in there and I wouldn't expect her dad to have to share that. Nor would I expect women to necessarily look out for a little girl on her own in the ladies. We're not all lovely, unfortunately. As an adult, I'd rather feel uncomfortable. Women's toilets have the benefit of cubicles so no one is visible in a private act.

I don't think children are genderless and yes, I think it is harder for a little girl to be forced to go into the gents than a little boy. As a child, I would have found it invasive and distressing to be in the gents. The idea of then having to take my pants down and go to the bathroom myself in that space would have been very, very hard. I would prioritise that. There is a world of difference between some random bloke being in a female space for no reason and a father accompanying his child.

A close family member is a single father to a little girl, tragically. It is very hard for a little girl not to have a mother and society does not help. This dilemma is the tip of the iceberg. And yes, it does matter and yes, things like this do hurt.

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 20:26

[quote GlummyMcGlummerson]@Wheresmykimchi this was argued on the thread I mentioned, several men came in to say that penises are not waved about and the worse a little girl will see is a man’s back.

Totally inappropriate for a man to be in the ladies loo. Presumably little boys can go into the gents? If they can then so can the little girls for the same reason.[/quote]
I think you will find the vast majority of little boys in the women's.

What would a man see in the ladies loo outside of a cubicle thats so precious

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 20:27

@CalishataFolkart

Facing into a wall rather than waving it around presumably?

Not really the point ?

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 20:40

Not really the point ?

Why mention it then? Look, I don't know the answer to this really and I am swayed both ways. It just feels as though a single father should be able to take his daughter into the men's toilets and if there is a problem with that it lies with the men. That seems to be the issue - women have to make way for a man because of other men's behaviour. Whether it is safe, whether a traumatised woman will be triggered by encountering a man, however valid his reason for being there, men create a problem that it falls to women to solve.

It would be nice if we could all chill out about the damn toilets and just get on with it.

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 20:41

@CalishataFolkart

Not really the point ?

Why mention it then? Look, I don't know the answer to this really and I am swayed both ways. It just feels as though a single father should be able to take his daughter into the men's toilets and if there is a problem with that it lies with the men. That seems to be the issue - women have to make way for a man because of other men's behaviour. Whether it is safe, whether a traumatised woman will be triggered by encountering a man, however valid his reason for being there, men create a problem that it falls to women to solve.

It would be nice if we could all chill out about the damn toilets and just get on with it.

Because regardless of what he's doing with it, I don't believe children should be in there seeing grown men peeing. Facing the wall or not.

But I agree with the rest of your post

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 20:42

@CalishataFolkart

Not really the point ?

Why mention it then? Look, I don't know the answer to this really and I am swayed both ways. It just feels as though a single father should be able to take his daughter into the men's toilets and if there is a problem with that it lies with the men. That seems to be the issue - women have to make way for a man because of other men's behaviour. Whether it is safe, whether a traumatised woman will be triggered by encountering a man, however valid his reason for being there, men create a problem that it falls to women to solve.

It would be nice if we could all chill out about the damn toilets and just get on with it.

The last bit I mean.

Having re tread the middle - I can't agree with the endless man bashing.

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 20:56

Having re tread the middle - I can't agree with the endless man bashing.

Ok, just for clarity, if men's toilets just had cubicles instead of urinals would it be ok for a man to take his daughter in there?

If the only problem is that a female child can see a man who is urinating and there is no safeguarding issue of having a little girl in the same room as a group of men then let's do away with urinals and solve the problem.

(I don't think there is a safeguarding issue but it was mentioned above - "If it's not a big deal and there are no safeguarding issues for a little girl being with a group of men in that setting with no problems whatsoever to her personal boundaries or risk level,")

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 21:01

@CalishataFolkart

Having re tread the middle - I can't agree with the endless man bashing.

Ok, just for clarity, if men's toilets just had cubicles instead of urinals would it be ok for a man to take his daughter in there?

If the only problem is that a female child can see a man who is urinating and there is no safeguarding issue of having a little girl in the same room as a group of men then let's do away with urinals and solve the problem.

(I don't think there is a safeguarding issue but it was mentioned above - "If it's not a big deal and there are no safeguarding issues for a little girl being with a group of men in that setting with no problems whatsoever to her personal boundaries or risk level,")

I'm saying yes. But I'm not sexist , I can't handle the pearl clutching about a man going into a room full of women either. I really can't.

CalishataFolkart · 02/12/2020 21:17

I'm saying yes. But I'm not sexist , I can't handle the pearl clutching about a man going into a room full of women either. I really can't.

I don't think it's sexist to acknowledge that some women have good reason for wanting to have single-sex spaces where they won't unexpectedly encounter a man. I don't think it's sexist or "man-bashing" to acknowledge that there are situations where women end up modifying their behaviour due to the actions of some men. I do agree that there is a degree of pearl-clutching and what-iffing about what women get up to in a public toilet that renders it some kind of sanctified space.

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 21:18

@CalishataFolkart

I'm saying yes. But I'm not sexist , I can't handle the pearl clutching about a man going into a room full of women either. I really can't.

I don't think it's sexist to acknowledge that some women have good reason for wanting to have single-sex spaces where they won't unexpectedly encounter a man. I don't think it's sexist or "man-bashing" to acknowledge that there are situations where women end up modifying their behaviour due to the actions of some men. I do agree that there is a degree of pearl-clutching and what-iffing about what women get up to in a public toilet that renders it some kind of sanctified space.

Maybe men want a male only place where they don't encounter a woman....

I just hate this theory that in every place there is a traumatised or abused woman hiding. All men are not responsible for that so why are they punished for it.

justilou1 · 02/12/2020 22:41

Men get fucking sheds and workplaces where women are expected to “man up”.... fuck men. They need to adjust their behaviour and turn into kinder, decent humans. Maybe be less rapey and misogynistic and be taught to think that perhaps the universe doesn’t revolve around them, perhaps?

Wheresmykimchi · 02/12/2020 23:17

@justilou1

Men get fucking sheds and workplaces where women are expected to “man up”.... fuck men. They need to adjust their behaviour and turn into kinder, decent humans. Maybe be less rapey and misogynistic and be taught to think that perhaps the universe doesn’t revolve around them, perhaps?

Catmaiden · 02/12/2020 23:22

What @justilou1 said