To think I wasn't being a dick?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

I split up with exH 2 years ago, we have 2DC aged 4&8 and when they're at ex's they still see their cousins and aunty, my exSIL. ExSIL has only contacted me once since the split - to remind me to get her son (DN) a present (I refused said it was Ex's job now) - never checked to see I was ok after her brother had an affair. Anyway, her DS is 7 and over lockdown I allowed DD (8) to use my phone to face call him and play Minecraft with him at the same time on my iPad.

DN has his own iPad but he uses his parent's Facebook messenger accounts to face call DD.

Now we're back to normality, and school, I let DD have 3 hours in total on a weekend, split however she likes from Friday evening to Sunday. She used most of it on Friday after school, so that's her time used up. But DN has called (which came through to both my phone and iPad) 23 times. I didn't answer either as they've been in another room most of the day. I also had nuermous messenger messages like "DD call me now" and "Why aren't you calling you're upsetting me". I did reply sorry DD won't be having screen time today, but he still kept calling.

Anyway, I texted exSIL on the number I still have for her and said "Hi it's Glummy, can you stop DN from calling my messenger please, DD isn't allowed her iPad today and he's called 23 times today". She replied saying "OK but there's no need to be a dick about it he just misses DD that's all" I don't think what I said was dickish at all. I'm tempted to reply and ask what she means. I haven't yet, but it's really bothered me. There's no backstory we got on fine when I was married to her brother but she firmly nailed her colours to the mast when we split (except when she wanted her son to get a birthday present, apparently that was still my job and if left to ex he wouldn't have got one )

I split up with my ex in September 2017. At Christmas I bought them presents. He bought them nothing. I asked why. He thought we were doing joint presents! With me spending all the money! (I'm on benefits as I'm a carer for our disabled son) WTF! I also bought presents for his other children (adults, from his first marriage) and he didn't. Those presents were from me, because I care for them very much.

No way would I be buying for the rest of his family. He can sort it out, or not, but it's not my responsibility now we're separated. Considering they haven't bothered with my kids for years I don't really care if he forgets them.

YANBU OP. And YANBU about screen time either, 3 hours sounds plenty for an 8 year old. You are not the dick in this situation!

At age 7 /8 do they really need online gaming ?( genuine question)

Not that you need my opinion as you’ve already had so many but just wanted to say that I think it was your exSIL who handled things badly in this scenario but... there are plenty of parents who would’ve done the same as her, trust me. If i were her & had received your message, I would cringed with embarrassment at the “23 calls” but I would’ve replied “so sorry, won’t happen again” I would’ve resented the mention of the amount of calls, but I would’ve internalised that, & explained to my son that you mustn’t ring anyone more than 3 times (that’s the rule for my two children). What she, has done like so many others do, is felt the embarrassment of it but then taken it out on you. We really should have some kind of parents code, that even if you think the other parent is talking nonsense about your little angel, just take it on the chin and carry on with your life Hopefully it doesn’t happen again OP

@stressfullday

At age 7 /8 do they really need online gaming ?( genuine question)

Some games are designed to be more fun when you play with other humans. (computer players are only as good as the programming) In the absence of a sibling in the same house, somebody you know in real life rather than strangers on the Internet is the next best thing.

I'm a bit amazed that people even consider you should be buying gifts for your exH family members on his behalf! Who's paying for then for one thing?! If it's supposed to be from your children to the nephew, then they can tell their father what they want to get him and he can buy it. what happens if the SIL has more children, are you supposed to buy gifts for them too even if you've never met them? Every divorce is different, some might choose to carry on buying because they want to and/or remain close to the other family, but I can't see why there would be an obligation for you to do the buying! What if you remarry and have another child? Are you then responsible for sourcing gifts for your family, your new husband's family (as they would be your child's niece/nephew/whatever) AND your Ex husband's family?! Who has the time and money for all this?!

Going back to your original question, your answers will always come across as being a dick (as will hers to you). You don't like each other and aren't bothered with pleasantries. While I don't think your reply was twattish as such, if your ex-SIL had posted from her point of view, I would have probably agreed with her that you were a dick.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Again, someone please answer - at what point do we expect men to be responsible for basic things like buying presents for their family. Why is the default that a woman does it for them?

Probably about 14.

Your exH should never have got away with leaving the grown up stuff to you tbh during the marriage or after.

And it sounds like it is clear to both of you that you and your exH’s sister don’t get along. I’m sure if we heard her side of the story it’d be more obvious that you’re both behaving like dicks.

Open/honest + short = rude

I actually think you should ‘hun it up’ precisely because you don’t get on. I’m nice/civil to people I don’t like but can’t go NC with. I’m open and honest with people I like and want to invest time with, that way my honesty doesn’t get misconstrued. Would you be as abrupt with a work colleague that you didn’t get on with? Especially knowing that it would antagonise them? Ofc you could... but you know you would be a dick for doing it.

Your dc seem to get on and that’s a good thing. They’re family even if the mothers are not. Suck it up and hun it up.

Where is this infantilisation of men?

It's when the situation of "A little boy no longer gets a present because his uncle can't be arsed getting one for him now the wife's gone" is presented, the suggestion isn't "the only person to rectify this is the uncle", it's "oh well there's a woman who should behave nicely and should get one for him. It's the implication that men are so useless we needn't even bother pulling them up on their selfishness and laziness.

OP is divorced from him so any gifts etc would be from her, not her ex, not covering for him, etc.

Oh, so my meanness isn't about covering up for exH's shortfall, but for simply not getting a present at all for a child you think I should continue to have in my life?

So by that logic, it is mean to not get a present for every child in my life I know and care for - including the kids I teach and DC's school friends, for example. Because it's NOT about the covering up, right, it's about the gesture.

I can imagine you will say "no of course not" and it's because DN has one less gift - in which case it IS about the lack of present from DN and the fact I'm not compensating for that. So which is it?

I understand from reading through this thread that in cases of divorce you do in fact have ex-aunts etc, I would think though if there is a relationship there or any familial feeling or love, you'd continue to be an aunt regardless of divorce, subsequent remarriages, etc. In this case there is no such relationship which is fair enough. I just think the ex and what he does or doesn't do is a bit of a red herring, OP chooses not to engage with DN and doesn't see him as a nephew any longer

Tell me, does your view on staying in your ex's family, buying gifts etc, only extend to married couples going through divorce? What about non married couples who were together 20 years? What about those who split up after six months? What are your rules there?

Given all these mind boggling rules people have to circumnavigate, can we not just agree that, during and after the relationship, each person should just buy for their own family?*
*
all the stuff about wife work is irrelevant really.

It isn't when I'm being expected to carry on doing presents because exH refuses to.

Why posters have to make assumptions about internalised misogyny, commodifying women, infantilising/excusing men, or simply wanting to jump on someone because it's AIBU, I'm not sure.

Probably because this thread reeks of misogyny, male infantilisation and women being commodities
.

I've changed my view on the gift giving as OP and others have made clear that this is not 'a thing' and the aunt by marriage relationship is not expected to continue after a divorce. I don't share those feelings but I respect that it's different for other people. It's the harping about doormats etc that annoys me. It's nothing to do with that.

Do you think it's a coincidence that you keeping referring to the mean ex-aunty who won't buy gifts but not the mean ex-uncle?

Do you think it's a coincidence that you keeping referring to the mean ex-aunty who won't buy gifts but not the mean ex-uncle?

Quite. It takes a special kind of meanness to see your nephew in the flesh regularly, accept a gift from his sister and not have a reciprocal gift prepared. I find it amazing that SIL wouldn't say something- most people can joke with their siblings about being a tight arse/lazy bones.

Also I want to say @RosyPickle that your position of "You should stay in the family after the divorce" comes from a place of tremendous privilege. 1 in 4 women in the U.K. are victims of domestic violence. Some of them manage to escape marriages, and the abuse does not end there. And it's not a Hollywood movie - people don't side with the good guy and shunt he bad guy. Families enable abusive men all the time, even more so if custody battles.

My friend was in a violent marriage where her husband regularly raped her. She had the bravery to leave and he took her to court to gain full custody of the kids whose birthdays we rarely even remembered. It wasn't about them, it was about getting one over on my friend. His mum testified that my friend was the abusive one. Luckily the judge saw right through them all and my friend secured sole custody and a non-molestation order. Should she carry on being pally with the ex ILs who are willing to throw her under the bus? Is she mean if she doesn't get his (school aged) siblings, the children of the very mother who lied about her, birthday presents?

My friend's situation is not a rare one. Claiming women are obliged to stay in the lives of their exes, lest they be meanies, isn't just pig ignorant it's downright dangerous.

YANBU and Ex DH should pull his finger out and buy his nephew a gift

I actually think you should ‘hun it up’ precisely because you don’t get on. I’m nice/civil to people I don’t like but can’t go NC with. I’m open and honest with people I like and want to invest time with, that way my honesty doesn’t get misconstrued. Would you be as abrupt with a work colleague that you didn’t get on with? Especially knowing that it would antagonise them? Ofc you could... but you know you would be a dick for doing it

Your dc seem to get on and that’s a good thing. They’re family even if the mothers are not. Suck it up and hun it up

Fuck. That.

I stopped a long time ago being kind to people who treat me like shit. I know some people think "hunning it up" somehow gives them the upper hand that their opposition will be all humble at their grace and humility. But it doesn't - you only ever look like a total spineless mug, and they're laughing at you.

And it's nothing like being short with a work colleague. Being short with exSIL doesn't impact my professional life in anyway, I have nothing to lose if I piss her off. I would navigate a professional relationship a different way because my job depends on it.

Yes our DC are cousins - linked through DN's mum and my DD's dad. The brother and sister. There's no need for me to be a part of any of it any more.

@TicTacTwo

Do you think it's a coincidence that you keeping referring to the mean ex-aunty who won't buy gifts but not the mean ex-uncle?

Quite. It takes a special kind of meanness to see your nephew in the flesh regularly, accept a gift from his sister and not have a reciprocal gift prepared. I find it amazing that SIL wouldn't say something- most people can joke with their siblings about being a tight arse/lazy bones.

Remember it's not mean if you have a penis!

Urgggh, I hate when people ‘hun’ it up with people I know damn well they loathe, have the courage of your convictions.

Exactly @Feministicon - it's also highly insulting to one's intelligence to sugar coat conflict. Put your big girl pants on, assert your boundaries and say how you feel.

Wow, you are just determined to tell me what I think aren't you? And of course, you know precisely zero about me or whatever privilege I'm speaking from.

For the avoidance of doubt, no, I don't think women should stay in the lives of their abusive exes.

Fwiw I actually didn't think you were a dick at the start of this thread.

@RosyPickle I'm just pointing out your inconsistencies.

Either you think I should cover for my exH's shortfalll WRT a gift for his nephew, or you think it's mean to not buy all children you care for a birthday gift. Which is it?

TBH I think now for you, you've taken a disliking to me and you are digging your heels in without making much sense.

Good god.
I cannot believe that anyone would think calling or messaging someone 23 times is acceptable.
Bloody hell if someone did that to me I would ask them wtaf is going on. The ONLY acceptable reason to call that many times would be if someone extremely close to me had died.
The nephew sounds like a total brat. Doesn't anybody parent their own children these days?
For Pete's sake this is not acceptabke. The ex sil needs to grow up she sounds like a complete dick. As For The present I'd tell her to go fuck herself. No wonder her kid is behaving the way he does.

No, what's happening is that you're jumping on every post I make and making ridiculous counter examples that have nothing to do with your actual situation. 'Every child you care about' is not your DN. Your exSIL isn't even relevant but you keep asking if I think you should think of her as family. You describe her as a fishwife, which is misogynistic. You've implied that I think women who've been abused should suck it up and be nice to their abuser's family. You've described me as pig ignorant and a doormat so forgive me if I don't count fangirl over your amazing boundaries etc. I literally just said I thought it was mean you didn't get your nephew a gift, I've subsequently said fair enough if you don't see it as your role or whatever. I really don't care what you do, but your sanctimonious screeds and whataboutery are just tedious nonsense. What if they have ten more children? What if I decide not to bother with my sibling's children? What if my ex starts a polyamorous commune and wants me to throw them a party?

Anyway, this is just an unedifying waste of my time, so I'm out.

OMG what did I just read. OP, like a pp, I think I love you too. Such a nice change to see an OP not simpering that she is a people pleaser and that she hates confrontation, and to stand up for herself and her DD.

I will look for your other thread, OP. Is your ex still with the 17yo?

@Bagamoyo1

OP if you are so sure you’re in the right, why did you post on AIBU?

Loosely translates as; 'How dare you post on AIBU if you refuse to take a good kicking?'

@RosyPickle but you can't make a statement like "you're mean not to buy a present for your exH's nephew when exH won't" and not have it challenged. Because it does raise questions about "where to stop"a This forum is for debating - it's an entirely relevant example, and like it or not yours is a sexist statement to make but you simply wouldn't say it to a man.

You say you think it's mean of me not to get a present for DN - but, apparently, not because exH won't, but because "he's your nephew". Aside from the fact that that isn't your determination to make, he is no longer my nephew. Yes I could get him a present "from me" because we have history - the same way I could get a present for DC's school friends. But I don't, because - well, why would I? Why would I buy for any child I don't feel it's my obligation to?

I never said you were unsympathetic towards abused women, I said your point of "oh wouldn't it be lovely if ex wives just stayed in their exILs lives" doesn't take so much into account - and yes it's ignorant and borne From a place where everyone gets along, when in reality it's not how it works.

Again, you never ever once mention the mean ex-uncles - there's a reason for that.

Is your ex still with the 17yo?

No, he isn't. I often think about her and how she must feel and how she will feel when she's older and looks back. I do hope she is ok and I'm pleased she didn't get sucked into anything serious with him.

I mean it would have been no life for a 17yo to be buying presents for nephews and nieces, some of whom are older than her, for her almost 40yo boyfriend. I put up with that shit for way too long I wouldn't wish it on anyone

I'm glad she's not with him anymore. Do you think he regrets destroying his family? It sounds like you are well shot of him.

@Meraas yes, he does. He's begged for another chance after the teenage love affair fizzled out. It was a hard no. But do you know what, if it was a work colleague or a ONS with a woman his age or something then maybe I could have considered possibly taking him back as I did love him deeply despite the manchild thing. But she was 17. A teenager. It makes me physically sick and it terrified me that I stayed for so long with a predatory creep. That he thinks being almost 40 and sleeping with someone who is it legally an adult - that's scares the shit out of me. Leaving was the best thing I ever did. And I am pleased he regrets it - he should.